DBAHO

Did anyone bring up Nate McLouth as a possible trade option? Had around an .821 OPS in 2007 IIRC, and stole 22 bases. He was much better power wise against righties, but if the price was right he could be a decent lead off option I guess. Anyways, 4/55 Rowand is overpaying, but it's not a 5 year deal at least. If Rowand can consistently produce what he did this season for Philly for the Sox in at least 3 of the seasons, then it'll be a good signing. I doubt that will be the case though, but KW has to save face here.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:17 PM) You wouldn't have made that trade....I like Quentin, but it's amazing the expectations people have for him right now. Well with the way Fields handled LF in the last 20 games or so, I can see why the Sox may have been a bit apprehensive about giving the LF spot, especially after the debacle that was Scott Podsednik defensively. Quentin is a pretty damn good defender, and too good for LF really.

QUOTE(quickman @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) I do not disagree with devloping our own players but I do disagree with the people doing the picking and developing. We really are not the best talent evaluators. So if we do end up going that route, I think we need to re-define our people. Businesses do it all the time, move people out and or around to re-invent or deliver better results. Well I think with the firing of Duane Shaffer and the hiring of new scouts at most levels, I think the Sox brass have recognised that they need to improve their talent evaluation, drafting and scouting in the lower levels. Hiring Buddy Bell to teach the fundamentals at the lower levels should help as well.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) With KW making the decision that Fields won't play LF during winter ball, and that his future is only at 3b, it's really disappointing that KW didn't have a better plan for Crede. At this point, we'd be better off to let Crede play 3b, and put Fields in LF. Where would Quentin play under that scenario?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:41 AM) Well, Nocioni couldn't be traded for another week and a half. Well it would have to be after that period obviously.

QUOTE(Elgin Slim @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:34 PM) What's bothering me is that in order to even speak to Oakland or Baltimore about Haren and Bedard you have to be willing to part with FOUR top prospects. And we couldn't even get one for Gar??? Granted Garland isn't on the same level with Haren, Santana, et al, but if those guys get you 4, then Garland should at least get you one. Garland had a 3.15 ERA at the all star break. He got knocked around By minny, Boston and NYY for 11,7, and 9 ER in 4 IP or less during a 3 week stretch in July. The 11 ER start was in just 1 and 2/3 innings. That takes a huge hit on an ERA. The 9 ER start was 2 and 2/3 innings. He admitted he had was having some shoulder issues during that stretch. After that he was the same pitcher he was before the break. He had a few absolutely awful abberations and he Still finished with a 4.23 ERA, which any "league average" pitcher would have his ERA in the mid 5s or worse. Garland was very improved this year and he had almost as good of a first half as he did in 2005. Garland should have fetched something half as good as the packages that those guys are fetching, meaning 2 top guys. The only way that we should have gotten the return that we did is if there are huge concerns with Garland's shoulder and KW dumped him off on LAA because both teams knew he was going to miss some time this year. Well I suppose the Freddy Garcia trade brought us back Gio and Floyd. One a top 50ish prospect, the other showed a bit late in 2007. Would you have preferred something like this return for Garland instead of what we got? I blame Juan Uribe's ineptness at the plate more than anything, for forcing KW to make a change here.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) My favorite aussie, our farm system has shown to be pretty cruddy lately. The only decent one is Young in Arizona. Josh Fields isn't decent?

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) i would not be complaining at all, and i would be very happy. To see my team go for it and stop making blathering excuses for once would be great. And if Hunter after 2 years of his deal, becomes a .240 hitter with only 15-20 HR's a season, and an OBP around the .300 mark, would you still be very happy that we are paying him $18M a season? Because I think something similar to that could become a very real possibility. He's not a middle of the order hitter, he's in his 30's, and he's obviously got a lot of wear and tear on his body after playing on astroturf for so long. Do we want to become like the Yankees where they are paying the likes of Pavano and Damon over $10M a season and they're not producing much at all? We HAVE to develop our young players. They offer payroll flexibility, and look at the Red Sox. Ellsbury, Buckholz, Pedroia etc. all young players contributing.

QUOTE(soxpride77 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:25 PM) Hall wouldn't cost that. He didn't have that great of a year last year, and he is not a superstar. I'm all for Tony Gwynn Jr. I think he is ready to break out if he gets regular at bats. the Brewers have too crowded an outfield. Ya Gwynn was a guy I suggested in another thread. IIRC, there was a rumor a while back that the Brewers actually wanted him to start somewhere next season. He's young and good fairly good speed, so he could certainly be an option.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:18 PM) I have no idea, as a paying fan i look for results and let him make the decisions. Quentin, Linebrink and Cabrera are good starts, we needs the power play now. Ok so those 3 guys are good starts. So does that mean he's doing a horrible job and fooled everyone right now? No. Quentin gives us a LF we control for 4-5 seasons, and he projects well. Linebrink albeit I don't like the signing, should be fairly reliable out of the pen. Upgrade on Mac and Thornton. Cabrera replaces Uribe, which for me is a HUGE relief. So it's a start, and obviously he still has a lot to do. Holes at CF, back end of rotation and the pen. But if we signed Torii Hunter for 5 years @90M, would you be happy with that (the big power play), or would you be complaining "Oh no, we overpayed for Hunter, KW you suck etc."? Basically so far it's been Quentin + Linebrink + Cabrera for Garland and Chris Carter. 3 major league pieces for 1, that should help this team next season.

Not defending the Garland trade, but besides the Santana talks obviously and the Willis deal (Miggy's the main part, and would have cost Maybin and Miller minimum), how many trades have there been for SP's bringing back top prospects? It's only superior SP's such as Haren, Bedard etc. that are being talked about as bringing back some real top prospects.

What would you have done to get Miggy Cabrera instead? Would you give up DLS, Gio, Fields, Danks and Floyd for him?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) Hall isn't going for Crede. The Sox could always throw in a reliever, considering they've lost Cordero and Linebrink already.

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) Bill Hall is someone the Sox are very very interested in. Hall to play CF perhaps, or maybe even be an option at 2B, if we still target a CF in FA?

Didn't see this anywhere else; Prospects I'm guessing?

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:47 AM) Interesting that the Palm Beach Post guy hasn't posted on his blog since the "halls were buzzing...." Who else could the Sox be targeting besides Fukudome/Jones/Rowand? Well there are a few possibilities still out there. I think we'll really try to sign one of those 3 you've mentioned above. A Quentin - F.J.R - Dye OF looks pretty decent to me. And of course we could try to dangle Konerko to say the Angels (who still need a big hitter), and try to get something like Juan Rivera, Casey Kotchman plus a spect back? That alone would free up about $10M in salary, and allow us to make another move (maybe get into the Kuroda market), or keep trying to beef up the pen, or hell use it to sign some stud prospects from Latin America or use it in the draft.

Well hopefully at least now, this shows KW the importance of having a damn good farm system. It's been neglected for years, and no longer can that continue if this team wants to get back on top of the division.

QUOTE(G&T @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:12 AM) Why? Even if he enters FA the Tigers would overpay to keep him because it would be a disaster for them to lose all their prospects and Cabrera after 2 years. We'd have a couple of things in our favor though. 1 - Surely he'd put up better numbers at the Cell instead of Comerica. Would help in his HR chase of A-Rod someday. 2 - The relationship with Ozzie. The big plus for us. Obviously it's going to cost a lot, but I think we'll have some big salaries coming off the books then.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) Kenny can always sign Miggy a few years down the road when he is say ... 35 and a free agent. Or a couple years when he's in his mid 20's, and just about to enter his prime. Of course that's if he doesn't sign a new deal with them (which is what I'm clinging to right now).

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) Wow just got done reading the whole thread and this makes me sick!! We have no chance at competing with the Tigers and Indians next year.. And its not like the Twins got much worse with losing Hunter.. As it is right now we are the 4th place team in the division... Damn it sucks having one of the worse farm systems!! Well the Twins could still lose Santana and Nathan, so right now I'm putting them down for 4th next season. As for the deal, obviously it's a heartbreaker for the Sox. The major thing right now, I HOPE Miggy doesn't sign a new deal with the Tigers. I hope he hits FA, and then we can make our move, because I would think if Ozzie's still around, we'd be his #1 choice. As for Willis, well there are big question marks on whether he can get it turned around or not. The move to the AL won't help, but at least he'll be pitching in a pitcher's park. I'd say something around a 4.00 - 4.50 ERA is what I would be expecting from him, so he should win around 15 games.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 09:29 AM) Really, how many spects will we get for Crede? He's coming off major back issues, heading into his final year as a Boras client. Per usual, we are now dealing (or trying to deal) a player WELL AFTER the peak market value for him has come and gone. We'll be lucky to get much for Joe. Not that I don't think he's a fine ball player, but this is easily the worst of all possible times to deal him since he was in A ball. Now genuis Kenny Williams is shopping him. ... this is almost as bad as Williams peddling Count during the ASB last year when he was pitching just so bad that one could have argued he should have been DFAd. Well obviously he has to show that he's healthy. I guess it also depends on what type of free agent ranking he is next off-season, and what compensation he'll get for the team that loses him (I don't know off the top of my head). I think there'll be a decent market for him though.

Magic finished off their road trip with an OT win over Golden State, probably best win of the season. 11-2 on the road, and we've only played 7 games at home. Top 4 should be the minimum right now in the East for us. And what about the rumors of Gasol not fitting into Iavaroni's uptempo system. Thomas + Nocioni + future 1st for Gasol?

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) As I mentioned yesterday I think this is a real possibility. Also it's my take the Sox would add something along with Crede to get something back they like. There was an article about a week or 2 ago that linked Garland to the Brewers, and the Brew Crew would give up a 3B spect who recently won the MVP in the Hawaiian Winter League (can't remember his name). Maybe the Sox could target an OF who could play CF, but won't be starting for the Brewers at the moment, Gwynn maybe? But I think it's a good fit for both teams, the Sox could always use the prospects in a Crede deal, and try to ship them elsewhere in a bigger package.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:47 AM) I just hope it's not to platoon with Jerry Owens in CF. Well if we don't sign one of Rowand or Jones, it's a better option than giving Owens the CF job all to himself. At least a platoon will give you decent production. Of course Burke would have to split AB's b/w 2B and CF against lefties, so Owens and Richar would have to still get some AB's against them.

Freaky. We were discussing this subject at work last Friday. Seems it made some waves down here.