The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) whether you think it or not it's reality. There is a big difference as to when to pitch. In the ninth there is no safety net, you pitch poorly the team loses. If you pitch in the 8th there is always a chance you can come back with offense. Picture if you worked for an insurance company and you have auto clients. You mess up ona couple of bad policies and you lose a few thousand dollars. Now let's say you handle flood insurance in a coastal region and messed up the re-insurance when Katirna hit. Same job different pressure. Pitchers also like defined role for the comfort and confidence. All players need this as it's a game of dealing with failures. when you are in a comfort zone it's easier to deal with these failures. Remember when Frank Thomas was blasted because he didn't want to screw up is pregame routine and the Sox wanted to change it to allow fans into batting practice early? All baseball players do this and need this. whether you agree or not, this is the mentality of the MLB player. Now some rare ones are mentality strong enough not to deal with it. However, nearly all of them need this routine to be comfortable. Yeah I agree with all of this. So much of it is mental. As a RP you don't really control much usually. Often you come in with men on you didn't allow and in a situation you had nothing to do with. And if you get to start a clean inning then great, but if you allow a baserunner your manager may pull you and you won't have a say in whether or not the run scores. Your manager or coaching staff as a whole may dictate what you throw and to who and in what sequence etc. You're expected to be sharp but you have to go out there not necessarily fully warm all the time and it really doesn't matter if you can't find the breaking ball because you're supposed to be capable of getting ahead with it 0-1 anyway. There's just so much you don't control and so little room for error. Roles and routines have to be present for everything to go right. But like I said in another post, you really need to be a winning team to have set roles anyway. You can't really have a s***ty team and a great pen, maybe a roughly average team and a great pen, but you need to be able to bring in certain guys with leads to protect and you need to have a starting staff that keeps things in order, and usually you need a quality LR option as well. The Sox kind of have the misfortune of being a bad team with rotation holes (maybe just one now but it is a huge one) that is also loaded with relievers who can't reliably throw strikes, so things are not looking up. I think what EMinor is saying though is definitely true in our case or in the case of any other team with a bad pen: since roles do not exist and can't really be established, each reliever is pretty much either "good" or "bad" judged in a vacuum, and the "good" ones need to pitch in really whatever situation because there are no other options, and the "bad" ones also have to be brought into whatever situation because there really are no other options.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 10:28 AM) Lol, and that's worked SO well so far. Also, a tangent point, I really hate how the whole "defined roles are the only way anyone can perform" adage is treated like some law of physics. Why do we accept that these guys need to be coddled and handed excuses? Your name is called -- get guys out! That's it! Quit being a weiner and do your goddamn job. The closer is the only guy who really has a predictable timetable anyway. Every other reliever could be called on at any time from the 6th to the end of the game depending upon matchups and how deep the starter goes. The "setup guy" probably gets the 8th inning in maybe 50% of the games, and that's only if he's the right handedness. It's all a bunch of agent crap, IMO. RPs are supposed to go in and get batters out. Don't allow runs somewhere between 8:30 and 10:00 at night. Doesn't matter what inning it's in, and if you're so delicate that you can only perform if you can pinpoint the exact moment that you'll get your ten minutes of work in, then go back to the Bush League. I think it's more of a mental/preparedness thing. When you have an idea when you will be coming in you are more "ready" than you would be otherwise. I think it's a comfort thing. Also the lack of established roles often leads to having to work multiple innings one day, a single batter the next, one inning here, two guys there, etc. and that can create an odd work/rest habit for a pitcher. Hawk always talks about how everyone needs a routine, and really that's true in life in general. Re: the inning stuff, it's not really an "inning" thing as much as a situational thing. Managers don't necessarily go to their closer in the 9th, they go to their closer in the ninth if they are winning, or maybe late in the 8th if they are winning, or maybe in the 11th after they've taken the lead, or top of the ninth with a tie playing at home sometimes, etc. A closer closes out games, a setup man deals with generally higher leverage situations, whether it is coming in for the 8th to start a clean inning and bridge to the closer or coming in with 1 out in the 7th to get the big double play or whatever, just basically dealing with men on. And so on. Players can read the course/flow of the game and can start to see when they will need to appear. If you are a good SU guy on a team with another good SU guy and you pitched last night, and your starter definitely looks like he is going 7, then you pretty much know you aren't getting in unless it is a catastrophy. Of course the other side of that is if every single day is a catastrophy, and you're spending a lot of time losing and behind on the scoreboard, regardless of inning, you can't really establish roles anyway. And now we seem to be in this spot, and it kind of becomes exactly like you say, where either you come in and get outs or you probably get released, sent back down to the minors, etc. Generally there isn't much you can do with a s*** bullpen. One thing you definitely CAN do however is give trust to the guys who have earned it. Robin's lack of trust in Putnam this year has pissed me off and is absolutely stupid. Let him prove he can't get the lefty out, let him prove he walked the guy because he's lost it, etc. The f***ing guy has earned it.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 11:31 PM) No mention of Zach Putnam in here? Well it's because sometimes when pitching the 9th inning left-handed hitters come up. You see, there are *some* right-handed pitchers who just simply cannot ever be left in to face left-handed batters and as a result never deserve the opportunity to do so. Now there's a reason for this somewhere but only Robin knows it and that's because he's a genius. But credit Robin for finally deciding it was time to pour a little baking soda on the massive grease fire. Clearly he's an excellent manager because he eventually decided to address an extremely obvious and glaring problem.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) 5 stars for Feeky 0 stars for DeAza in his trade season

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:47 PM) 4 is too low for the quality of my posting ability. Ability yes, you have a 4.1 star ability level, but like Alejandro DeAza, you routinely post at a level well below that. I will again rate your profile 5 stars, but please know it is purely out of sarcasm!

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) 5 stars right back at ya champ. Hey, where's Marty been? Haven't seen him around for a bit. I'm still waiting for you to post the laid back gorilla pick. Oh you mean the nude Freddy Garcia pic? Here you go:

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) That's because what we seek isn't "stats" or "eyes" -- these are merely mediums. What we seek is THE TRUTH I will rate your profile 5 stars, and also Dick Allen's profile 5 stars. Edit: I also rated wite's profile 5 stars out of pure sarcasm and St. Roostifer 5 stars because I forgot to do that yesterday. Did you know EMinor that Wite's 4 star rating was higher than either mine or yours, or DA's or Roostifers? That is terrible. I can't believe that. Good god.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) It's definitely important to not waste resources, but I think the key is that for guys that are Super Two targets, you're often doing more damage to your franchise by foregoing that production than you're gaining by saving what will likely amount to $3-7m IF the player actually becomes as good as you hope. Basically it's that if a guy is so good you have to try to remove an arbitration raise form him, the dude is gonna get paid anyway and you're going to have to dump him. There are very few situations where you'd keep a guy for one year at $12m but not at $15m, and what you have to do to save that money could cost you a playoff berth. YES. See, this is why you are one of my favorite posters here, because although we still disagree on some things, you get the big picture. I'm not on the stats side of things, and I'll always be an "eyes" guy first and foremost, but I like it a lot when "stats" people actually get it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) Believe what you want to believe about limited resources. This broke team that always just breaks even, was trying to spend over $100 million more than it spent last winter. Yeah I've come to side with you on this stuff now. I used to disagree with lines like this, now I know better. I think it's all about how long you've been following this game at a very close level. One of the first stages fans (like myself) go through is falling in love with prospects because you think that since so-and-so did this or that, and the guy you have looks as good or better, the prospect will turn into something amazing. Live and learn, usually they all suck or at least they don't live up to what they are billed as. And even someone who is as much of a "sure thing" as Rodon can fail, and has in the past, and injuries are often a factor. Conversely, "forgotten" or "bust" types like Connor Gillaspie are actually pretty damn good players to make it to MLB in the first place and receive playing time. So often these guys are completely overlooked while the prospects are endlessly fellated, and only later do people realize that Gavin Floyd is a s***load better than that Miller guy the Tigers traded and a whole host of other pitchers who suck balls. Maybe the Erik Johnson and Matt Davidson plummeting this year as well as the rises of players like Gillaspie, Noesi, Petricka and Putnam will provide some needed prospective for those who are currently in this stage. But after that stage IMO there is another stage, where you know more but you still believe the organizational bulls*** as a whole. Stuff like payroll, blah blah blah, they say one thing and do another. It takes awhile before you see enough examples of this stuff as a fan before you ultimately call bulls***, but when you do it is a wonderful and enlightening feeling. At that point you become an Ultimate Champion of baseball fandom, which is a stage most of us here will hit, and I do recognize others like DA have hit this before me. I'm still ahead of some of the other posters here though so that's cool. After all that there may be a 3rd stage, my guess is the Hawk stage, where you have seen so many strange things happen in this game that you just throw your hands up in the air and say "I don't even know anymore, and who gives a f*** anyway" and perhaps that is the stage often misunderstood posters like Marty and greg are in, they've just seen so much s*** that they don't even know anymore which is why other can't always understand them, but it doesn't mean they aren't in highly advanced stages of fandom. End rant.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing Konerko because I'm not, but the only thing he has going for him Hall of Fame wise is the counting stats and a World Series. He has never won any awards, never led the league in anything and his rate stats are not that great. His average fWAR for his career is about 1.9. That rates as average or even slightly below average. JAWS lists him as the 81st greatest 1B to play the game. He's 198th all time in OPS and just 381st all time in OPS+. As a 1B, that's not that great. That really says it all right there. There are 30 teams in the league now, and even though there used to be less, this game in terms of recorded history is what, 120-130 years old? And to top it off you had the steroid era inflating numbers, where pure hitters like Paulie, who really started to come into his own as that period was ending, would have statistically looked greater. Being #81 in the HISTORY of the game at any position is a f***ing amazing accomplishment. No, he shouldn't be in the Hall, but he's still been an incredible player and a huge piece of the heart of this franchise.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jun 27, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) Personally I feel that Sox fans have always overrated Konerko. You had the abysmal 2003 Paulie that slept all season long during what could have been a special season thanks to the Colon-Loaiza-Buehrle 3-headed monster at the top of the rotation plus two late inning forces in Flash Gordon and Damaso Marte. You also had 2008 Paulie that was IIRC determined to play through injury as we were trying to back into the playoffs/be less worse than Minnesota. However IIRC he did do pretty well in the playoffs that year, although it was only 4 games. Then you had 2012 Paulie who again took the field and helped slump the Sox out of the playoff picture. The one big positive was the near-.400 batting average through most of the first half of the season. Also you had 2007 Paulie who looked like he might be getting close to done, and 2013 and 2014 Konerko who pretty much is/was done. All in all you've had a lot of periods of disappointments with Paulie, several of which occurred during what was or what could have been playoff-type seasons. I think for that reason Paulie may appear to be overrated to some based off of his terrific 2005 regular season where he really anchored that lineup and his huge performance really all throughout the playoffs. But in the end, all you have to do is look at how long he played here and the numbers he put up as a whole. He's among franchise leaders in several major offensive categories and his numbers here are so great that he if nothing else is firmly in that group you would call "The Hall of Very Good" as an overall performer. So really I don't think he's overrated, I think Sox fans respect him as much as they should (a lot) and that his number 14 belongs up there for sure immediately. What I don't like this season are/were 2 things: 1) Dunn taking PAs away forcing people like that guy at SSS to write s***f***er (new term) articles about Paulie taking up a valuable roster space when in all reality it was always Dunn that was the turd, and 2) Paulie being Southpaw this year, this big green carpet looking thing that isn't a baseball player. Put him in the games more, especially at the expense of Giant Turd i.e. Adam Dunn, the guy deserves the respect and the fans deserve the opportunity to at least see him a bit more during his final season, especially since overall the product is absolute garbage anyway. I really don't think it's a stretch that Paulie could put up some halfway decent numbers this year in limited-but-still-notable playing time, because although the body may not be what it once was, the professional approach to hitting still is there.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) I pretty much agree with everything the Ultimate Champion has said in his last few posts. The mistakes Robin makes are f***ing amateuer hour stuff and it happens way, way too often. Great posts Champion I agree with your take on Robin and managers 100%. 75% of managers don't tilt the scale either way. Another 15% might actively hurt your chances of winning because of mistakes like you pointed out as #1. Another 10% might actively win you games by being an amazing tactician and/or motivator (Joe Maddon types). Even then though, I'm talking about MAYBE a 2 game swing because of bad or great managing. The manager doesn't really matter much but when the Sox get a good team again I sure as heck don't want Robin managing it. Thank you very much. I will rate your profile 5 stars in appreciation. Also, this is for you: And this one is for southsider2k5: And this one is for wite: And this one is for KyYlE and I to share:

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) I'll be honest, I quit reading right there. Ozzie got almost the exact same spate of complaints about how he handled pitchers and bullpens. He also got crucified for his "sunday line ups" and running needlessly with two outs. You have to play your bench. Ozzie didn't have to play them all at once, but he did have to play them. Ozzie was a halfway decent manager at worst when it came to the on-field stuff. Scoscia would manage the pants off him, good managers would catch him on things, but in general there was nothing wrong with most of what he did on the field. There is a line between bad and great, Ozzie was more toward the middle, Robin has been more toward the bad IMO. And I absolutely loved how Ozzie handled his pitchers for the most part. I love the trust he put in them. My main compaint was the way he mishandled specialists, but I think that was more of Ozzie sending a message to his GM that he didn't want one out guys, he wanted guys who could pitch to both sides of the plate. In that manner I would fault his philosophy just as I would fault the idea of having to have a fast guy at the top of the lineup whether he sucks or not, i.e. the idea is fine in theory but in reality the game of baseball is difficult enough and most teams simply don't have 7 guys in the pen who can pitch to both lefties and righties or have that prototypical lead-off hitter. Overall though, mid-tier. The Tigers fans acted as though Leyland was crap but you have to admit, definitely more mid-tier at worst and he did a lot of the things Ozzie would do.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) I think this year has been better than last year, except for a couple of the more stupid players. In general, when your pen sucks, there isn't much to manage. For much of the season, he has been arms short out there, and relying on minor leaguers and DFA's to do jobs that they shouldn't be doing. It is like asking a world class sprinter to run a marathon. They just aren't that good. The other side of the coin is that when play are made, everyone forgets about them. That's why it seems so unbalanced. If you don't believe me, pick another team, and watch what their fans say about them. Every single manager in baseball does incredibly stupid and obvious things, according to their own fans. I agree with this. I guess I'd phrase it this way: 1) you have your base-level, amateur, inexperienced manager type mistakes; this includes things like lack of focus, not looking beyond the current situation as much as necessary, etc. and to me these could indicate a lack of diligence, preparedness, etc. 2) you have your few mistakes of really whatever variety here and there that anyone else could and would make 3) you have a ton of variables involved on a situation-to-situation, game-to-game basis where multiple options are present re: each decision you have to make, and choosing the "wrong" option according to the fans is choosing any seemingly viable option that doesn't end up working out... and in the context of a bad bullpen, at any given time, there may be 2 options neither of which are really viable and the decision is likely to look "bad" I think Robin makes too many of the #1 types of mistakes. The #2 types you don't worry about, when something dumb happens you just say "oh well" because these things happen. The #3 types aren't even mistakes, they are just baseball decisions that don't work out. I think Robin needs to cut the #1 types of things out, show a better general understanding both of the game and his players, and if he doesn't start doing that soon he should be canned.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) If Ozzie Guillen got 8 seasons, Ventura deserves 20. Ozzie was a much better game manager than Robin. Ozzie was more middle of the pack in that respect. In his first couple/few seasons, before his ego got the best of him, the way he would handle the clubhouse and media and get the players to play for him overall made him an asset. Ozzie's #1 biggest issue was ego, and his #2 biggest issue wasn't really even his fault, it was Reinsdorf's fault, by letting him be part-GM and help do Kenny's job. I guess the thought with Robin was that he could be an Ozzie-like manager in terms of dealing with the public and clubhouse, and could keep things in order, without all the ego stuff, self-importance, without all the feelings of entitlement that he should be allowed to make GM types of decisions or heavily influence what the GM wanted to do, etc. **IF** Robin could develop into a mid-level, Ozzie type of game/field manager and do the above then we will have an asset. But 3 years into this thing and I see still the glaring brain farts, none more glaring than micromanaging the IF defense while allowing your corner OFs to play shallow routinely, falling for the fake bunt and drawing the 3B in so the hitter can smack the ball by him when the guy at the plate isn't even a threat to lay down a good bunt anyway, not getting his relievers up in time and deciding to overtrust and undertrust players, etc. Just the basic stuff. I will say that I like a few things, like his use of Nieto this year and so on, basically taking a chance and adding a bench player as mostly the backup C role is a spot that isn't even used. On the whole he's bad though. I could get behind the idea Chisoxfn through out there about a new bench coach. If this is mostly/largely Parent's work then HE GONE. IMO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) So you grasp all of that, but are still looking to light the torches... Um, OK. That makes no sense at all. The larger point you are glossing over is that there are other options to lead this thing. It's not as though rebuilding efforts can only prove successful if they occur under the managerial genius of Robin Ventura. If the FO wants to half-ass the managerial part of the product while it is going through changes then whatever, that's their choice, but I think it's unnecessay. I think the best thing (for Robin) that anyone can reasonably say is that he should be re-evaluated after the season. This is his 3rd year and if by the end of Year 3 it's still "what you see is what you get" then that isn't going to cut it.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) See, this is an argument that isn't winnable, so congratulations, you win. There's always a built-in excuse with the White Sox. This is the Alejandro DeAza argument I think. Is DeAza "good enough" to be a part of our core going forward? No. Is DeAza "good enough" to be here now, since we're already bad and rebuilding, and since the games don't matter anyway? Most people would probably say "yes" or at least "it doesn't matter that he's not good because we're not playing for anything." But, there is a difference between playing a marginal at best quality of player who DOES make good, smart baseball decisions and playing a marginal at best quality player who DOES NOT make good, smart baseball decisions and that is probably best set underneath the umbrella of "culture" or "attitude" or "winning mentality" and etc. Is Robin "good enough" to manage a contending team? No. Is Robin "good enough" to manage a rebuilding team that isn't talented enough to win and isn't playing for anything anyway? It seems like most are saying that it doesn't matter because no other manager could turn this thing around anyway. But, there is a difference between running out a competent manager that makes competent baseball decisions, and running out an abysmal manager who hasn't developed and still does not make good, smart baseball decisions. And if you also as in the DeAza example above quantify that as something intangible and difficult to measure, you're still quantifying it within a realm managers are expected to be judged and under an umbrella that managers are supposed to live under anyway. I.E. are we doing the little things right? No, and our manager isn't either. Do we have a winning attitude? Yes, at times, but we're a young team and we should. We *should* have players out there excited to take the field because they are all, or at least should be, playing in younger bodies on younger legs and personally motivated by the prospects of a long, lucrative Major League career which they've all dreamt about since childhood. So is Robin "good enough" to manage this team? No, I don't think so anymore, because he hasn't developed as a manager the same way the org expects the players to develop. He's tuna, put him in the net and can him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) I'm all for not screwing around with guys because of super 2 status. If the guy belongs in Chicago, have in play in Chicago. In the short run, he will help your team win. In the long run, he won't ever be able to hold that against you. Just think how you would feel or have felt if an employer played some games not to pay you what you deserve. Agree with all of this. If he's ready to learn at the MLB level then let him learn. The "clock" stuff is all bulls***. It's funny also how no one ever seems to acknowledge the MASSIVE ASSUMPTION that whatever unproven prospect people happen to be talking about at the time will make it as a quality MLB player. The only way arb/service time ever matters is if the player is good enough and is also healthy enough to remain in the league that long. These are not foregone conclusions here. The minors/college/etc. to the Majors is a massive jump that tons of "can't miss" types have failed to make in the past.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:49 AM) Come on man, look at Gardenhires win totals the last couple years, he won 66, 66, and 63 games. When you have garbage pitching, you get garbage results. Yeah Gardenhire, just like Robin, isn't going to make a bad team into a contender. However, Gardenhire, unlike Robin, is a high-quality MLB manager who is perfectly capable of leading a talented team.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) And if he leaves Quintana in and he blows it, you get people asking why he left the starter in so long, especially a rookie starter. It's not like we don't already hear that with Sale. Robin is in a no win situation, as all baseball managers are. When the guy gets through the 8th on like 7 pitches of which 6 are strikes and the hitters are completely f***ed mentally and are behind the fastball and in front of the change you don't need to go to your closer. I love the shift stuff, that's the best. Pay waaaaaaaay too much attention to what is happening on the IF but let your s*** corner OFs play shallow. I'd like to put Robin on a double decker plane, Robin and a bunch of Alexei-looking stick people in the upper portion in first class and a bunch of Biiiig BERTHA!! plumpers in the lower deck. Then let's do the same thing, shift all the plumpers in the lower deck to one side of the plane and let the Alexei stick people stay exactly where they are. When the plane tips over maybe he'll understand how stupid it is to focus all his energy on half the defensive setup and none on the other, but then again, maybe that little raisin of a brain in his skull, upon flipping over, will clink against the top of his skull and give him a new idea for once. God this guy is bad. FIRE HIM NOW!!! Trade for Gardenhire also, even though I know it can't/won't happen. I luuuuuuv Ron Gardenhire.

BTW greatest Rpobin f***up moments: I'll start with the 2012 game he blew something like a 6-run lead in the 9th by going with a s***ty "get his work in" player and then forgetting to get his pen ready, and then bringing in guy after guy cold until the lead was gone. I think they lost that one in extras. Also constantly refusing to trust Q in his rookie season and having Reed blow like 2 games that should have been CGs. This guy is terrible, I hoped he would develop as a manager, clearly not.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 11:16 AM) Haha. People talk about him like he's done as much as guys like Mazzone and Duncan and he clearly hasn't. He's a very good pitching coach who's done a lot for the organization and knows what he's doing, but he's not without fault. He's so far in the black that when he takes a slight loss in this or that aspect/area you almost overlook it completely.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) If Robin is really that comfortable putting the game in the hands of Don Cooper, then why does he want to be manager in the first place? Eventually, he's going to have a Harry Truman/General Douglas McArthur moment where he realizes the two of them can't co-exist unless he wants to be totally emasculated as a manager. As far as Cooper goes, Noesi/Putnam/Petricka are all wins for him. Did anyone expect much out of Danks again, for example lower than a 4.00 ERA? If you're going to blame him for Scott Downs, Erik Johnson or Daniel Webb, then we might as well blame Jeff Manto for Keppinger. Coop has, as always, done a terrific job. Erik Johnson may need a new brain. Downs, that's the game you always play with vet relievers. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose(*edited for f***up). Kudos to Hahn for getting the 1 year deal with an option he could get out of. Daniel Webb will need to not walk the world. He rose quickly through our system and right now as a somewhat useful MLB reliever with the potential to be a lot more, I'd say you don't count him as a miss at all. Robin is just dumb. Shift the f*** out of the IF, forget completely about the OF. Why is the 3B in right there? Don't trust this guy at all, trust that guy way too much. Go with the lefty who sucks instead of the righty that gets the job done. When you going to get the pen going, never? This guy is a s*** manager, it's like he's a fan watching the game and then making moves after everything else happens. Like he's behind the thinking process of the opposing manager and even behind the thought process of the announcers both on TV and over the radio also which is absof***inglutely embarrassing. The guy may have been a great player and leader but he's a s*** manager. You're supposed to be ahead of what is happening out there. This guy makes Ozzie look like a brilliant game manager. And Jesus, I'm always one of the first here to point to the job of a manager as being 1) clubhouse first and lead there, making sure players don't get too high or low and egos are in check, and the personal life stuff is sorted out, 2) media and other stuff second, keeping distractions out of the clubhouse, 3) allowing the GM to operate and get his message across without having to be in the clubhouse or having to have some sort of player relationship, and 4) then comes the in-game stuff. But Robin, even as good as he may be at the first three (and we really wouldn't know for sure how good he is there anyway) is sooo f***ing bad at managing a baseball game that like, f*** the first three, get this guy out of here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:41 AM) I agree that Cooper is overrated and goes without criticism far too often, but I really don't want anyone else acting as pitching coach. OH NO YOU f***IN DIDNT

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) That's not the fault of the advanced stats, it's the fault of the author. Those numbers are NOT good for a reliever, and especially not for a platoon specialist. Okay, that makes sense then.