Thad Bosley

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 15, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Nobody is out here defending Reinsdorf. The majority of Sox fans want him gone. It's probably a lot greater than just a majority.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 05:06 PM) [slow clap] I know it's inconvenient for you to accept it, but as long as Jerry Reinsdorf remains owner and continues to preside over the culture of losing he's instilled in the team and the organization, ongoing observations critical of him and his record remain relevant.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) Keep going, your schtick definitely is not getting old or boring. I think you mean Reinsdorf's schtick. That's what the Sox fan base continues to suffer from.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Right, but making that comment in 1984 when he owned the team for 3 years would be quite different than making the same comment in 2014. But you, having no idea when he said it, still want to comment and b**** about it because that is what you do. Meanwhile, the same owner who today says THE biggest mistake as owner was firing Tony LaRussa. Again, way down the list of the many mistakes he's made these past 36 years.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 14, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) You have no idea when or even if he made that comment, but don't let that stop you. Don't worry, I won't, but thanks for checking in. No, I was simply reacting to Lip's post where he mentioned that Reinsdorf said as much. If it's untrue and he never claimed that trading Koosman was one of his "biggest mistakes as owner", that would be encouraging, given there are many far more franchise-crippling mistakes he's made as owner over the years that make that trade look like nothing at all in comparison.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2016 -> 06:32 PM) Ron Kittle told me the team outright quit in the second half of 1984. Remember they had won seven straight and were in first place at the break. The big difference between 83 and 84 was Jerry Koosman. I had so many guys tell me off that club him not being there was a difference maker. Even JR admitted that was one of his biggest mistakes as owner, letting the Sox trade him for Ron Reed. Koosman was like a second pitching coach, kept players in line and acted as a reassuring voice in the clubhouse when things got tight. Tony LaRussa told me a big part of the reason Bull had a bad 84 and retired was because Kooz wasn't around. They were tight and would drive to the ballpark together. But back to the point, the 84 team had nothing to do with my comment that the 83 team was in my opinion much more talented than the 03 club as the poster originally suggested (i.e. the most talented in franchise history...) But carry on with whatever you are suggesting. Mark LOL!! This bozo thinks trading the 40 year-old Jerry Koosman is one of his "biggest mistakes as owner"? Oh, the humanity!!!

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) I don't think the Red Sox would move both JBJ and Benintendi. I know you've said the same earlier in the thread, but I don't think a rental of Melky really changes anything. JBJ and Benintendi are both franchise CFers. The BoSox could move one, but moving both would take a huge strength and turn it into a huge hole. Neither Melky Cabrera or Brock Holt will make a difference in that regard. I do think a lot of posters on this board are underrating JBJ. I know we're trading the best asset the White Sox have ever had in this hypothetical and people want better than JBJ as a headliner, but JBJ is a .340-.360 OBP guy with 20+ dingers and great defense. Other than depth of the roster, our problem is the lack of power/OBP/defense. JBJ does all of those things at a premium position. At home, he can really take away the gaps. Seeing what Lorenzo Cain does when KC come to town, it would be incredible to have our own guy forcing teams to hit the long ball to win. Especially with Eaton in RF. I think Kopech is the guy the Sox would insist on including. He'd be the next ace prospect in the system hopefully to replace Sale in a few years. He had some makeup concerns coming out of the draft and has since been suspended for stims and suspended for fighting with a teammate. That adds another layer of risk on a 20 year old who throws 100+. He is filthy though. Despite a clear need to stop tipping his off-speed pitches, Kopech absolutely dominated A+ as a 20 year old. He stays tall and closed on the fastball but has a bad habit of dropping down and slowing down on the offspeed offerings. From my largely untrained eye, his mechanics would check out with the Sox. So to me, one of JBJ/Benintendi is a must. Kopech is a must. One of Swihart/Vazquez makes too much sense. If it's JBJ, we need Moncada too. If it's Bentinendi, the last four pieces are higher quality guys than the last three on Moncada/JBJ starter. If we could somehow get Moncada/JBJ that would be incredible. My deals in order of preference and least likelihood: 1.) Moncada, JBJ, Kopech, Swihart/Vazquez and Eduardo Rodriguez/Brian Johnson. 2.) Benintendi, Kopech, Devers, Swihart/Vazquez and Eduardo Rodriguez/Brian Johnson 3.) JBJ, Kopech, Devers, Swihart/Vazquez and Luis Alexander Basabe I'm keen on the first option, because for the cost of one (great) player, the ChiSox would be acquiring a considerable amount of talent to throw at 3/4th of the positions up the middle (CF, 2B, & C). It's long been said the strength of a team can be judged at how strong they are up the middle, and so you add those three players with Anderson at SS, and all of a sudden it's a completely different complexion, position player-wise, for the Sox for the foreseeable future. And the team would be adding some significant pitching depth, to boot! I love the idea of a trade like this one. So much so that I'd be very interested in doubling down with a similar deal for Q. Strike while the elite lefties with the team friendly contracts irons are hot, I say!

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 7, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) October 5, 1983 - The White Sox are in the playoffs for the first time in 24 years and open the A.L.C.S. in Baltimore beating the Birds 2-1 behind the brilliant pitching from LaMarr Hoyt. Hoyt went the distance on a five hitter and nearly had himself a shutout save for a soft bloop hit by Cal Ripken in the 9th inning. We've got the final out as Hoyt retired Eddie Murray to get the win. Announcer is Joe McConnell. Courtesy: WMAQ Radio. http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2016/10/t...yts-brilliance/ Mark These are just terrific, Lip. Thanks for making the effort to bring these clips to the forum. Always great to go back in time and hear the voices of Sox baseball from years gone by. I really enjoyed Joe McConnell myself, and so it's always nice to get a chance to hear his voice describing an exciting Sox moment from the past.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 10:55 AM) There is nothing that could happen in this postseason that would make me happier than this. Not even Jeff Samardzija shutting out the Cubs in the next week in a game that eliminates them from the playoffs?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Ugh. One of these days you will learn what an observation is, but let me explain this. Again. I EXPECT nothing. Fans can do what they want to do. Now stay with me here, because this is where you seem to get lost, but, what fans do DOES have an effect on the bottom line of the franchise. IF they stay, or IF hey go is a big determination of the options that a franchise has. Those two ideas are NOT mutually exclusive. You can believe in loyalty, or you can believe in sending a message to the franchise, but it does NOT change the fact that those actions impact the myriad of options that a franchise has. If you want to continue to be offended by your misconception, there isn't much I can do about that. Actually, couldn't agree with you more. That's why it is incumbent upon management to put a product on the field that entices the fans to come, and motivates them to stay through some level of sustained success. That's how it works. Remember, fans are the consumers of the product, not the investors in it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) Rick and Kenny are also both on record saying that they won't always tell the truth to the media when it doesn't benefit the franchise. Plus you can just look at last off season's transactions and it is 100% obvious they didn't fully go for it. They didn't sign a top free agent, and they move top prospects to get a true front line player to fill a hole. The front office can say what they want, but the actions don't agree. Interesting. So you expect unconditional "loyalty" from a fan base for a team that is "on record saying that they won't always tell the truth" to the fans (via the media), and in any given season, won't "fully go for it", whatever that means. That sounds like they didn't make a requisite effort to win this season which any fan would expect each season from their team, unless the team declares up front that it is a rebuilding season. The Sox did not say any such thing at the beginning of this past season, but instead led us all to believe with the previously highlighted quotes that they were going to do everything they could to "maximize" the opportunity to win this season with the current core. But now you suggest they cannot be believed or taken at their word. Again, I say, interesting.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 5, 2016 -> 06:22 AM) The thing is, if you look at it, they didn't really "go for it" last year either, as they kept all of their top prospects, and they didn't go all in for the free agent market. The results of the 2016 season might make it look like they didn't "go for it", but their stated intent from the middle through the end of last year suggests otherwise: “We’re blessed right now with some special talent that’s entering prime of its career, whether it’s Chris Sale or Jose Abreu, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana, Carlos Rodon — he’s probably a little before his peak but certainly on the rise,” Hahn said in an interview on the Spiegel and Goff Show. “Our goal and intent all along has been to maximize the window to win a championship while these players are on our roster." - Rick Hahn, December 2015 "“It’s important that we not lose sight of what our organization goal was,” Williams said, according to USA Today. “And that was to give us the best three-year window. And we’re not going to abandon that completely with only three months to play. “If we do anything, it will be consistent with trying to maximize this three-year plan or window that we set out originally.” - Kenny Williams, July 2015

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 07:13 AM) Defending the board going in the Robin Ventura appreciation thread for more complaining? That's rich. It's also rich you mention my posts yet you feel it's OK for YOU to pollute an appreciation thread with more b****ing. The fact of the matter is Eminor is totally correct. Complaint Police Sergeant Major Allen on patrol!!

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Harold Baines is my favorite Sox player of all time, but I agree he is a notch shy of HOF. He was one of the best clutch hitters ever to wear a Sox Jersey, shame his knees went bad so early in career. I would say THE best clutch hitter, so much so that for my money, if there are two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying run at third base, and Harold Baines and Frank Thomas are on the bench, I go with Bainesy every single time. He was that good in the clutch IMO.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:38 PM) Harold Baines will be on the ballot for possible induction into the HOF by the "Game Era Committee" along with Albert Belle, Will Clark, Orel Hershiser, Davey Johnson, Mark McGwire, Lou Piniella, John Schuerholz, Bud Selig and George Steinbrenner. Probably won't get in and I've always viewed him as a little shy of being deserving but as a Sox fan I would like to see it happen. There are definitely worse players in the HOF. http://baseballhall.org/hof/2017-todays-game-era-ballot Just 16 home runs and 134 hits separates him from being just shy and a near shoe-in. The combo of the 16 homers and 134 hits would have put him in a very exclusive club of guys who had 3,000 hits AND 400 home runs. If you check the records, I believe there are fewer than ten who have accomplished both feats (admitting I haven't looked at this stat in a while). I thought back in 2001 when Frank Thomas went down with a season-ending injury and they plugged Baines into the DH slot that he would get there. But he was 41 at the time and had just flat run out of gas, and they ended up releasing him in June of that year, if I recall correctly. So close, yet so far, unfortunately.

QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 10:34 AM) Hahn says that they absolutely under achieved this year. They dont think there is a problem with this team. The team that after the hot start over the first 33 games, played the last 129 like a team that loses 100 games a year? No problem with this team? GMAFB

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 04:57 PM) Folks: Just some numbers that may be of interest to you for discussion purposes. To me its pretty clear what the needs are (not counting of course a front office, field managers and coaches who really know what they are doing) offense and the bullpen. Given a less than stellar free agent market it will be interesting to see how the Sox solve these areas assuming they are "going for it again." (And everything I've been hearing is that they will but time will tell...things can change) White Sox By the Numbers… The Sox went 78 - 84 this season, a .481 win percentage. That is a two game improvement over 2015. It is the team’s fourth straight losing season and seventh in the last 10 years. You have to go back to 1986 through 1989 the last time the Sox had four losing seasons in a row and you have to go back to the time period from 1968 through 1980 the last time they had such a sustained period of losing. The 13 seasons from 68-80 saw the club have only two winning seasons and a .500 year in that time span. They started the season going 23-10 then lost 24 of their next 34 games. They failed to make the playoffs for the 8th straight season. Playoff appearances by teams in the A.L. Central Division (1994-2016) Cleveland= 9 Minnesota= 6 Detroit= 5 White Sox = 3 Kansas City = 2 The Sox scored three runs or less in 74 out of 162 games. That’s 45.6% Here’s how that has compared to recent years: 2013: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) 2014: Sox scored three runs or less in 77 of 162 games played (47.5%) 2015: Sox scored three runs or less in 82 of 162 games played (50.6%) The Sox were shutout 11 times. The Sox scored one run in a game 20 times. The Sox scored two runs in a game 19 times. The Sox lost 22 games this year when holding an opponent to three runs or less. The White Sox were 6-22 (.214) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City this season. The White Sox are 50-88 (.362) at Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City 2012-2016 seasons. Robin Ventura is 375-435 .462 win percentage in his five years as manager. That is the worst win percentage in franchise history for any manager who lasted at least five years. Here is how it compares: Ventura .462 Dykes .489 Tanner .492 LaRussa .504 Manuel .515 Guillen .524 Lopez .562 The White Sox won 15 games when trailing in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 4 times 8th inning: 7 times 9th inning: 4 times The White Sox lost 14 games when leading in the 7th inning or later. The breakdown: 7th inning: 3 times 8th inning: 8 times 9th inning: 2 times 11th inning: 1 time What pitchers were responsible for those blown leads/games? Here is the breakdown (some games had more than one pitcher…) Jones: 6 times Robertson: 3 times Albers: 2 times Duke: 2 times Beck: 1 time Carroll: 1 time Fullmer: 1 time Kahnle: 1 time Sale: 1 time White Sox were7-7 in extra inning games in 2016. I hope everyone has a good, safe off season. Mark The scariest part of this season is that after the 23-10 start, for the rest of the 129 games on the schedule, which represented 80% of the season, the team played at a winning percentage that over an entire season would have produced a 100 loss season. That's what makes all of this talk about "going for it" next year questionable, at least at the moment. The starting point is a roster that played very poorly from early May all the way until early October. So with that in mind, it will be interesting, indeed, to see how the front office conducts itself this offseason.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 07:41 PM) When the White Sox were at their apex, and the Cubs sucked, they couldn't out draw them. The Sox don't have that fan base. Period. Are you surprised at this? Only 5 trips to the postseason over the last 56 years. What more do you expect?

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 11:15 AM) You aren't new here. This argument has been going in circles for the past year +. Everybody is bored with it, except Thad Bosley who isn't happy unless he has something to complain about. Excellent post. Learned quite a bit.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) So not even league average is a strong showing. You are funny. It's absolutely a strong showing given the park's capacity. Get a grip.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:37 AM) So what happened in 2008? 2012? Well, in 2008, the last time the Sox went to the postseason and one of only five times in the past 56 years they've done so, they drew 2.5 million plus fans to the park. Last I looked, that was considered a very strong attendance showing. Now why you keep bringing up 2012, I'll never know. They didn't win anything that year. They did not go to the postseason, so it doesn't even matter. Throw it on the scrap heap with the other 50 years of non-postseason appearances of the past 56 years and forget about it already.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) So now he is an asshole for cutting down the upper deck. You are hysterical. By the way the 66-96 Cubs drew about 2500 more per game in 2006. Hey, I know! Let's play a game. It's called "Dick Allen puts words in his mouth and his mouth only!" Can we play that game, Dick? You down with that? Because it really does get old and boring watching you either twist words or put words in other people's mouths just to support your craving to argue just for the sake of arguing. Just stop with the nonsense already. Didn't say Reinsdorf was an asshole when referencing the slicing off of the top eight rows of the upper deck. Simply made the point that as a result of him doing so the ballpark's capacity was significantly reduced, to even less than that of Wrigley. So it's pretty pointless trying to compare the attendance of the two teams in 2006 when both teams were selling out almost every game, but one team has a bigger ballpark than the other. There. Those are my words, again, thank you very much. And oh, since you are the one who brought it up, Reinsdorf is the term YOU used due to the myriad bonehead and fan-unfriendly decisions he's made lo these past 36 years of his reign of terror.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 06:03 PM) Here we go into the endless circle again, where I prove that even when they did, people still didn't show up nearly as much. Oh no? 1983 - White Sox first Chicago baseball team to draw two million fans. 2006 - Sox max out on season ticket packages, draw just short of three million with nearly 60 sell outs that season. Only the reduced capacity of the ballpark due to Reinsdorf lopping off the top eight rows of the upper deck a few seasons prior prevents the Sox from blowing attendance records out of the water that year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) Even when they have delivered a winner, fans didn't respond in the same way as Cub fans did. The difference wasn't Harry Carry, it was the fan bases. The Cubs fan base is more loyal. You mean those five times in the last 56 years? I'm sorry, what was that you were saying something about loyalty?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 09:42 AM) Yeah, EVERYTHING OWNERSHIP DOES IS WRONG, EVEN WHEN IT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT! Two things: A.) Fans want a winner. In your opinion, how well has ownership done on delivering on that one and only request? B.) In your opinion, what has ownership done that is right that apparently the rest of us are not properly appreciating?