Lip Man 1

QUOTE (CregerMax @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) I love this site, I have read it for years. I really like the Sox fan perspective on the team. Unfortunately this thread is one of the reasons I didn't create an official login. Somebody tries to say something positive about anything and it goes negative right away, Guaranteed Rate has naming rights, so what! There CEO is rich and happens to be a Sox fan, good for him. I don't care if it was Summers Eve Park as long as it smelled great watching the Sox kick ass year after year. Love you all, Cregermax I was under the impression from reading the papers and seeing photos that he and his people are big, VERY BIG Cub fans. Mark

Sox have now blown and lost 11 games where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later. Jones now has nine blown saves, three losses and has had a direct hand in six of those 11 blown games. He needs to be moved out of the late inning role next year perhaps to the 6th or 7th inning if the Sox revamp their bullpen. Meanwhile its just another divisional loss, one of many this year and many more to come in the final month. Mark

QUOTE (credezcrew24 @ Aug 29, 2016 -> 01:55 PM) The White Sox wouldn't be able to dump Avi's salary on any team in exchange for nothing. He literally has negative value. He's going to be non-tendered in the offseason. An inclusion of Avi in any trade means the Sox have to add more to the deal. I still would be surprised if Garcia was non-tendered, flat out doing that, letting him go reflects badly on the front office since he was the "centerpiece" of their first major deal under Hahn. I think he needs to go, absolutely...but the Sox won't just release him / give him away. Mark

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Potential 2017 bullpen: Putnam, Petricka, Jones, Jennings, Burdi, Robertson, Ynoa? This is a solid pen when healthy, there are a lot of ifs, such as can Burdi succeed in the majors, health, Robertson putting it back together. I'd rather have Ynoa than Albers. Need to see if a few of those guys can be upgraded...all depends on who is out there and if the Sox are "going for it" again in 2017. Mark

Nice to see them playing well lately and that Rodon seems to have turned it around. Hell maybe they can still finish over .500 for the year? Mark

QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 02:50 PM) My guess is they're going for it in 2017. Guess I can't really blame them for that, since they could likely trade their assets for equal returns at the 2017 deadline / 2017-2018 offseason. It's just awful we're in August wishing it was December or April already. Horrid time to be a sox fan. You just hope none of those "assets" get hurt during the first part of next season before they have a chance to trade them...or their value goes up in smoke. Mark

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) Comments from KW earlier in the week indicated that the problems in 2016 were 'spearheaded" by bullpen injuries…. I take that to mean they are of the opinion that the catalyst for the horrific tumble after the 23-10 was the two guys in the pen that went down… That certainly addresses the issue of how the Sox got to lead the league in Blown Saves, and possibly how a closer ends up being one of the league leader in blown saves, but those stretches of non-existent offense, account equally for why the team is in the state it's in….IMHO Well going into tonight the Sox have scored three runs or less in 46% of their games this season. Mark

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Nate Jones is fine as the Sox set up man leading to the closer, whoever that may be. We will see and have already been seeing possible bullpen arms for next year Hopefully you don't mean stiffs like Purke, Turner, Albers, Ynoa and their ilk because I don't want them to be within 500 miles of the Sox roster next season. Mark

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) Statistically, Jones Burdi and Jennings are the three best relievers (assuming Robertson's gone). I'm sure SoxTalkers are champing at the bit for Nate Jones to be made closer. How many blown saves does he have? You seem to have left that somewhat important piece out. Well, it probably doesn't matter much because the White Sox have won almost all of his blown saves. Oops, that's Robertson. They've really been terrible in all the games Jones and Albers have blown. Might want to rethink that position. Next thing you'll be arguing that Jennings is the best left handed reliever in baseball despite all evidence to the contrary. For the record since stats were brought out, Jones has also blown eight saves and been at least partially responsible for five of the 10 losses the Sox have when they took a lead into the 7th inning or later. I think it would be a major mistake for the Sox to think he can close....he's had enough difficult stretches just as the 8th inning guy. If the Sox could get a deeper / better bullpen, I think he'd be fine as a 6th / 7th inning guy...occasionally use him in the 8th inning if you have a big enough lead. Just my opinion. Mark

Over Sale's last seven starts, he has a 1-4 record with a 2.56 ERA. Mark

19th time this year the Sox lost a game when allowing an opponent three runs or less. Sale has got to be talking to himself by now. He should have 19 wins. Mark

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) You're right about the chronic disbelief from the Sox fanbase that this organization is mostly a flash in the pan from year to year. Per your fact that the Sox are the only one of the old-time 16 teams to have never made the playoffs in consecutive years through all of these decades, who wouldn't be skeptical? It makes legitimate sense to wait longer before jumping on the bandwagon. Unfortunately, the Sox franchise doesn't have the longtime credibility or track record to warrant such unconditional faith. So if you look at it that way, perhaps what I said about winning isn't entirely correct. One season of winning here or there isn't enough, there must be some consistent winning over a period to seriously affect attendance in a positive way. Doc: I agree with your last statement completely. Excellent summary. At this point it is a long shot they can even post consecutive winning seasons anymore let alone dream about consecutive playoff appearances. Mark

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 11:06 PM) That's more come from behind wins than I thought. I wonder how many were early in the season when we were good. Four of those 12 come from behind wins came before the "Texas Two-Step" disaster on May 10th. Mark

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) It's short or slang for "what's up " as in Sup dude ? Then I'm glad I didn't know what it means. Mark

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 10:05 PM) Happy Birthday Lippermaniac . Listen to the Altered Image song or view it on youtube called Happy Birthday. Cali: Thanks for the kind wishes. With respect I prefer the Beatles "Birthday" Mark

I was curious so I looked it up. Sox are 31-24 on my birthday with 11 years when they didn't play. (Remember these were also some seasons where they played a DH on my birthday...) Mark

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) Then they should both be fired. Agreed, way past time for serious changes on the baseball side. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:48 PM) Derrick Rose said sup. I don't know what "sup" means. I've seen ISU athletes in basketball tear their meniscus. One player went down the championship season in the Big Sky at New Mexico State in mid-November. By the start of conference play in early January they were back in the starting lineup and played the rest of the season. Mark

Nice to see the Sox give me a present on my birthday! 12th game this year the Sox have won when trailing in the 7th inning or later. Mark

Doc: Maybe another way of putting it with what I posted earlier is this. (And I know this is a generalization). Most Sox fans don not believe this organization is capable of sustained success. They have lost confidence in them and they have lost credibility for a number of reasons. Some say that makes Sox fans bad, I say it makes them realistic and skeptical with good reason. Change those dynamics and I'm sure things will be fine...continue on the path they are on now and it's going to get worse. Just my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 04:41 PM) Not saying this to be offensive, but isn't this old news? Hahn just said that today before the game meeting the media. Said they are "likely" done for the year. Among the things he said was that there is no rift between him, Jerry or Kenny and that they all want to move the franchise forward "to get us on an extended period of success even if that involves a short term step-back." He said that Navarez "put himself on the map for the next several years of playing some sort of role on this club going forward. He has opened some eyes." He also said Davidson and Jackson are "likely" out for the season. Just being around athletes myself at Idaho State my sense is Jackson must have done something more then just tear a meniscus. Normally if it's just that you don't miss three and a half months. Mark

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 04:36 PM) You highlight a good point. Winning has some correlation to Sox fan attendance (as seen in 2006), but not always. I remember the attendance being surprisingly weak for a good portion of the historic 2005 season when they well ahead of the pack in first place from the get go. And it wasn't particularly strong in 2012 when they were battling with Detroit for the division title in September. The fans inexplicably didn't turn out as much as could have been expected down the stretch when the team needed the support. I admit it that as a Sox fan, I'm guilty of not showing up at the park for long stretches without realizing it. I guess I just love watching it on HD TV at home or at a neighborhood bar better than going down to the stadium. Doc: As I posted in a series of stories called Sox and the Media, the problem is the Sox haven't consistently won making fans willing to take a chance and spend time and money on them. You talk about 2005 where they finished with good attendance but what happened in 2002, 2003, 2004? 2002 a .500 seasom, 2003 they urinated away a playoff spot in the final three weeks...2004, lost Frank and Mags, fell out of first place at the All Star Break (not the team's fault it happens.) My point is there was no reason for fans to expect or believe anything different was going to happen in 2005. When it looked like the Sox were for real things picked up in the second half of the season. 2012 you say? Well 2009 was a disaster, 2010 they fell out of firs place in August when the bullpen fell apart and got injured, 2011 was a losing season. Again no track record for fans to say, "this year will be different." And that historically has been a problem. The Sox after all are the only one of the original pre expansion 16 MLB franchises to have NEVER made the post season in consecutive years. Ever. They won in 2005 and 2006, attendance was 2.3 and 2.9 million. Had they been able to keep it going instead of falling apart in 2007 and 2009 this wouldn't be as bad of a situation in my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) You obviously take offense to anything resembling discussion about the fan base. I understand that, as I see people bothered by it all of the time. What it does not change is the truth. The White Sox would not be signing a third rate ballpark naming rights deal if the Sox fan base was more loyal. I know it hurts your feelings, but it is the honest to god truth. What I have never done is make a judgement of what the fans should or should not do. All of that is the manifestation of someone who is working harder than most at being offended. Loyalty is a two way street of course and as we discussed my opinion is that sports fans are under no obligation to support a bad product. No different from any other type of business and sports today is now a billion dollar business. You disagree with that and have made that clear consistently. Again I disagree with you but I respect your consistency. If the Sox want an average of say 2.5 million fans a year...fine, win 90 games three seasons in a row and they'll get that. Not have a winning season at least in six out of nine years...well that's a tough sell for anybody. Mark

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) I just have no clue why you keep defending the way this franchise is run. Maybe he has a relative working for them? Just kidding...(I think!) I do think I'd like to arrange a legit interview with him for the site. Seriously. I disagree with his views but he has been consistent and I'd like to explore the reasoning behind his beliefs. I think it would make for a good one and interesting to a lot of people. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) Just because they aren't doing it the way YOU want it done is irrelevant. They have made a ton of moves the last few years, again, they just haven't worked out. They know there is a problem, and are trying to fix it. It just isn't the way that most people want to see. But they are trying. I honestly appreciate the effort (I'm not being sarcastic) as I've said I've never doubted for a minute the desire to win from JR on down. Baseball though is a results business...the results have been bad for six of the last nine years, soon to be seven out of ten. Radical changes are needed starting with the removal of people on the baseball side of the front office who simply aren't very good at their jobs based on the bottom line...wins and losses. Mark