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QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Mar 18, 2010 -> 12:10 AM) He didn't pitch with any lingering effects from this accident. Really good to see. He is a game player. Definitely. He's barely even been here, but his attitude already has him as one of my favorite current Sox players.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Mar 17, 2010 -> 11:44 PM) The guy was considered the best CF in baseball for over a decade, is only 32, has lost 25 lbs and clearly has regained a step or two so I'm gonna go with the team of professional evaluators on this one... They are professional baseball players, not talent evaluators. That being said, how has Andruw looked in the field this spring? I have a very hard time believing he is a better CF than Rios at this point in his career. I'm encouraged by his spring thus far, but I've been tricked too many times before by misleading spring stats to completely buy the rejuvenated Andruw Jones just yet.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 15, 2010 -> 06:45 PM) Ah the pinning of a game thread. That makes me tingly inside. Who wouldn't feel tingly inside with the murderer's row we have starting for us tonight?

Man, that guy at first is a real butcher.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Mar 4, 2010 -> 11:27 PM) I don't think that this would be a problem. Quentin's going to have to have another 2008-like year before he's anywhere near expensive. And even then, with his injury history, I don't see him getting $12M or anything crazy like that in his second arb-eligible year. And even if he did go off and hit 50 HRs this year and the Padres didn't want to pay him arb-value next year, he's still under team control through 2012 and the they could easily flip him for more prospects (which is what they're looking for anyway). Dealing AGon for Quentin and a package of high-tier prospects would make a lot of sense for the Padres. Unfortunately, it would make less sense for the Sox. I think he's saying that if Quentin has another year that he is capable of (and thus worth acquiring in an AGon trade), he's going to become so expensive that they are going to have to spin him around and trade him right away anyways. If he isn't getting payed a lot of money, it wouldn't even be worth it to trade for him in the first place because you know Kenny wouldn't sell Quentin unless he was given value based on his 2008 season and not the 2009 one. And, as you said, it really doesn't make any sense for the Sox in the first place.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 3, 2010 -> 10:42 PM) It's still the same thing. When you add it all up at the end of the year (assuming our roster stays healthy and we don't acquire or call up another bat) you're still going to be giving ABs that would normally go to a DH to Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones. Everyone loves versatility and the ability to rest productive players with other productive players, but the issue is that there doesn't appear to be many hardcore Sox fans who think Kotsay and Jones will be productive. I'd absolutely love a rotating DH if Andruw Jones and Mark Kotsay were close to the same players they were several years ago, but they're not. Jones has fallen off the face of the earth and Kotsay can't stay healthy, nor can he play CF which is what made his offensive contributions so valuable in the past. Hopefully Kenny acts quickly if a change needs to be made. I also don't think it's pessimistic in any way to doubt Kotsay and Jones. We're already hoping for rebounds from the following players: JJ Putz, Scott Linebrink, Tony Pena, Freddy Garcia, Mark Teahen, Alex Rios, and Carlos Quentin. We're hoping Konerko has at least a decent year which is no certainty either. In general I think it's safe to say that most Sox fans are very optimistic about Peavy's ability to adjust to the Cell, Beckham's development, Alexei putting his crappy Aprils and powerless 2009 2nd half behind him, Floyd's hip, Jenks' injury issues, Pierre's first AL season, Hudson's ability to pitch well as a rookie should we need him to fill a big hole in the pen or rotation, etc. I know that every team out there has question marks, but it seems like we have a ton, and it's hard to be optimistic about every player on this club. Kotsay and Jones appear to be the least likely of them all to produce the way an AL club needs it's DH to produce. Win.

If the semantics between full time DH and full time person in the lineup regardless of position is enough to make people happy with our "DH" situation, I don't plan on arguing about it. Also, I hope to god Ozzie puts Vizquel in the field and the person he is replacing into the DH spot. For some reason, I just have a bad feeling that this will not be the case...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 27, 2010 -> 08:41 AM) Frankly, yeah, I would. The teams that are going to be after him are going to be competitive teams, right? How many of them are going to willingly give up a "proven" player, someone who is already contributing to that team? Plus, you have to look at it from a cost standpoint as well. These proven players are much closer to being paid than any of the unproven prospects.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 25, 2010 -> 12:53 PM) Indeed. And how the heck is he invited to camp again? He is so awful. He was given an outside shot at our 6th OF position.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 24, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) I'm not sure what "tangent" you're referring to as I was speaking directly to the topic at hand. The "tangent" I was referring to was getting into a battle over semantics of an issue that is really pretty meaningless (whether or not you were saying that the DH spot was completely unimportant). QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 24, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) Dewayne Wise hit leadoff, and was dismissed before he was even given a chance to play last year (see opneing day booing). And before he was injured, did actually begin to start playing better. I really had no intention of trying to attack Wise if that is what you were thinking. I was just trying to make a parallel between people being penciled into positions that they really don't belong. QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 24, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) Now, my issue is with those that have completely written off the offense based on the DH alone. The idea that since the Sox do not have a legit DH (at least that we know of) they will have a poor offense. My opinion is that while a DH would help the cause, it will not be the difference between a good offense and a poor one. However, the difference will reside in the heart of the order. You can come back to me in July and declare your victory if I'm wrong, but as Quentin and Rios go, so will go the Sox offense. If they're bad, then the Sox offense will be bad. But if they're good and the DH isn't all that great, the Sox will still probably be a "good enough" offense. Well, I'm not sure what gave you the idea that I hold any of those beliefs. I do believe that a good DH fills a hole in our lineup, which makes our offense better regardless of any other player on our roster, and I am tired of people justifying a hole in our team because it won't "break" it. A hole is a hole. If you want to give a legitimate reason for not filling a hole like we couldn't afford players X, Y, and Z , that's fine (though it is false because we could afford Thome), but don't give me this BS that it doesn't matter because of Quentin, Rios, or anybody else.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 24, 2010 -> 05:20 PM) It's not ridiculous. What's ridiculous is assuming the offense is an automatic failure only because of the DH (or lack thereof). I didn't say it doesn't matter, but I said that position was never going to be responsible for the bulk of the Sox offense. Of course, Damon would've made them better. I think it's arguable as to exactly how much better he would've made them as far as his effect on the number of total wins, but he would've probably been an improvement. The point is that Quentin is one of the big boys (and really, the biggest boy). If he doesn't produce, they're probably going to be in trouble. On the other hand, if he does, and Rios does, and Konerko does, the DH is probably not going to make or break them. The days of the David Ortiz-type monster DHs are about behind us. The major offense is coming from the position players. It's Quentin that has the 30+ HR, 100+ RBI, .950+ OPS potential, not Damon. He's going to be more important than any other individual offensive player. I'm not saying the DH is not important. All of the spots in the lineup are, but there are varying degrees of importance. The truth is that Q will be more important than anyone. If he's having a good year and the other guys I mentioned are relatively productive, I think they'll be able to get by regardless of who is or isn't the DH. Obviously, improvements are improvements, but in the end, how much difference will it actually make? Instead of going off on another tangent about whether or not you think a DH matters, I'm just going to reply to the bold part because that was part of the point of my original post. Who cares? Who actually cares whether or not our DH is good enough to supplant Quentin as the "key" to our offense? I'm not arguing that Johnny Damon would be more important to us than Carlos Quentin. I'm not arguing that any DH would be more important to us than any other part of our offense. I am just tired of seeing people write off the fact that we have people being penciled into positions that they do not belong because it isn't the most important part of our line up. Was Dewayne Wise any less of a hole because he played on the same team as the "key" to our offense?

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 24, 2010 -> 03:11 PM) As I've said before, the DH position is really no longer the best offensive player on the team which has been the trend for the last several years now. The keys of the Sox offense will be Q and Rios, which is something we've been saying since the end of last season. Another hitter would have made the istuation more comfortable from a certainty standpoint, but the DH wouldn't carry this team anyway. Even if they acquired Damon and Quentin and Rios suck, the offense would suck. If they don't, it will probably be good enough. So you are arguing that since nobody else matters on offense that they should just step back and try to fill the rest of the positions as cheaply as possible? This is such a ridiculous argument Ranger, and you know it. I can understand that they did not sign Damon because he was too expensive for them, but to say that the position doesn't matter because of Quentin and Rios is just a ridiculous statement. What if both Quentin and Rios perform as well as they can in addition to good production from your DH? Is that not a better team with a higher chance of not only getting to the playoffs but doing something in them?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2010 -> 06:40 PM) Way too much emphasis gets put on to numbers in the minor league system. There, I said it. Dan Hudson is a pretty good counterexample to this, though. He was one of the best statistical pitchers if not the best (I'm not sure where to check my facts here), and yet he seems to get almost no love at all in these lists.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 08:30 PM) This has got to be one of the silliest questions I've ever heard. Do we really need a Cy Young award winner in his prime? Pitching always trumps hitting. This is why there are so many ridiculous contracts paid to pitchers and not as many for hitters. The Sox' pitching was ranked second last year in ERA (and tied for first if you like ERA+), and the team finished below .500. Pitching may trump hitting, but with the skill of this pitching staff, we are getting to the point of diminishing returns.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 07:38 PM) Really? Maybe you should think about it for a second. Ok, I still doubt it. Edit: I see you've edited your post. I am on your side basically, but you know you are just going to get blasted for bringing the money thing up again.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 06:59 PM) There should be ZERO doubt that Kenny is gonna add a serious left-handed bat in the coming weeks. I doubt that he makes any moves until well after the season starts. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 22, 2010 -> 07:28 PM) So how much does Halladay make? And at a minimum, how much would it have cost to extend him even if he gave you an unbelievable bargain? Next time KW tells you he doesn't have any money, you know what he's full of, and if it was ultimately the size of the extension that caused the trade not to go through, how does that Rios waiver claim look now? You have to stop doing this to yourself...

QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 11:04 AM) If Quentin doesn't rebound, this offense will struggle to score runs with or without Damon. I'm really getting tired of this justification. An improved DH means an improved team, and that has nothing to do with Carlos Quentin.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2010 -> 10:31 AM) Damon would have been a better fit for the Sox. All this does it means that Jones and TCQ have to do more to rebound. Or that our prospects play well enough that Kenny can fill the gaps at the deadline without having to deal either Flowers or Hudson since that seems to be a deal breaker for him.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 08:57 PM) I think our offense struggles because it's been an all or nothing offense, which is typical of a power team. Ozzie wants to go away from that, have the flexibility to create some runs instead of relying too much on power. I don't see a problem with this, except that I still think there are not enough OBP guys in the lineup to accomplish what he wants. But some of you guys act as if there's going to be a complete power outage with this lineup, and I just don't see that. I expect increased power numbers from Rios, Q, Beckham and Ramirez to go along with Jones, who I think will surprise many. Fixed.

My guess is that we stand pat.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 02:02 PM) Besides his terrible 2nd half last year, Dye was certainly one of the better Sox hitters. And who is this average position player he's being replaced with? Rios might be an upgrade, but who knows if he'll bounce back? VV a few days ago. He signed pretty cheap too. Well, if it weren't for that iceberg, the titanic would have been the greatest ship ever. QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 02:05 PM) I may get blasted for this, but I actually believe that Pierre's overall skill set (speed, base-stealing, contact-hitting, defense) will make him an overall upgrade to what a declining Dye would've contributed as a DH this year (and at almost 1/3 of the price). That says a lot more about Dye than it does about Pierre.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 20, 2010 -> 01:23 PM) Sorry, I didn't connect those two ideas very well. (1) Damon is not an "impact player" in my opinion, but he's relatively close. (2) Damon likely would've cost the Sox at least $7M if Kenny didn't pull out his bid, announce the value of his offer, and thus undermine Boras' ability to drive up the price via a bidding war. You're right, Damon wouldn't have positively impacted this offense at all...

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 18, 2010 -> 05:50 PM) Oh no, we would have to DFA kotsay and Jones? We would have to bench Pierre? We'd have a good DH and amazing 1b? This is like my wet dream. Yeah really, if DFA'ing Jones is what stops them from acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, I want a new GM.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 18, 2010 -> 05:30 PM) But it also wouldn't be a Sox kind of deal to trade their best prospects for a player they didn't think they had a chance of signing beyond his current contract. The thing is that you just can't make an assumption of what they will be able to afford, what they will already have, and what their needs will be for 2012. Hell, they don't even know that for sure. You simply cannot discount the possibility that they would be willing, and able, to acquire him and hang onto him at that time. It's not really a question of whether or not they can even afford him, but whether or not they would be willing to invest $200 million plus in one person. I was really low-balling my previous estimate because he would actually be making less money than Mark Teixeira over the same amount of years (it seems likely he will get more of both). I think at that point it's not really a shrewd business move even though Adrian is a really, really good player considering where their payrolls normally are.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Feb 18, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) How can you possibly have any idea that the Sox wouldn't have the ability to re-sign Gonzalez a year and a half from now? You don't know that because you don't know what the economic climate will be then and you don't know the resources that may become available to them over the next two seasons. "Attendance depends on winning" right? It's likely a player like him would help them win, which would give them more payroll flexibility. The other thing is that a team is willing to trade a good package of its youth for a player like Gonzalez because a. He's young, b ) He's still incredibly cheap for two seasons, c) He's a sure thing (production-wise), and d) The Sox minor leaguers that would hypothetically be involved in the deal are not "sure things". As promising as some of them are, they all may blow when they get here. Such is the nature of prospects. Maybe they win a couple world series, but I can't see them investing $20 million a year for a good 8 years in one player. It just doesn't seem like a "Sox" kind of deal.