The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) Enormously small. You are being too pessimistic. Consider how this organization was able to turn around players like Juan Uribe and Matt Thornton, and how well they identify good young pitching. Hahn may make a deal that on paper looks like we're getting a s***ty player, but don't look at the numbers, look at the talent. Beckham and Viciedo have enough talent to bring back talent in return. Think of it this way, of all the good young players the Sox have acquired in the last maybe 20 years or so, how many of these guys came in the prototypical "blockbuster" type of trade? Most of these guys, for us, have been reclamations, free agents, small Soptic-for-Gillaspie/Miles-for-Uribe deals, etc. The Sox probably aren't going to "win" any Sale deal and probably not a Q deal either, but they could definitely "win" a Tank or Beckham deal getting talented guys in return.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) Ah, yes, the return for Tank and Beckham is going to be enormous. If we can get a Maurer type out of Tank then, while maybe "underwhelming" at first according to the numbers, that could be a huge benefit to us. Ideally IMO out future rotation is Sale-RHSP-Q/Rodon-RHSP-Q/Rodon. Noesi has the ability to be a #3 type, will he or won't he reach that? We don't know, but pick up someone like Maurer, and let's say both Mauer and Noesi turn it around under Coop. You then have an excellent starting rotation that is well balanced, and guys like Beck, Montas, Danish, Erik Johnson, etc. they are just icing on the cake if one of them pans out. Then we have depth. That's ideal. So in short, Tank can bring back upside, even if it comes in the form of an underachieving player. Conversely, you don't get "upside" at all out of Dunn. Just doesn't happen. Re: Beckham, who knows? There's still some upside there too, and a solid 2B under team control to a contender does have value. Beckham is a 1.5 season player. Going to the leaked Astros notes for reference, the Jays at one point at least considered dealing Stroman, probably for some of the same reasons KW, Billy Beane, and the Phillies GM at the time (Gillick?) all traded Gio. Well we are not getting Stroman now, but given how AA is basically Toronto's Kenny Williams and trades prospects like few others do, if we can identify the next Stroman in Toronto's system maybe we can get that guy for Beckham. Toronto has a very good system depthwise it apppears (going off of probably 6-8 years worth of observations where they call up or trade players who prove to be at least MLB caliber in some role) and we could potentially get something there. Again, just as with Tank, we can target upside with Beckham even if it is someone further away or underperforming but MLB ready. We are getting zero upside out of Dunn and that's just how it is.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) Oooo I can't wait until the sox trade off useful MLB assets for nothing!!! Rebuilding is so fun! No, we should actually get something out of our useful MLB assets. Dunn is not in that conversation. That conversation ATM is pretty much Alexei, Tank, Beckham, maybe a couple other names sneak in there like Danks or Putnam.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) I expect nothing. And so shall (we all) receive! The best thing about this looming deal is the psychological aspect, just that "healing" feeling for the fanbase. And I think that's all we're going to get.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) I think Taylor will get a shot eventually. I just wanted to give you some more s***, because it's fun. This relationship is becoming abusive Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm the Ultimate Champion or the Ultimate Tina Turner

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:44 AM) That sounds a heck of a lot like Michael Taylor, and they haven't gotten rid of Dunn yet, so nanner nanner. I don't know about that, I mean Moises Sierra was a good prospect in Toronto and he isn't playing. I think that between Tank/DeAza/Dunn if the Sox had anyone that they felt was MLB ready, one of the 3 would be gone or on the bench. If they think Taylor is worth playing then my guess is he's only in Charlotte because they want him to work on things there without using up his service time. But if the Sox genuinely feel could be an answer at some point then he'll be out there when he's ready and there will be casualties. I hope you're right though and he is someone we at least think is worth a shot.

^Also that is very sad, that our system is so barren we can't even call up a shot-in-the-dark type of prospect to throw out there instead of Dunn. We literally have nothing. Cupboard is bare.

We're not getting anything out of him anyway so it really doesn't matter. I can't even believe I'm saying this but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to even move him right now just because we have no one else to play. I'd like to try Tank at DH but it's entirely possible that Hahn wants Tank in the field to try and somewhat maintain whatever trade value he may have. Viciedo may not be in the Sox plans at all, at any point, at any position. As soon as Hahn acquires a position player that needs and is worthy of the PA, whether it's an MLB ready prospect or a reclamation type, Dunn should be gone.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:11 AM) So I didn't get much last night and it took awhile to pry anything out but it appears the dangling of immediate playing time wasn't as effective as expected and they have been asking for over slot. Still confident this gets done. They were kind of shocked that the trigger wasn't pulled already. That's about all.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 12:09 AM) Damn Rock/Bucket AND anyone who uses "complicated" statistical analyses to make their points...if they can explain bwar and fwar and nuclear war and +WRC, they should be banned and start their own "value over replacement" sites for geeks and pocket-protector wearing nerds. USA! USA! USA! Would MLB even allow the White Sox or Astros to steal thunder from the ASG Selections by announcing Aiken and Rodon signings? I'm sure they would prefer Monday press conferences. I don't think that 2 s***ty teams signing a couple prospects no casual fan has ever heard of would steal thunder from anything. Aiken is hurt? And Rodon's agent is BorASS so that's why.

I will take this Maurer kid for Viciedo. Close the deal after the game.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) With attendance being awful this year, and the team losing money last year, I'd bet we look to dump the full salary, and take back a lesser prospect. If it weren't for Sale and Abreu this year our attendance would actually be negative. Empty chairs would sprout legs and walk into the stadium on their own, placing themselves wherever they see fit, including on the OF grass. Fielders would be falling/tripping/DeAzaing all over the place as these rogue empty chairs streamed their way onto the field. Also any prospect for Dunn is a lesser prospect. So much lesser that he's not even a prospect. Rubbing my crystal balls it says that whoever we get out of Dunn - after we eat the whole thing - will rank no higher than 15 on even the most optimistic Sox prospect lists. If the acquiring team takes on $1-2M then it's not even a top-30 guy.

CC is out for the year and someone else posted that the Yanks were looking at him. KW has long loved Betances and Banuelos apparently, though I'm not sure how much that flame flickers anymore, but Hahn has been on their catchers since at least the offseason. Seems like it could work, but I'd want something back, not just a dump. Danks looks like he could still be a winner, and if so the salary isn't a problem, really the move would be more about clearing a lefty slot for Rodon IMO. Thoughts/rumors on this?

John Link/Michael Dubee as the centerpiece with Travis Hinton/the monster prospect we got out of Thome as the second. I'd rather acquire a Brandon Hynick but I'm not sure another club would be willing to go that far. Also we're going to eat the whole thing, just as some of us here knew all along. The most important thing though is that he will be gone. If sTank is still here he can take the DH PAs and continue to try to prove himself with the bat and at least not butcher so much in the field. Hopefully we'll have someone to stick in the OF that will be worth playing (which we would acquire elsewhere) but my guess is no. This team blows.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) I'd really like to not hear "El Canon" this weekend, it just doesn't work. Es mal. Definitely need something else. IMO the Cannon is an extension of the missle/Tank stuff but since Abreu is twice the player Alexei is and 50times the player Viciedo is I don't hink his nickname should be associated with those guys.

The only one I don't like it that "hot salad" or "hot mustard" or whatever it is people say about someone who sucks. That's terrible andc desreves to rot. Peronally I would drive a bag of balls to the airport to make that go away. No risk high reward.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) What a bunch of killjoys around here. The hackneyed clichés are the thing that makes Hawk most distinctive and tolerable. I suppose a more random old-guy surliness is preferable? And the WE thing shouldn't be bothering anyone. Some of us have been rooting so long, and have spent so much money on merchandise and at the park, that it's natural to describe oneself as part of the collective fanbase with the term WE. Noone is fooling themselves into thinking they share the same desires and goals in lockstep with the org itself. It's harmless, get over it. I agree with this post but I would like to move it to the other thread. This thread is about foam scrotum hats and other new and exciting offers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) Chopper, two hopper...should be replaced by the one referring to Matt Abbatacola for any play with a broken bat. So TUC, sorry about the broken/limp/cracked piece of wood, dude. "That's a Matt Abbatacola." Oh I took the limpness as being Hawk's general attitude. IMO a Matt Abbattacola is when you get your foreskin caught in your zipper. Anyway, any other new products out there I might be interested in? Thanks I'll hang up and listen.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) But if girls saw it, they would say "He gone!" and be disinterested. Food for thought I have eaten that food. Maybe a good foam scrotum hat would be one with Hawk's face on it and a jimmy hole where the nose would be. Also featuring the Captain Hawk eye patch accessory with special limited edition parrot which you can strap to your taint when you are feeling especially tropical. However unlike the item in this thread I do believe Hawk himself would have to sign off on it, I'm not so sure you could sell Hawk merchandise without his consent.

Cool. I see there is a hole in the bottom. As such I don't think I'd use it for beer, I think I'd stick my willy through the hole on the bottom and use the coozie as a hat for my balls.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jun 29, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Just 1 XBH though (a 2B) from 14 hits. What a gentleman this Peter is holding back his emotions to take second 13 of 14 times. Now it would be easy to think he's just being a tease, but I think Peter has a plan here. Right now we can call his SLG% softcore but just watch, pretty soon he'll be diving headfirst into 3rd and plowing his way home.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 03:24 PM) Yea that's right. On another note, Toronto needs Beckham. I'll take Stroman for him! Cubs are dumb even asking for that kid. If you want a talent like that for Samardizja you'll need to find one in A ball somewhere.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 02:56 PM) Tyler is awful, but how any GM could acquire L. Garcia is beyond me. He is horrible. Keep Tyler the rest of the season but dump Leury now. Sox have done the right thing by dumping Kepp and Downs. Time to dump L. Garcia or send him to the minors where we can forget about him. Why in the hell would they do that? Leury is a very useful player on the whole. It's because we are a dogs*** team playing a bunch of games that don't matter that Leury doesn't look useful. A lot of contenders would probably like to have him, especially NL teams, they just wouldn't give up a ton for him. You could trade him for a RP maybe but I really don't see the point. You could always acquire relievers, often completely for free giving up nothing via FA, MiLB FA, waivers, etc. Leury isn't the reason we suck.

Robin actually trusted Putnam to get out of the inning on his own today. Wow. Maybe he is getting it, we'll see. If he pulls him for a lefty-on-lefty matchup next time out then Robin still hasn't gotten it. Putnam's splitter may not move like Belisario's does, but it is a far more effective pitch because it does dive and he keeps the ball down. I don't give a f*** if the guy in the box is a lefty or righty or what inning it is, right now if there's any one pitch you want thrown to any one batter by any one reliever in our pen in any given situation, it's Putnam's splitter. Close second is Petricka's sinker, again no surprise because he keeps it down.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 28, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) How do you know this? It's an excuse. None of us "needed" this in little league, High School, or American Legion when I played. We all did just fine. When your role is "pitcher" and you are doing it for fun because you want to and you are unpaid regardless of performance, and when you have really no pressure and play in an environment where stats don't matter... it's very different. I need a routine to get my ass out bed in the morning and start the day. I think so do most people. You also need a role pretty much anywhere, and if your "role" is more of a jack-of-all-trades type or something where you do a lot of different things and make different types of decisions, you at least need to be able to identify what your strengths and weaknesses are so you know what you can or should do and what ou should have someone else do.