Chicago White Sox

I don't see how anyone could honestly think he was just catfished. Even if he was somehow duped originally, he's been lying about it for a long ass time. I'm going with the Manti is gay theory, that the online girlfriend was used for cover from teammates, but it was actually his boyfriend all along (we already know Tuiasosopo was running the twitter acount). Then something happened to their relationship and for some reason they or Tuiasosopo decided to kill the online persona off. Now Manti is committed to this lie or risk being outed prior to the NFL draft. There is at least some logic to this theory. I can't even begin to comprehend why he wouldn't have come out with the truth already if he was simply catfished by Tuiasosopo or some people.

And this isn't about whether or not he will completely fall apart, it's about the fact that they'll be paying Prince $24 million a season for several years when he's outside of his prime. To think he'll be anywhere close to the same player he is now, when he's 34, 35, & 36 seems crazy to me. I get why the Tigers signed him, but these 9 & 10 year contracts are going to end badly. Just look at the Arod deal. I'm sure the Tigers know there will be repercussions down the road for immediate benefit Prince provides.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 11:19 PM) Nope, they've spent a lot more unwisely over the last decade than the White Sox. However, having Verlander, Scherzer, Cabrera, Austin Jackson and now Fielder cancels out a majority of the stupid financial decisions they've made.... Fielder will quickly turn into a stupid financial decision.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 05:10 PM) I'm not mad at all. In my opinion, it shows that it's small risk/small reward outfit. The value of the asset has gone up 2900% If the Sox decided to take a $60-70M loss over some future three year period my guess is as a worse case scenario they'd make it up in franchise value. One of the reasons that isn't going to happen is because Chairman Reinsdorf has always been at the forefront of holding the line on player salaries. Franchise value cash flow, you don't seem to get this. The Sox owners don't want to finance their losses by selling their stakes in the team.

Also, let's clarify how Forbes describes "Operating Income": To claim the Sox made $175 million is definitely not true. And quite frankly, no one here knows enough about their capital structure, their financing needs, and their tax status to say how much net income the sox made with any level of certainty.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:42 PM) The point is the White Sox can easily afford a higher payroll than they claim. How many other teams could we say this about? Probably almost all of them. Are you mad that businessmen want some immediete return on their investment? I get it, we'd all love an owner that spends beyond the organization's means, but that is the exception not the rule. At the end of the day, the Sox are a business and are going to be run like one to some extent. If you don't like ownership's business model and corresponding product, then simply stop supporting it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) The Sox have very little debt to no debt. I don't know what they would "put the money back in" for (where does it show?). My guess is they take it as a dividend. What about the millions in player salaries? They may not be your typical liability, but they are guaranteed contracts and ultimately a claim against their assets. Having some cash and/or other liquid assets on hand is a good way to protect themselves in case your revenue structure changes.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) If they choose to put the money back in, then what are you b****ing about? Yeah, I don't even get Marty's point anymore. This is starting to sound like a baseless grudge against Reinsdorf.

I agree with you Balta, but the offense did play a role in our failures down the stretch. We went from one of the best teams with RISP to one of the worst. Even if you say it was regression to the mean, it demonstrates the streakiness of our offense, which is a real problem for us. We tend to score runs in big clusters and then have extended stretches with minimal production. So while we were 7th in baseball in total runs, we're not scoring them in a very efficient manner. Also, when the offense goes cold for a long stretch, it puts a lot of pressure on the pitching staff, which is never a good thing.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 14, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) It depends on what your expectations are for this team. I think 77 wins is a reasonable expectation. I posted an article where Scott Boras gave a pretty good argument that team's should be at their historical high for payroll given that revenues are up 200% since 2000 and franchise values have skyrocketed. No reason to believe the Sox couldn't add $25M to their payroll with ease. How many teams are actually up 200% or anywhere close that number though? I'd be willing to guess that number is highly skewed by some major TV deals for a couple premier franchises.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:29 PM) Are you saying longterm? Current ownership is very conservative, small risk/small reward type. I believe the Sox are a sleeping giant that a new owner with fresh ideas and who builds a team that has "sustained success", would put 32-33,000 in the seats every night. What exactly do you think ownership does other than approve financial-related decisions and choose a GM? The vision of the organization is up to the GM and now the team president and I definitely wouldn't use conservative to describe KW. In fact, KW was probably the most aggressive GM in baseball during his tenure. Now we're going with a more stats-oriented GM, who should have plenty of fresh ideas. So what it all comes down to is that you're pissed Reinsdorf runs his business like a business and doesn't spend more than he makes. I don't know what to tell you, but if that's your beef then maybe sports shouldn't be your hobby. You'll be waiting a long time if you expect Reinsdorf to not only sell the team, but to also sell to a Mark Cuban like owner who will run the team like an expensive little toy.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) It seems to me that taking an OC position in the NFL would be a more logical step than a HC? I think it's pretty clear that Trestman wanted to become an NFL head coach and felt that some HC experience, regardless of type, would help him get there. I guess I don't see why people are so confused about this. We see guys in baseball become minor league managers rather than be major league assistants, because they feel it's the best way to prove they have the skills to be a successful major leave manager. You can question why he chose the CFL over the NCAA, but I think he simply went the CFL route because the opportunity presented itself first. Regardless, he's been both a successful CFL head coach and NFL coordinator. If anything, he should have an edge over other coordinator candidates because he's shown he can actually run a team. I'm not saying Trestman should be the choice, but if Emery ends up going with him, I definitely wouldn't be upset.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) Just wanna put my Justin Upton idea here in Pale Hose Talk for those who dont wander in to the Diamond Club...I think its pretty genius and I want it to be seen by the masses =p In reference to Upton using his NTC for a deal with the M's... Discuss here. You think we're getting the 29th ranked propsect in baseball plus more for Rios? I think Rios has value and could probably get you one good prospect (low top 100 maybe) right now, but there are still red flags with him and teams won't give up a ton until he proves 2012 wasn't a fluke. If he does that, then we should be able to get more for him, but a top 30 prospect still seems extremely unlikely IMO.

I can understand people blaming the GM, the manager, and/or the players for our failures in recent years, but the owner? Really?? I'll admit Reinsdorf shouldn't have let the Guillen-KW fued last as long as it did and obviously his inability to go over-slot in the draft hurt us (which is no longer an issue), but other than those two things he's been perfectly fine as an owner. It's not like we're talking about Loria or Angelos here.

Do people realize that spending on the draft and international amateur free agents is capped now? The ability to complete a legitimate rebuild is significantly limited now, because teams can no longer take resources for the major league team and use them in these areas. All the examples I've read on this site of successfully rebuilding are the result of spending big money on the draft and Latin America. If you can no longer outspend your competition and stockpile a ton of high-end talent during a given draft or signing period, then you'll struggle to build an elite system in a short amount of time. High draft picks alone simply won't cut it. This is baseball, not the NBA. Let's be real here, a true rebuild would take us 4-5 years minimum given the shape our current system (BA ranks us 29th). And that's the best case scenario, just look at the Royals & Pirates if you want to see two examples of rebuilding gone wrong, and those teams were able to abuse the old system. Imagine how bad it can with capped spending now.

If Paulie is not brought back for 2014, then I think you move Dunn to 1B and consider going with a rotating DH. I think there is nothing wrong with having four solid outfielders split time at DH if you have the right personal. For example, keep our existing outfield and throw Trayce Thompson (assuming he develops) in the mix, who should be able to play all three positions.

This website is so comical. Almost everyone here wrote off 2012 before the season even started, then the team went out and was in 1st place for most of the season. Yes, they fell short in the end, finishing 3 games behind the Tigers despite a higher run differential (5th in AL). The primary reasons for the collapse IMO was a tired rotation, a lack of clutch hitting down the stretch, and some rookie mistakes by Robin, three areas we can possibly improve in 2013. Obviously the Tigers have improved and should be the favorites. We probably need some things to go right for us or some things to go wrong for them to win the division. Considering the age of two of their big additions (Hunter & Martinez) and the innings their pitching staff logged last year, I think there is some reason for optimism of that front. Also, we can always win one of the wild-card spots. Baltimore did last year with a +5 run differential. To write off the 2013 White Sox at this point just seems so damn foolish to me. We all wish Hahn would go out and make an impact move, but we have more than enough talent to win the division.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 8, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) Konerko and Dunn's 2nd half OPS's were .772 and .729 respectively. Huge red flag for the 2013 offense for me. Those numbers tell me Konerko & Dunn sucked in the 2nd half last year, but they don't tell me why, which is pretty important if you plan on using them to predict future performance. As someone else mentioned, Konerko was injured last year and should be recovered from that injury by the start of next season. While I personally think he will regress some due to his age, I think he'll be way better than a .772 OPS player in 2013. Not as sure about Dunn, but it seems like he just failed to make adjustments from June on. Considering how bad he was in 2011 and how good he was in April & May of 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply too stubborn to make changes after that hot start last year. Trust me, I don't have a ton of confidence we'll ever see the Dunn who used to put up .900 OPSs, but I seriously doubt he'll be worse than an .800 OPS in 2013 (which is what he did in 2012). Overall, maybe they are a little worse in 2013, but I honestly don't expect much of a drop-off at all.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) Between AJ being gone, the fact that Ozzie Guillen not being around won't count for plus 3 wins again, the wear and tear on Peavy/Sale/Quintana, uncertainty over Danks' health, Flowers' bat, trepidation about Reed and Jones in the bullpen, about Keppinger holding up as an everyday player...and the improvements in the Tigers, Royals and Indians (on paper), it's probably not minus 8 but minus 3-5 realistically. And that's with Rios and Dunn putting up similar seasons to what they managed in 2012 offensively. Dunn didn't have a good season, so I'm not sure why people think he's unlikely to repeat his 2012 totals. Also, I think Robin made some rookie mistakes last year that cost us some games. We could win a few more in 2013 just from his natural development.

No matter what, interviewing Trestman shows that Emery is exploring all options, which can only be a good thing IMO.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) The Sox are that team in the middle that last offseason KW said he did not want to be. I don't think the next couple of years are going to be particularly fun to watch, but they have to wait until some contracts roll off the books to build an offense. Hopefully in that time they will have solidified their top 3 or 4 starters. We were 7th in runs scored last year, let's not pretend we have a bad offense. And let's be honest, this team's strength is its pitching and defense. We had one of the better defenses in baseball last year and it should only get better next season with the changes we've made. The starting pitching is the big wild card for us, but it has the potential to be one of the best in the game. People can continue to hate on this team if they want, but there's more than enough talent on the roster to win the division.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back? Did you see what free agent outfielders were going for in free agency?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 08:02 AM) Hahn has filled the holes the Sox have already. At least in terms of the major league roster. You may not like the guys he's filled them with, but if the season started today, they can field a full roster with an obvious starter and backup at each position, a rotation 6+ deep, and a full bullpen. Who is on the bench other than Gimminez & Wise?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) If the next-Gen consoles use key codes, they'll be hacked. I'm not worried about it. We live in a world of free software. Honestly, I don't feel guilty either. Let's hope they don't get hacked. Developers are losing millions to the used game market. With growing development costs, the incentive to create truly unique, epic game experiences is shrinking. Companies are simply afraid to take big risks, look at how many games have become serialized and how some series have even become annualized. If something sells the first go around, the big companies will pump out sequel after sequel with minimal improvement, look at the Assassin's Creed series after AC II. Sure, we have independent studios making some great stuff and I'm all for that. But I also want to play the next Bioshock, the next Dishonered, the next truly original, epic game with big-time production values. This isn't the music industry, vidieo game companies don't have the equivalent of concerts to fall back on. They need huge game sales to continue making new AAA games. Ending used game sales, at least for next-gen systems, would be a huge step in the right direction.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 2, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) I tend to agree, primarily due to these exact scarcity reasons. In theory, a 4 fWAR from a pitcher is the same as it is from a hitter, but consider that 43 offensive players put up a fWAR of 4 or better this year while only 18 pitchers did. The only way I am dealing Sale is in a deal for a Trout, Cano, McCutcheon. Stanton does have MVP potential, so it'd be tempting, but I do think I'd have to turn it down. I agree with this 100%. Additionally, you have to consider the impact such a trade would have on your chances in the playoffs. An ace can single-handedly carry a team in a short playoff series. Regular season value does not directly translate to playoff value and if the ultimate goal is to win the World Series, nothing should be more valuable than an legit ace come October.