DBAHO

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 11:08 AM) It's his numbers, they don't translate well to the next level. I thought we were talking about Callapso at first. Oops.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 07:38 AM) Why not? Scouting reports have him as a starting 2B for someone in 2008. What do you know that the reports don't? Have you seen him play? Please tell me more about him. I would love to read your evaluation of this player since you have actually seen him play and not just read some stats. Character issues perhaps?

Also a good piece here;

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:17 PM) phoenix A deal built around Shawn Marion and Raja Bell perhaps? How would a Nash and Kobe backcourt go? .01% chance of happening though. I think if he's going anywhere, it'll be the Knicks, if Mitch Kupchak can stomach a deal not involving Eddy Curry.

Based on the numbers he had for us last season in around 25 games, has there honestly been a bigger disappointment in numbers than Mike MacDougal this season? You could make a good argument and say no to be frank.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 02:51 PM) I really think adding Kershaw is pushing it. You know I would think so too. But this is Ned Colletti we're talking about here. He gave up Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza for Mark Hendrickson last season. Now Guzman's status as a prospect has slipped no doubt, but he was a top tier guy at the start of last season IIRC. So Colletti has shown he'll overpay in terms of prospects to fill a need. And Kershaw's only in A ball, so he's still a few seasons away. But he's one of the best in baseball still. QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 02:51 PM) Nah, you got to package Contreras in that deal. I wouldn't package Buehrle in a deal unless you are getting Betemeit, Ethier, Billingsley, Kershaw and Kemp (and no way do the Dodgers make that deal or at least I doubt they do). The key is, deal Contreras and Dye and than see what you can get for Iguchi, Uribe and whoever else in secondary deals (potentially Vazquez although I have no problem holding onto him, unless of course the Mets or some other team wow you with an offer). See if you get Thome to agree to a deal and talk with the Angels. Bottom line, reup with Buehrle, extend Garland....sign a few free agents but also use the money to re-up guys you do like and obviously spend some of it on scouting, etc. As much as I would love for Contreras and Dye for Betemit, Billingsley, Kershaw and Hu, I think that's too unrealistic. I think in order to get at least 2 prospects from the Dodgers system, along with the 2 B's, we're going to have to include Buehrle (but hopefully we don't have to).

Dye and Contreras for Betemit, Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw. Kershaw is now the Dodgers top rated pitching spect with Elbert having surgery. LHP, has a 7-2, 1.89 ERA record. He has given up 1HR in 62IP (that's Eggy like), and has a 82/33 K/BB ratio. This saves you about $15M in salary, and you use that money to re-sign Buehrle. But if you can't use Contreras, substitute Buehrle, and also ask for Chin Lung Hu to be included into the deal.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 12:04 PM) I'm being pragmatic. The league is awful. I'm just not willing to write him in as anything successful after he's busted for Philadelphia and sucked in the spring and now that he's doing good in AAA in the IL? No, I'm not willing to do that. DBAHO, Danks and Floyd are complete opposites of one another and the difference for them isn't a luxery. I'm not giving Danks a luxery when I say that he was young at all his levels and that's the difference between him and Floyd who is old for his levels and bad for them to boot besides this current stretch. -- Is it true that Floyd's stuff is back to what it was when he was a hot prospect? I don't think so. I've heard otherwise and ST was different. We'll have to wait and see when he comes up, eventually. I'm cynical about it. But I think you also have to look in those environments. I mean how many pitchers do well in ST in Arizona? Danks did, and that's why he won the job. But just because Floyd didn't, doesn't mean he's struggling to pitch well. Hell, how many pitchers in Philadelphia not named Myers and Hamels have done the job for the Phillies? We'll agree to disagree on this. And yeah the AAA certainly isn't nowhere near the majors in terms of talent, but Charlotte is a bandbox, and a lot of pitchers have struggled there before. It's why sometimes we've seen pitching prospects make the jump from AA to the majors, just to avoid that (or if they're ready which is another matter). I'm not in on the loop as much on Floyd's stuff obviously, because I'm not over there, and I don't have any contacts. What I do know, is in the last couple of months, I don't think he's given up any more than 4ER in his last 10 starts (or something like that) and his ERA has decreased from the high 4's, to the mid 3's, which tells me that he must be at least something right down there.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) God damn, I read this title...thought it was a report...and punched my desk. I feel sorry for your desk right now. I hope you apologized to it.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Completely different. Danks' history, his youth, the time it usually takes him to get acclimated to leagues -- all of it works in his favor while all of those same issues are opposites with Gavin Floyd. That's why John beat him out. So wait a sec. It usually takes Danks a while for him to get acclimated to a league, as his stats will show, he would go up a league and usually struggle, and then do much better the following season. Why not the same luxury for Floyd, in terms of yeah he's pitching in the IL again, but he's got better numbers to show for it (which possibly means something may have finally clicked, pitchers can be late bloomers), and he would be pitching in a worse pitching environment down in Charlotte I would dare say? I'm by no means dismissing John Danks here, I just think you've looked at what Floyd has done in the majors and thought "nope, he's got no chance of making it". What about Brandon McCarthy when he struggled the 1st couple of times he was up in the majors for us in 2005?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:55 AM) I don't care. I wouldn't care if he threw ten shutouts in a row, which he won't. I don't expect him to do anything at the Major League level and his AAA stats don't impress me much like I'm not impressed by, oh, Anderson or Aardsma or Fields or Getz or Rogo in AAA. It's not a good league and besides, it's AAA, not the ML. I'm sure Floyd would get ripped unless he were facing the White Sox. Don't take it to mean that I completely and absolutely discount stats in AAA. Of course not. If they bring up Floyd, I'm all for it. I'd rather he bomb out this year than next, when something might matter. I'm all for bringing up our other players, too. Whoever they want to bring up, bring them up this year, fine, but I'll wait and see what happens, and in a lot of our system's cases -- especially in Floyd's -- I don't expect it to be good. So before this season started, John Danks had an 4.33 ERA in 13 starts down in AAA for Oklahoma. Would that have meant you would have written him off as a non - contributor in the majors this season?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 04:49 AM) Brian Anderson for Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn walks. White Sox offer arbitration, White Sox receive 2 draft picks. Overall deal: Brian Anderson for 2 draft picks. Good deal. Ha. Balta you and I both know if there was ANY chance of that deal happening, it would have been made by now. Of course we also have to assume Reinsdorf would be ok with the sudden increase in payroll in a down year as well (unless we then traded Buehrle or Dye).

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 11:27 PM) MVP's okay, but he just doesn't seem to fit his character. He doesn't play the cocky asshole superstar that well IMO. He needs to study interviews with the TRUE arrogant jags, like Terrell Owens, Barry Bonds, Keyshawn Johnson, Rickey Henderson, etc. That would help him greatly, I'd think. He at least needs to play more to the crowd when he's on top. That's something that say Edge for example really does well. The potential is there, and his matches are getting better, but he's still got a ways to go.

Hmmmm;

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) (and I never have thought Ozzie is that good when it comes to young position players and helping them develop). Now that's a good point you make there Jason. If we're going to rebuild, is Ozzie the guy you want managing with that route? Are you worried about the futures of say Josh Fields? Is he going to end up the next Anderson IF he doesn't automatically produce solid numbers from this season? I suppose that could be a major reason why the Sox have drafted a lot of pitching of the past few seasons. Draft it, develop it, and then fill your lineup mainly through free agency and trades with veteran ballplayers. The only problem with that, they get old, and as we've seen this season their play won't be the same as previous seasons.

From the Trib;

I'm sorry but Dunn would not be a good acquisition. The only logic I can see from KW's part, is if he thinks Dunn can get us back on track, and if we can't sign him to an extension we get 2 draft picks for him. But obviously the prospects to give up to get Dunn are going to be better than 2 draft picks. Unless it was say Lance Broadway, Kyle McCullough + someone else, then maybe I could live with it, maybe.

QUOTE(BHAMBARONS @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) He will HAVE to improve his defense, his head in rear plays will not be tolerated in the major leagues. He had 13 errors which is a high number. That's what I'm worried about with him, which was why I thought the trade was a little suprising. Anything else you can tell us about him BHAM (since you're really the only one who's seen him play), in terms of will he ever be starting second baseman in the majors?

southsideirish, not every prospect when called up can be expected to produce immediately. Because Milledge and Pelfrey have struggled this season, does that mean they're busts now? No. Joe Crede took 3 seasons at the major league level to get his swing sortened out, and then he produced for 2 seasons. Alex Rodriguez didn't even hit over .235 in his 1st 2 seasons in the majors. It is unrealistic to expect an Albert Pujols or Miguel Cabrera type of situation for every highly rated prospect to automatically produce from the get go. So my point is, as much as we would want to trade for young established players at the major league level for Buehrle, that ain't going to happen because they're valuable. They offer you payroll flexibility to fill other needs. Unless a GM has lost it, they're not going to give up those type of players for Buehrle unless Kenny Williams turns into a great negotiator. But if we don't want to trade Buehrle, then we have to take 2 draft picks and develop our own prospects from scratch, becuase right now, I say it's highly unlikely Mark Buehrle is on the South-Side for 2008 no matter if we hold onto him or not.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 01:34 PM) Getting one would be lucky. Minaya wouldn't give up Milledge for 4 seasons of Joe Blanton. 3 months of Buehrle is worth a lot less. Well Joe Blanton had a 4.82 ERA pitching half his games in a plus pitching environment. Mark Buehrle has an ERA around the 3.50 mark after today's outing, so there's quite a bit of difference b/w the 2 pitchers in terms of talent and output.

Buehrle was Buerhle, only increasing that value of his. Josh Fields had himself a nice game as well. Good to get the monkey off our backs finally.

At 1st glance I'm not a fan of the deal. I think Cunningham is and always has been an underrated prospect. I think he's just one of those guys who is going to hit no matter where he is. He could be a guy who could hit for a good average at the major league level, in the Andre Ethier kind of mould. Plus he was always a favorite prospect of mine and most of the people here at Soxtalk, so it is kind of sad to see him go, after we pegged him as a sleeper as soon as he was drafted, and he didn't disappoint there. On Richer, I'm a little suprised we would deal for this type of infielder. On the one hand he's got good speed (if he can learn to steal bases), and he flashes a bit of power which is good. However, his defense is not good, and for a team that is drafting a lot of groundball pitchers, to have Richter at second base if his defense doesn't improve significantly, is going to cause a lot of problems. This is of course if he actually ends up being our 2nd baseman in the future, he might be nothing more than a utility guy. I think the Sox might be hoping Richar can turn into another Ray Durham type of second baseman. I think that's a bit optimistic though.

Looks like Sisco's got a LOT of work to do still. Convert him back into a SP already. And another good outing for Floyd. He's getting closer to the majors with each start it appears.

IT'S AN OFFENSIVE EXPLOSION!!!!

From the Newark Stark Ledger; Some names to consider here; Lastings Milledge - People know all about his talent. Hitting .333/.372/.436 in the PCL. Certainly attainable. Mike Pelfrey - Had a few starts for the Mets this season but hasn't produced with an ERA over 6 in 5 starts. So they might be down on him and he could be had. Phillip Humber - 7-5, 4.87 ERA in the PCL. Again not great, and he's had injury problems before. Still he's got excellent stuff if he can stay healthy. Fernando Martinez - Was the Mets #1 rated prospect going into this season by John Sickels ahead of Pelfrey and Humber. For Binghamton in AA has numbers of .268/.336/.366. Has great tools and is only 18, apparently just needs refinement. Carlos Gomez - Just been called up by the Mets. Played in 25 games, splits of .250/.269/.328. Has excellent tools, but there are questions about his power. Now these would be the 5 guys I would target. I'd want 2 MINIMUM out of this group, and I think closer to the deadline, if the Mets get desperate (and we might have to add a piece), we could maybe get 3, but we would be very lucky to do so.