Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) Not in my opinion. Only teams I could see a trade with would be the Pirates, Cubs, and Cardinals. The Sox would absolutely "get thinking" on anything including Profar and additional prospects.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 10:31 AM) Actually, with the money Detroit is sending, Kinsler will cost more over the next three years. He has not been good away from Arlington, and Detroit has a ballpark that will not play to his strengths. Its not a bad trade for Detroit, but it is a better trade for Texas given that Fielder is built to play in that park. How does Kinsler cost more? He has $62m left on his contract and the Tigers sent $30m. Fielder has $168m left.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 10:28 AM) Yes. Haha yeah, they are one of the few teams who could trade for practically any one payer right now. Some exceptions of course.

I'm sorry guys, I'm not seeing how this is a bad trade for Detroit. Prince is a better hitter but he cost twice as much, is a liability on the basepaths, and was literally the worst defensive first baseman in baseball last year. All of those things are EXTRA important for a team with so many DHs that it forced Miggy to third base (blocking the organization's top prospect) and is so financially hampered that it was trying to trade the reigning AL Cy Young despite clearly being in win-now mode. They got nearly as much (and arguably more) value back in defense and baserunning as they gave up in offense and solved several HUGE problems for their roster. Plus, they are still a great hitting team with a bunch of players who you don't want up with extra baserunners. No way-- this is a huge win for the Tigers.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 10:02 AM) The speculation is that they are open to moving Profar or Andrus and are considering a run at Cano. Yeah, I;ve heard that, but I sort of doubt it. They JUST took on like $76m for Prince Fielder and have always been linked to Price. I can see them using the Cano money to extend Price and finding a shorter term solution at 2B to bridge to Odor.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 01:02 AM) even after Rangers trading Kinsler?? Seems odd that they would trade him but would love to have him I think it makes sense to move him -- Profar is a SS and their top prospect is a 2B named Rougned Odor. Andrus has a big contract and has been worse the past couple years.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 08:37 AM) Oh without question Joe Crede Ummmm hello? Tadahito Iguchi?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese. Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer. Yes, this exactly.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:34 PM) I don't give 2 s***s about all those stupid acronym stats. I like Gillaspie more then Freese. Ok, that's fine -- just so we all know it has nothing to do with who the better player is, lol. Gillaspie may have more upside, but right now, he is absolutely NOT a better player. And Gillaspie is NOT a better homerun hitter. You can cherry pick Freese's worst, injury-plagued year if you want, but you're ignoring the rest of his entire career, including his last healthy year, just one season ago, when he hit 20 homers. Freese has more power than Gillaspie. There is no information at all to suggest otherwise, even scouting reports on Gillaspie have ALWAYS questioned his power.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:29 PM) Someone had to replace Bruce Chen Indeed -- it just seems like they spent a ton of money to do it. Seems like they should use dollars to replace Ervin Santana first, then replace Chen with what's left. I don't think Moore is good with handling their payroll budget.

The catcher makes too much sense. Add to the spring training battle and if Flowers/Phegley/new acquisition beats him out, you just send him back. If not, you move the goalposts a bit at least by giving a different young guy a shot.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) 4 yrs, 32 million for Vargas to the Royals aaaaand the Royals add another average-ish pitcher at market rate. That's a lot of years for very little discount. To me this is move that reeks of "consolation prize" which is very weird considering it's November 21st

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) The one thing to really be concerned about was how bad he got defensively as the year went on. By the end of the season, he was awful. Yeah, and what makes that even scarier is the fact that he came into the season with a rep as a bad defender. We were all pleasantly surprised with his spring and first month or so, thinking he turned a corner -- but that seems like it might have been small sample noise now that we've seen what we can assume to be a regression given his rep.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile. I like him for some reason, too. I'm not saying we should get Freese, just that it's silly to say that Conor is better. Because as of right now, he just absolutely isn't. But he is younger and cheaper and -- most importantly -- already on our team, so I agree he's the better fit for us right now.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) Freese 30 years old 9 HR 60 RBI .262 AVG .340 OBP 462 ABs Right Handed Gillaspie- 26 years old 13 HR 40 RBI .245 AVG .305 OBP 452 PA Left Handed And it was Gillaspie's first full year and with a horrible cast around him that never got on base. Freese was on a team that made the World Series and had a bunch of guys in front of him that got on base. I will take Gillaspie every day Career WAR Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 8.2 WAR per 500PA Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 2.3 2014 Steamer projected WAR Gillaspie: 1.3 Freese: 2.3 Career UZR/150 Gillaspie: -5.2 Freese: -4.8 Career wRC+ Gillaspie: 83 Freese: 119 2014 Steamer projected wRC+ Gillaspie: 95 Freese: 118 Hmmm. Wait, I found something! 2013 Ultimate baserunning Gillaspie: -0.1 Freese: -1.9 Help me, I'm struggling here. Is the argument that Gillaspie is better something like "Freese's injury-plagued down year in 2013 makes me think that his entire career precedent is lost now that he is age 30"? Because where I'm coming from, it looks like they are similar defenders, similar baserunners, but Freese is a SUBSTANTIALLY better hitter -- like several standard deviations better.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) No no no no no no no. Just no. Conor is better thrn Freese. Just no. Being from St. Louis I can't stand Freese. So overrated because of a few games in the playoffs a couple years ago. I don't wamt him anywhere near this team. Freese is indeed overrated, and I don't want him either. However, he is absolutely better than Connor Gillaspie lol

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 09:52 AM) Kemp to the Brew Crew Braun to the White Sox Danks & Lindstrom to the Dodgers Get it done Rick!!! lol

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 12:10 AM) Bill James has been calling lineup protection a myth for years. Baseball PLAYERS, however, insist it's true and important. It seems like it should be, but when you look at how guys perform in both situations, there's little to no difference. It's just how it is, people have been TRYING to find an effect for a very long time.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 09:54 PM) Infante had a really good year offensively, and is generally pretty solid. Was he so bad on defense that they wanted to get kinsler and not pay him as a FA? No, but they dumped $76m of a rapidly declining DH (the third one on their 25 man roster) in a time where they sorely need money to retain Scherzer, while also opening up a spot for their best prospect, who just happens to be Major League ready. This is an absolute boon for the Tigers and I hate it

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 09:23 PM) In order for Abreu to have a huge impact I would feel much more comfortable with another bat behind him. If he shows he can hit he's going to be intentionally walked an awful lot without any protection. Fortunately for Abreu, every attempt ever to find an observable affect of lineup protection on player performance has failed, leaving as currently one of the most widely cited myths in baseball analysis. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice to have another good hitter behind him, though

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 06:22 PM) No offense, this is a lot easier said than done. How would you go about acquiring these players? None taken -- it isn't easy. In a word: patience. Divert budget to drafting and developing them -- and then extending them when applicable. Trade players with only short term value for them. Sign international free agents that fit the bill. The key is that you have to let the opportunities come to you, you can't just throw money at the issue to make it work in the present.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) If you are just hoping you get $100 million worth of production out of the $100 million he is owed, i don't think it is worth it with all the baggage. I agree with this 100%

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 03:12 PM) Melky was a 4.4 WAR in 113 games on the juice. Comes out to about 6.5 for a full year. He serves his suspension and was a -0.9 last year. Canseco is crazy, but he knows a lot about steroids.but if Jose Canseco doesn't think Jose Canseco would have been a major leaguer withoutp the juice, it should at least make you puse. Sammy Sosa before juice was nowhere near the offensive force he was when he was on them. McGwire had some rough years before he found the magic juice.Again, one of Braun's old friends said he was juicing at Miami, considering you said when suggested the Sox add $10 million payroll, that the suggestion was a reason why the suggester wouldn't have a billion dollar company, how does it make any sense to add a $100 million obligation before you really have a chance to see what you would get? Braun just full seasons of nearly 8 WAR. That's an Alejandro De Aza better than Melky's extrapolated performance The problem with those examples is that it's impossible to know how much better those players would have gotten WITHOUT the juice. We just can't isolate the variables. Again, I'd bet in some cases it was a lot and in others it wasn't. It's fair to be wary not knowing how much they affected him, I get that and that's a big question. There's a ton of upside though, and I think there are a lot of reasons to believe that there may be similar or less risk than even what goes into the Abreu contract.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) Then again, if you actually paid attention to how the Sox dealt with him last year (actually the last 2 years) until they finally were forced to give him a starting spot, you can make an equally strong case that he'll get significantly better. You can make the case, but I don't know if it's "equally strong." Tired or not, he has bad control and his secondary offerings are below average pitches. I personally think he should dump the screwball altogether -- it's got such a soft, predictable break and he doesn't seem to be able to keep it down in the zone with any level of consistency.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) The end result is likely somewhere between those two numbers. His FIP and xFIP were ridiculously good, but it was a small time frame. Meanwhile, the ERA was absolutely atrocious. Over a full season - if he could remain healthy for a full season - I figure he'd be about a 4.25-4.75 ERA pitcher. As I said, I think it's best if the Sox just stay away from him. He's a weiner anyway