The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Would ANYONE fire Hahn and keep Ventura instead (in one of those hypothetical situations where you have no choice but to lose one or the other)? I bet those in favor of that would be comprised of....well, who exactly would take that position? Why? If I had to lose one or the other I'd fire Robin. If I didn't have to choose one or the other I'd still fire Robin. Hahn has been active and has made some good moves. He's had 2 pretty good looking drafts as well. We'll see, but he needs a few years. In general, the decision making process seems sound with Hahn, not so much on the part of El Managandro DeAza, and that to me should be the new hOtFiRe.

^That said, Downs will pass through release waivers unclaimed, declare FA, and someone else will give him a shot. Given the nature of this game, and knowing his career, it wouldn't be too surprising to see him come up with someone mid-July as a lefty specialist and end the year with decent numbers. That's just how it is. But no way could the Sox keep sending this guy out there, especially with the vesting option.

And this is one of the things I hate about the advanced stats: "Nevertheless, ERA estimators are somewhat more favorably disposed to Downs’s work on the year, as he owns a 3.69 FIP, 4.07 xFIP, and 3.96 SIERA. While his 58.5% strand rate is one mark that looks prime for regression, that is also perhaps a reflection of the fact that he has been less than successful in his LOOGY role. On the other hand, Downs has held opposing left-handed hitters to a .225/.309/.367 mark; his real issue has been with righties, who own a .296/.415/.364 triple-slash against him." Anyone who has followed the games this year know he has been terrible. Multiple times he has been called in to face 1-2 batters and has done so without even recording an out. That 6+ ERA is deceptively *low* not high, thanks mainly to the fact that guys like Putnam and Petricka, being used similar spots in the game, have bailed his ass out. Funny though, last night's performance against Davis was a good one IMO where pitch selection got him, and that's not on him. He threw what Flowers wanted and Flowers wanted the wrong thing. But still, overall the guy has been very bad and if whatever measure you are looking at says otherwise then either the measure is garbage or you have to say there's not enough data yet for the measurement to prove effective.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:34 AM) If he was going to be fired for the way the team played it should have been last year. I don't care about the record really. There's nothing he can do to make this team a contender. I also think he at least is pretty good at getting his players to play and keeping the clubhouse in order. I just think he's a s***ty baseball manager.

QUOTE (bulokis @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:31 AM) Ventura was one of my favorite White sox player but I think once we are definitely competing, we need a different manager. The same thing the Blackhawks did with Savard and replaced him with the Q'stache. Yeah I loved watching Robin play. I also think he's a great guy and is a good "leader" type for sure. What I don't think is that he's a good manager. IMO the Robin experiment is pretty much exactly why you don't just take a Paul Konerko type and make him a manager, like KW was also considering.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) Every year he managed the Sox, fans wanted LaRussa fired. Then he gets fired and almost 30 years later, they still will use Hawk firing him as exhibit A how awful a GM he was. If Robin had 1/10 the baseball acumen of Tony LaRussa I would agree. I think Robin was the clubhouse order/who gives a s*** guy that would keep egos under control and wiould then develop into more of a traditional manager. Robin IMO has not developed. Robin is El Managendro DeAza

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:25 AM) I think Robin has earned a lifetime contract. Be careful what you wish for, especially when the one granting those wishes is Jerry Reinsdorf.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) Done. Dont bring up the camel ever again Sorry. I enjoyed it, I thought we both did...

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) Robin Ventura will never be fired. There will be a mutual parting of the ways--probably in few years. He's Point A to Point B Guy. God I hope it doesn't take us a "few years" to get to point B. 2011 was trash, we added nothing going into 2012, so really the ST going into the 2011 season was the only exciting point to be a Sox fan over the last few years (outside of a couple months in 2012 when they looked like they might make an improbable run but went like 0-50 vs. the Tigers).

I DID IT! I READDED A POLL!

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 26, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) this is the Failiest Fail of Fail ever from TUC.

KyYlE, you are in this thread, we are great friends, we once shared a camel and a virgin, and traded blankets... please do me this favor and make me a poll using my options above. I'd ask wite but he'd be a dick about it. I can't do it myself, I'm not wearing mod pants.

f*** I didn't check a box or something I think! Mother of damnit. Options were something like: #1 we fire him now or around the All-Star break, start the transition #2 we fire him at the end of the season no matter what #3 we re-evaluate after the season #4 we don't look to fire him because we think he's done at least a decent job with what he has been given

I made a poll but there's no poll!?!?!

So there, it's a poll. Right now I'm leaning to Option #2, he's nowhere near this 2015 team, but I'm also a little bit looking at Option #1, because if he's gone during the year with Parent finishing the season out then it gives the organization time to look for a veteran skipper that can do this job a bit better now & definitely a ton better as soon as we're contending. Having to do a big manager search early in the offseason can set the offseason back, and also, more openings out there after the season could make it harder for us to get our guy. But in my mind, this should be his last year. I know he was "extended" and what not, but whatever. I also know the common line about JR not wanting to eat deals, but JR isn't going to have any problem paying Robin to sit at home. In fact I would bet the Sox would try to reassign Robin before outright canning him. I'd love to trade for Ron Gardenhire, not happening, no way in hell that happens, but I'd love it.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 08:02 PM) Oh I agree, but Peavy landed your exact package a year ago. IMO, Ramirez should get you a little more than that simply due to positional scarcity. Again, I'm not expecting a Mark Texeria type return here, but a prospect with a little more polish than Asivail Garcia (not significantly more) should be required to move Alexei at the deadline. I think 3 players, one similar to Avisail, on similar to Montas who was the second piece, and then instead of 2 longshots at the end you have someone in between the Avisail and Montas types, maybe an MLB reliever or a good prospect, something like that.

All this speculation on Surkamp? Need I spell it out for you? R O D O N ....okay so it's probably Surkamp for now but Rodon is coming soon!!! Believe!

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 09:33 PM) (I know it says New York but it's Baltimore in the middle) Red means severe thunderstorms for anyone who doesn't know. Just throwing that out there in case someone thinks we're actually having a fire delay, it's just rain, it'll be gone soon.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 09:30 PM) Jen Lada is hot. That's all I've got.

Hi this is Scot from Scotts. Get them bloody scones out the oven blahahrrha if you've got Weeds you don't fook around with that bloody crap you get yourself the Weed & Feed and put those Weeds out for good Take that ya bastards

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 08:46 PM) Hawk seems beyond pissed at the pitch calling That slider Downs through was garbage, he's out in front of everything and looking inside, you can get him on the outside part of the plate with the fastball right there, even though under other circumstances Davis can hit that pitch out. Flowers is s*** behind the plate calling pitches. I mean Weeds, sorry.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 08:44 PM) What did Putnam do wrong besides getting two fly outs? Throw right handed Robin the Idiot once again mismanaging an already bad bullpen.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) Yea but no more Harold Baines Where is Harold?

s***ty nickname lineup: Weasel Bacon Flanders El Canon Big Stupid The Cuban Stick The Cuban Turd El Coco Weeds El Coco is going to have a great game IMO, 1 double, 1 2- base error, a clutch hit in the 8th leading off & caught stealing/picked off immediately.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 25, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) Blowasavio is hilarious. Seriously promoting HotfIRE to the group was the single funniest thing I've ever read on here...and then it went in his sig forever lol. So funny. Where is that dude lately? And to hijack a bit: buckets of Semien is the king of names in my book. I haven't been around since the beginning so I'm curious if there were any other names that rival its greatness...from the days of soxtalk infancy. Buckets of Semien is great but unfortunately he hasn't been here in a while I don't think