Lip Man 1

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) When he does that, he isn't doing it for strategy. I think that is the disconnect here. To me he is trying to ingrain the skill into certain guys skill sets so that when they really do need it, they have the ability and count/situation are not something they are thinking about because they will have done it under all circumstances. Certainly possible given the circumstances. Some of these guys I suspect will be with the team in a few years and expected to make a contribution. Actually knowing how to execute the lost art of fundamentals can only help them and the team as a whole. If you have to learn how to do these things at the big league level (which leads to another question for another day) then learning in a rebuilding year would be the preferred way to go in my opinion.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 04:15 PM) Gene Lamont came in for the 1992 season, and lost 1 more game than Torborg did in 1991 despite losing his starting SS for the season to injury, and then won the division the next 2 seasons. Torborg went to NY lost 90 games buyimg beer and pizza in 1992 and was canned with a 13-25 record in 1993. So? Torborg never wanted to go to New York that's one of the points I was making. Certain guys are right for certain organizations. I'd easily be willing to bet the Sox would have won with Jeff in 93 as well. Thinking about it here's two examples of how a manger can make a difference. Torborg moved Calderon who was a butcher in right field to left for 1990. Look up the video of the number of great catches he made that season including the last game at Comiskey Park LaRussa moving Fisk a power hitter into the #2 slot in 83' a bat control situation when he was struggling. How'd that turn out for ya? And a bad manager, a manager the players hate (cue: Terry Bevington) can destroy a team, talent or not. See: 1996 White Sox. OF COURSE you've got to have talent but talent alone often isn't enough. I have a feeling you know that as well as I do. Again you have your thoughts on this and I have mine. We'll have to agree to disagree as we usually do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2017 -> 02:13 PM) Lefty Tanner set the record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager. He finished last three years in a row 84-86, don't think that is a record. Torborg was the right man for the right team at the right time in my opinion and it showed on the field. The Sox had the talent but it always takes a steady hand to move it in the right direction. Torborg took a team that was garbage in the first half of 89 and "suddenly" they had a winning record in the second half of that year. I guess that was all the players doing. (LOL) LaRussa was another guy who got it what with the team road parties where guys would talk baseball. I think you are absolutely devaluing the impact a manager can have on a team both on the field and off it...but you are entitled to your opinion. Baseball is not as "self-regulating" as you think especially with the amount of money some of these guys are making.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 8, 2017 -> 04:12 PM) I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers. That is a terrific point. The best managers are really amateur psychiatrists. They have an ability to figure out what drives guys, what gets on their minds...things like that. Chuck Tanner was very good at this aspect and so was Jeff Torborg. In fact Jeff called me this morning and as we talked he told me a story about Lance Johnson. The Sox sent Lance back down in the spring of 1989 and Jeff said he was so upset he started crying. Jeff said he told him, 'let's go into my office...' Jeff said he knew immediately what was really bothering Johnson so he gave him his phone number and told him to call anytime something was bothering him or if he just wanted to talk. Jeff told me he knew that Johnson was worried that if he was sent back down to the minors nobody would care anymore and the organization would just forget about him. History shows the type of player Lance was and you never know how this small gesture by Torborg played a part in that as it helped him mentally. Another story Jeff told me a few years ago was right before the All Star Break in 89. Sox were in K.C. had a day off before opening up a series with the Royals. Jeff asked the team to have a short workout on the off day just to go over fundamentals and that if they did it he wouldn't ask for a workout the day before the season resumed so they could be with their families a little longer. So he gets to his office at Kauffman Stadium and sees a bunch of guys on the field working out, he went to his office to start working on lineup's for the series and after about an hour he went back out to the field expecting to see the guys all gone. Instead he found them actually playing a game like we used to do when we were kids (just lobbing pitches in to hitters). He was amazed but thought, 'OK let's see what we can do with this.' So he told me he called and ordered pizza's and some beer and had them in the clubhouse when the team got back inside. They ate and talked. When they came back after the break they won 11 of 12, had a winning record in the second half and had a fantastic 1990 season. Little things sometimes add up to really big things. You just wonder what could have been had Ron Schueler not insisted that he had to hire his own manager and forced Jeff out.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:57 PM) Answer this question. Are you happy Moncada is joining the White Sox? Yes or no. My answer: Yes (1-0 yes). Maybe. Not trying to evade the question. I don't know. There is no need to rush the kid as I stated earlier and for God's sake they better not be thinking of having him play 3rd base to replace Frazier. More any of the other short term infield stiffs there but leave this kid at 2nd base...he's got enough things to have to worry about. A new position doesn't need to be one of them (and yes I know he played a little there with the Red Sox last year. It affected him offensively.)

For Hahn to get all this potential talent is nine months is amazing. Kudos to him. No guarantees but no one can say that he isn't going full bore with this and demanding quality in return.

Wish he would have stayed down until September at the earliest but what's done is done. At least the kid won't have the pressure of a pennant race on his shoulders.

He gone?????

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:44 PM) If he pitches 75 innings this year and 100 innings next year then I'm not trading jack for him. Never said anything about limiting him next year. Assuming he's healthy it's a full go.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) His inning have already been limited by being on the shelf for 3 months. Given the mystery surrounding his injury, I'd think the Sox want to be very careful with him for the rest of this season if for no other reason then to protect his future trade value (given who his agent is and that he'll be taking him to free agency...)

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 04:12 PM) So....you want them to lose...with dignity or something? This is EXACTLY what this is supposed to look like. 2014, 2015, 2016...when they were actually trying to win but couldn't muster a .500 record, was much more embarrassing to me. To clarify: I'd like them to lose; with the youngsters, the ones who may still be around in two years showing some progression, some ability to grasp and execute the fundamentals. I'd like the vets to act like major league players and to play well enough that another team may be interested in them in trade.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) Jose Quintana will no longer be the underrated pitcher he was with the Sox. I wish it was with a different team, but I am very glad that the man will finally get the credit and recognition that he deserves, let alone run support. Couldn't happen to a better guy. Agree. Hope he wins every game he pitches (and the Cubs lose every other one...)

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 03:57 PM) Does anybody else find it strange that Rodon is the fifth starter out of the break? I know he's coming back from injury. But if he's ready to go why would you make him your fifth starter after the break? I believe know he pitched on the weekend of the Colorado series (Sunday, I believe), but why make him sit 10 days between starts and send chum like Shields, Pelfrey and Holland out there first? Time for Rodon to step forward and not be babied. Limit his innings and tank for a top three draft pick next year.

I know they are going to lose games...a lot of games...a ton of games but this really is becoming an embarrassment. Starting pitching is horrific, the defense is brutal (three more errors today) and you blow a five run lead to a mediocre (at best) team. At home. Just sad. Like I said I know they are going to lose but these guys are supposed to be professionals who are getting paid very, very well. At least they should act like they give a damn (even if they have to fake it.) RR is supposed to be good with young players and to be able to teach the fundamentals. On that score, so far, I'm not impressed.

Typical the way this year has been going health-wise. It is what it is I guess.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 01:18 PM) Scar tissue built up around the nerve after TJ surgery. It needed to be cleaned up. I think gloom and doom on Nate is premature Until he can actually make it through a season healthy, I think it is premature to count on him for anything in my opinion.

Look at all the Sox relief pitchers hurt the past few years...Jones, Putnam, Petricka...even Zach Duke. Think back to how Ventura managed the pen sometimes using three or four guys to get through one inning because he was so wedded to the "lefty has to face lefty" philosophy. All those appearances added up it seems...not just throwing in the game but warming up to get into the game. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

I still feel 2020 is the target date.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:31 AM) What is Carlos Rodon's future with the White Sox? How long is he under contract for - when does he become a free agent? Scott Boras is his agent (to my recollection). If accurate, there is a very good chance that he want to test the free agent market and the Sox will be left holding the bag. If the White Sox are 2 years away (maybe even 3) from realistically competing in the majors, even with all of the young talent they are compiling, is Rodon a potential trading chip they could use now (or in the off-season) to add another 2 top prospects? He hasn't been a dominating pitcher, but the upside is there, and a team would get him under contract, etc. for the next few years. Will his name come up in rumors over the next few weeks or Winter or do you expect the White Sox to use Rodon as a potential top of the rotation starter for the next White Sox team that is competitive? I think the Sox still have him for another three years. Boras is still his agent. Given his history Boras is going to take Rodon to free agency and he'll probably be asking for more than the Sox can or will want to pay him (unless new ownership is in place by then...) Sox probably won't be contending until 2020 so my guess is he gets traded with a year or a year and a half before he can go free agency.

Guy can't stay healthy. The contract clause is interesting though and well done by Hahn.

Will miss Q. Class guy and an excellent pitcher...wish him all the best. On paper it sounds like the Sox got some top people, can't complain. This should also put to rest though thinking the "rebuild" was just an excuse to get rid of Sale and Eaton only.

First game I ever attended saw Gary Peters throw a complete game, 1-hitter against Baltimore. July 15, 1963: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1963/B07150CHA1963.htm Pretty hard to top that! This is a good question. Off the top of my head without looking things up I've seen Peters, Bradley, Wood, Bahnsen, Lemonds, Stone, Barrios, Kravec, Perez, Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras.

Doesn't look good: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/241...ooked-at-again/

I hope it's "minor" too (of course the Sox have made that claim a number of times this year to the guys on the big league roster....that hasn't turned out to be very accurate has it?)

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 01:57 PM) Three times we came close to losing the team, one of these years it's going to happen. Very, VERY seriously doubt it. Eventually new ownership will take over...that changes everything in my opinion.