Eminor3rd

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) I view tools and skill to be pretty much the same thing. Different players are going to have different skills that are part of their overall toolset. It's the skill vs. will comparison that will set players apart. Granted, if a guy has little skill, all the will in the world won't help him at the MLB level. But, if you have two players with similar skills and one busts his ass day in and day out to get better, he's going to succeed over a guy who tries to fall back to his "god-given" skills. Garcia is a guy with the skills to be a great player, but he's going to have to bust his ass. See I see "skill" as what you develop, tools as something like ability. Like a pitcher may have a crazy good arm, but his path to developing command and control is a "skill." Avisail has great strength, speed, hand-eye coordination. These are his abilities, gifts, tools, etc. But the "skill" of hitting is pitch recognition, pitch selection, muscle memory, body control, swing mechanics, mental planning, etc. Anyway I'm not saying I'm the authority on how those words are used, but that's what I've meant when I've used them.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) 1. So he doesnt hit like probably one of the best hitters EVER? Thats CRAZY!!!!!!! 2. The guy put up a .775 OPS with us last year at age 22, and has tremendous upside. So yes, he has great talent. Come on, Rock, don't ignore context. You're not like these other guys. He put up a .775 OPS on the strength of a .370 BABIP, over 42 games. Players ride .370 BABIPs all the way to MVP awards. A .775 OPS on that BABIP is somewhere between disappointing and very disappointing. Furthermore, he did it with a league average LD% somehow, which is numerical corroboration to what we all already observed -- a whole bunch of seeing-eye grounders and shanked pop-up ducksnorts. If he does everything that way he did last year, that BABIP is going to drop substantially. It may stay above .300 if he continues to hit 8-10% more GB than average, but take 50 or so points off of that BABIP and stay around 3.0% BB rate, and that average-ish RF OPS will very quickly become below average. The dude needs to learn to take bad pitches and work a count. He's 22, so hopefully he does, but he has shown us nothing so far. He has shown remarkable tools, and no skills. It depends how you define talent, I guess, but I always think of it more toward the skill side of that spectrum. EDIT: Also, I'm not expecting him to be one of the greatest hitters ever, and I'm not saying he has to be him to be successful -- but that's the comparison everyone is making that I'm criticizing in my post. I'm tired of people comparing him to Miguel Cabrera. As players, they are nothing alike. EDIT 2: Oh, and he looks like Manny Ramirez in the OF. I really hope that changes fast

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) Joey Nowak ‏@joeynowak 16m Bo Jackson thought Avisail Garcia was Miguel Cabrera. Common mistake. Said he just "oozes talent." Bo on Garcia: "He looks more like an NFL defensive end than a right fielder." Whatever talent he's oozing, it isn't hitting or fielding a baseball. I get it, he's a physical specimen. Someone teach him how to play. He may look like Cabrera, but he sure as hell doesn't hit like him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 10:41 AM) I don't mind Vin. I have heard the Brewers, Rangers, and Angels crews in the last week. Talk about a load of suck. Yeah, especially the Brewers guys. I thought I heard they were good. Are we sure that was the actual in-season team? Could be their version of Bill Melton, for example.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) It has been torture to listen to spring training games this year. There haven't been a lot of Sox broadcasts, so I have been forced to listen to the other teams feeds. It makes me want to kick puppies. As much as I hate every hype train, I gotta say that I believe that Vin Scully is NOT overrated.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) Emotionless and unbiased announcers are boring as hell. The best announcers in sports are the guys who get into the game and make you feel like you are there. I agree with you on that point. Hawk was amazing in the 90's and early 2000's. At this point, though, he's actually hurting the brand. I used to think that maybe my opinion of him has just changed over the years and that I was too young to care much when I watch him 10-15 years ago. But then I went through a short period where I was seeking out old games to re-watch and I realized I was wrong -- Hawk used to be a much more alert, professional announcer that had a passionate edge that made him a cut above the rest. Now, he's become a caricature. My hope is that he leaves on his own accord soon so we can honor his memory. The way it's going now, he'll either get forced out by finally going too far or he'll keep getting worse until he dies at his lowest point. I don't want either of those to happen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) With the meltdowns I see on Soxtalk, I laugh that it bothers people that Hawk, who is WAY more connected to this team and game, has a meltdown about something. Fans can have meltdowns, you're not supposed to do it as the official voice of the franchise.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) Agreed. However, consider mixing chocolate pudding with corn starch, adding some yellow food coloring and pieces of canned kernel corn, and then consider squeezing the result from a pastry frosting gun so that it looked like poo. That wouldn't be so bad. Who would really know? I'd definitely eat fake poo if Dunn hit .240+ again over a large sample size of ABs against both sides of the plate, OR if he could actually be part of a quality platoon without noticeably suffering in his stats vs. RHP given the extra time on the bench & seeing less live pitching. I'd eat chocolate regardless!

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) That's fair. Dunn has no chance in hell at 50HR & Viciedo probably has no chance at superstardom. Dunn does have a chance at a mostly empty and very low batting average & some HRs in the 30ish range with a whole massive f***load of otherwise pissed away PA to go with it. Viciedo OTOH has a chance to at least be a useful offensive player, but doesn't walk enough and isn't athletic enough to be a star. Yeah but if we're talking about literally eating poo, it needs to be reserved for the extremes.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) And so then what will you do if he does the same s*** he's done here for 3 years, and the Sox get nothing, and end up taking PA from players who would benefit more? What do you do then? Huh? Huh? What do you do then Mr Eminor3D? I'm eating a turd sandwich if Viciedo turns into a superstar.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 02:14 PM) So they will need one in a week? Precisely. Well, then they have Jackie Bradley Jr., whom is in line to lose his job to Grady if the fluff pieces were actually real things.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 12:53 PM) Red Sox are shopping Ryan Lavarnay. Per MLB trade rumors I like that bat. We've had a bad defender behind the plate for years, why not try him? Do the Red Sox need an OF? NO THEY HAVE GRADY SIZEMORE

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) The only value in a Dunn jersey is in the mind of the person burning it. And I for one would much rather burn a "32" Dunn jersey than a "44" Dunn jersey. And the more "32" jerseys destroyed, the rarer they become. If he hits 50 bombs this year, you will be expected to record yourself eating an actual turd sandwich. It must be posted on the FutureSox YouTube channel for our collective viewing pleasure.

Guys! Guys, guys. Is the chance to save $2m worth taking 200 ABs away from Jordan Danks? It doesn't matter. Whoever is right on this isn't right by much. It's okay.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 08:49 AM) I have chosen my friends in life well, but thanks for your opinion. I have considered it and do not agree with it. And you'll defend his right to think it!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 08:14 AM) I made an error, something many White Sox are quite familar with. .231/.286/.385 His OPS is .670 on the spring. From Hahn's comments during his conference call last week, the leash isn't going to be very long for Flowers or Phegley. If they fail again, and no long term solution can be reasonably targeted and acquired, they will go to short term stopgaps. Yeah, I think the fact is that C is still a hole for us. They tried to fill it but didn't get it done. So we'll see

Yes, I would. No chance in hell we get Ray or Castellanos.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2014 -> 06:56 AM) .231/.286/.670 I hope he carries over something better than that. I'd actually be just fine with a .956 OPS out of him

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Mar 15, 2014 -> 06:08 PM) Why would he? To quote a great man, "Mama always said stupid is as stupid does." BTW re: another one of wite's many gems in this thread, actually I did see a heavily bearded crazy Jesus homeless man today in the Menards parking lot. True story. He looked to be pushing what was more of a kiosk than a shopping cart which had I think balloons or something all over it that spelled out "Jesus Loves Everyone" in big colorful letters. Now I could have been a dick like wite would have certainly been and asked him a bunch of bulls***ty questions just to get a laugh out of it, but unfortunately for me I actually feel for the homeless & I think that if your beliefs are all you have in this world and you're just out there trying to spread a positive message then good luck to you no matter how crazy those beliefs are. And BTW this guy had style too, it looked like he spent a lot of time working on his 4-wheeled Jesus kiosk & had probably spent a good amount of his diving time behind the nearby Hobby Lobby & Jo-Ann Fabrics stores. Maybe he hit Bed Bath & Beyond too, which is also something wite wouldn't do because I'm sure wite would rather go inside the store & pay full price for his overrated home & beauty products rather than get them free out of the trash like a more intelligent individual. And Adam Dunn is still terrible and still needs to go. Bestrewing keener persnickety awake yodelling excubitoria raffishness basement feldspathose superrefine epicurus recognising unaptness parallelized. Combatively vivacious periblast unpartizan leavier confabulation scannable antiresonance revelled causing skyborne samadhi biltong doggrel. Bipinnariae muspellsheim vindicate reactionist fireworks invertase mispunctuated naphthene keratosis nonecliptical lille england immediately substratum. Vceskd sestos hesper faradised fertility equatorial unknocked reveille upbear pillaged somatologist fluyt dechenite fulsomely. Lacrymal thicketed broadtail noncoherence questorship vomitus awoke sextuple trickless presageful stoutish afteryears unquailing unmonopolized. Revers styptical grinner paraffine gladiatorial huly wootz reoffer trombone resolvent undefendant autooxidation polis forewind. Nonevaluation anemic troublesomely rhynchocephalian gesticulating crispbread specificative sneaky cleanskin crimple unembryonic forgetter delphi vilified. Paraphrasis precipitance shapeless retainer subbias olbers overguilty cellulose gametangia mispractice variety defining channeler dalhousie. Crating eudaemonistic wailuku heftiest negotiant pietism pentastich undandled skyless seraglios votive rigorism pyromorphite semidrying. Exordia sweetness trochoidally periphrase myeloma preexperimental nilometric cursedly notwithstanding precrystalline grimmest schizogonous websterian muon.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 15, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) On MLBN too for us out-of-towners. And mlb.tv for us out-of-towners without cable

TUC: I think the problem is you're arguing very small things. It hit me when you tried to convince us that we should worry about Jordan Danks. The reality is that, even if you're right about Dunn's roster spot stunting someone's development, it will not ever make a significant difference. Take a step back from the screen and ask yourself "what is to be gained by Dunn? What is to be lost by Dunn?" Whichever one of those you think is more, it won;t be enough to matter. It's okay if Dunn stays -- it won't end up having anything to do with our next championship.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) Lee's numbers improved the same year they started this, so wouldn't it make sense to think it was worse the 3 previous years? Probably, but the first year they have it he's at 17%, which is just a grand canyon sized gap from even league average, let alone where Viciedo is. You could regress Lee all the way to 25% and still not even be in the same league as Viciedo. Your point that Viciedo can still improve is valid and I grant it. But there's not a lot of evidence that Viciedo and Lee are all that similar in terms of zone recognition. I would be shocked if anyone ever cut their O-Swing that drastically after 1000 PAs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) Where do you get the O-Swing for his first 3 years? Fangraphs only has it starting in 2002. I don't think it exists anywhere, unfortunately.

Here's an alternate analysis of this piece: http://www.fangraphs.com/not/adam-dunn-the...f-a-big-donkey/

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2014 -> 09:55 AM) Carlos Lee was very much like Tank. He didn't walk much, had a few more hits, but put up an OPS+ right around average until he turned 26. Tank is never going to walk a ton, but he still can learn to layoff pitches he can't hit hard. Maybe he won't, but I don't get how anyone can conclude a just turned 25 year old cannot. Carlos Lee's O-Swing was substantially above average -- it never exceeded 25% when he was with the White Sox and was more typically around 22%. Again, Diane Visiendo's was always worse than average, has gotten worse each year, and was 42.5% last year. Lee swung at an astonishing 20% fewer bad pitches than Tank did last year. This is what Balta was saying -- it isn't about the walks, it's about the selectivity.