Chicago White Sox

Has a first year manager ever been fired before year one was over?

“You don’t take it away from for 60 games” - Holy s%*# this dude is an absolute clown. Can’t wait for him and Hahn to be gone this off-season.

Seems like Jerry is destroying both the Bulls & White Sox simultaneously as his goodbye gift for Chicago.

@Y2Jimmy0 - Where do you think the Sox’s farm system ranks right now? Bottom 5? Bottom 3? It was generally considered a bottom 5 system entering the season and I can’t imagine it’s gotten based on the performances this year. Rick Hahn may end being the architect of a bottom 5 MLB team and bottom 5 farm system. That’s KC Royals levels of bad, which is actually quite amusing given we hired an inexperienced guy from their org to be our “win now” manager and gave the largest contract in franchise to their slap hitting, average defending LF.

Based on Baseball America’s current ranking, here are prospects in the 60 to 100 ranges for the four clubs mentioned above: Orioles: #68: Joey Ortiz (SS) #73: DL Hall (LHP) #74: Samuel Basello (CA) #77: Heston Kjerstad (RF) Rangers: #79: Owen White (RHP) #92: Luisangel Acuna (SS) Reds: #66: Cam Collier (OF) #70: Andrew Abbott (LHP) #90: Christian Encarnacion-Strand (3B) #93: Chase Petty (RHP) #97: Edwin Arroyo (SS) The Diamondbacks don’t have any guys in this range (multiple top 30), but Blake Walston (LHP) was a guy both BA & Keith Law considered a top 100 type prior to this season (ugly results in AAA this year). I wish there was a way to snag Alek Thomas by combining Giolito with other stuff, but probably wishful thinking there.

It’s insane how many teams need pitching this trade deadline. Giolito is going to command a top 100 prospect or interesting young player. Teams like the Orioles, Rangers, Diamondbacks, & Reds have the currency to get something done without it being too painful. Rick Hahn may be a complete boob, but even he can get a quality return in this market.

This team literally has no chance of winning the division when our pitching depth consists of Tanner fucking Banks and Jesse shitshow Scholtens. Even a garbage squad like the Oakland A’s is able to beat us up. A serious front office would see that along with a horrible flawed offense and quickly realize our fate is sealed. Do the right thing and blow this s%*# the F up!

We’re basically the big city Royals which is truly beyond pathetic.

I think if you trade Giolito you are waving the white flag. Just don’t see how you can rebound from that unfortunately with our complete lack of pitching depth.

Honestly, I struggle with assuming what that cut-off might be. Normally I’d agree that 5 games is the right number, but I think even Hahn realizes how flawed this offense is. Might need to be a bit closer than that to pass on selling what should be a really attractive trade chip in Giolito. I also hate the idea of completely standing Pat at the deadline. Usually you’re either buying or selling to some extent, but throwing more resources at this team seems foolish and is just stretching out the inevitable retool / rebuild.

In Rosenthal’s latest article, Ken believes we will ultimately be sellers and guys only controllable through next season could get moved. That’s fully aligned with my expectations, which is great news for us trolls & Cubs fans.

This is a “rebuild” thread…but truly appreciate your douchey, mindless contribution to it.

Harold - Is it fair to say we had a high-end pro scouting department under KW? I feel like the results speak for themselves during his tenure, but I recall there were some really well regarded scouts who seemed to have “retired” sometime after Hahn took over. Dave Yoakum is the only name I can recall at this time.

I think context is needed there. The Sox had a great season in 2006 and finished second, but unfortunately the pitching staff wore out and the playoff format at the time screwed us over. Finishing 4th in the worst division in pro sports despite spending $180M is a failure no matter how you slice it, unless…it leads to the firing of Rick Hahn. Then every single loss was worth it.

Got to disagree here. Our draft strategy was very questionable at times (the Broadway / McCulloch picks were terrible) but part of that was the result of Jerry’s refusal to go over slot. I think our player develop function was probably average or slightly below. It was simply a different time with much higher bust rates unfortunately. But our strength under KW was pro scouting. The dude and his staff were able to find diamonds in the rough and he was able to build multiple competitive teams that way. He wasn’t a great GM by any means, but he was leagues better than Hahn.

Jerry wants to win. I literally despise him as our owner, but I don’t believe he’s ok with 2nd to 4th place finishes year after year. The problem is he will only attempt to win in his own unique way, which requires being fiscally responsible and risk adverse. And a complete lack of accountability with his front office has caused our organization to fall behind the times. KW was actually a pretty good GM prior to the analytics revolution taking ahold of the game because he could scout and was willing to take some risks. But with analytics and other modern player development / scouting processes in place now, we simply can’t catch-up because our front lacks any real vision and is way too insular. Regardless, I don’t think Jerry is ok with cashing in checks until he leaves this world. At his age, the desire to win should be higher than ever, which is evident by top 10 payrolls the past two years. Unfortunately Rick just spent the funds in a horribly inefficient fashion.

Jerry is a smart guy, just insanely loyal. At some point, he can’t keep blaming the players and the coaches for our shortfalls. This was Hahn’s year to prove it was all Tony’s fault and as we are seeing the rot goes much deeper. Unless the Sox get hot and luck their way into the playoffs, I think Jerry will make a change. But if he’s unwilling to truly blow things up, it’s more likely Getz gets a chance as GM and is asked to retool on the fly. That I could see. I just think there is too much blood in the water amongst the fan base for Rick to get another year.

Fully agree. Pizza Man was a true legend. I hope one day we experience an owner like that.

Lol…I know Jerry said this, but hopefully he feels differently as a 87 year old who just spent close to $200M for said 4th place finish. If not, then only Father Time will fix this franchise.

Honestly, anything is possible with this org, but I do think Jerry is probably losing patience with Hahn. Supposedly we lost a ton of money last year and that was before the largest attendance drop in baseball. And if there is one thing Jerry hates it’s losing money. Beyond that, Hahn is finally running out of scapegoats. He can’t make his handed picked manager the fall guy for this fiasco of a season. For the first time in 10 years, I actually think a change at GM is possible. But to your point, will Jerry do an exhaustive search and hire a top talent from outside the organization or simply just elevate Chris Getz? Even if with a GM change we may end being in the same basic position. Just got to hope spending $180M on a 4th place product convinces Jerry the status quo isn’t working and structural changes are needed to fix this organization.

Thinking about this a bit further, this is the lineup I’d like to see next year if we go full rebuild and trade both Robert & Tim: 1B: Vaughn 2B: Moncada SS: Sosa 3B: Burger LF: Benintendi CF: FA / trade RF: Colas DH: Jimenez CA: FA / trade Yes, I realize a few guys are playing out of position to some extent (which most people will hate), but in a lost season let’s see what guys are capable of. My thinking is Moncada is more tradable if he can show some versatility and I see no reason he can’t handle 2B. We may as well give Burger a shot at 3B if wins don’t matter as even being passable there greatly improves his value. And that leaves Sosa at SS, which is not his ideal position, but playing there could help him if he ultimately ends up being a UT guy. I don’t see obvious options for C or CF, so either you get someone via trade (in one our sell-off deals) or sign some reclamation projects. Zero reason to spend big on free agents this upcoming off-season. Also, I’d commit to Eloy as a full-time DH and wouldn’t consider him in the field under any circumstance. We need to get him back to a 140 wRC+ hitter in hopes of eventually cashing him for something that better fits our timeline. I’d love to move Benintendi but I think he’s untradeable unless you eat the last year or two of his deal. I won’t even speculate on what our pitching staff might look like because it will likely be a complete s%*#-show no matter what we do.

And somehow only six games out. The 5th place team in the AL East would be the top team in the AL Central. Rick Hahn literally is up against the poorest and most incompetent organizations and can’t build a division winner. Imagine having $180M to spend and only being able to finish 4th in this s%*#-show. I’m praying that this level of embarrassment will finally result in the end of Rick’s reign of terror.

I think you gotta trade Lucas because the value will be too good to pass up. If you can get a top 100 prospect or more, you have to take that over a QO.

I believe they had Nightengale indirectly leak it

100% agree that Rick or KW can’t be afforded to make those trades. And I fully agree that trading Robert would both suck and be a huge risk, but the question will be whether you can win with him in the near-term and if a godfather package can be attained.