Lip Man 1

Bruce Levine is reporting tonight that the Sox do not believe in opt-out clauses and did not offer one to Machdo.

Can't blame you at all man for feeling the way you do. It's clear ownership simply refuses to understand the way the negotiating game is played today given the reported limitations. What top free agent in their right minds would take that offer? Nothing changes with this organization until ownership changes. If that wasn't clear in the past, it is today.

Merkin reported he won't start baseball activities for 12 weeks for whatever that's worth.

That's a pretty poor list.

Saw this recently and to me it's a terrific summary of the entire situation since numbers and quotes are now out and it seems the Sox never were really in the mix: * Sox have never shelled out more than 68 million on a player, one of only four MLB teams to have never given out a nine figure deal. * Sox FO told fans for months, "the money will be there." Things are different now... * Most Sox fans believed the hype and felt times were changing * Sox fail to land Machado because of a low-ball offer. * Sox FO makes excuses (i.e. Kenny Williams) The end result? Most Sox fans will NEVER trust or believe anything this front office ever says again.

Very disappointed and very angry. However I want to see more information (and it will leak out) before coming to any final conclusions. What was the Sox offer? What was San Diego's offer? Did the Sox get a chance to match it or improve on it? Things along those lines. If however the answers don't reflect the Sox organization in a good light than in my opinion, any and all attacks upon ownership and the front office are totally justified.

Remember these guys and their agents have tremendous ego's. They want the most money, they want that historic record breaking deal, they want a lot of things. Neither is going to want to give up that "dream" for wont of a better word, quickly or easily.

Well...since you brought it up: May 15, 1951 – It was a testament to the managerial genius of Sox skipper Paul Richards. It had been 30 years since the league saw a move like this. In the ninth inning of a game in Boston where the White Sox were winning 7-6, relief pitcher Harry Dorish was removed in favor of Billy Pierce to face the left handed hitting Ted Williams, only Dorish wasn’t removed from the game! He was moved to third base. Pierce retired Williams on a pop up, then was taken out of the game and Dorish put back on the mound. Boston eventually tied the game but the White Sox would have the last laugh, winning 9-7 in 11 innings. The victory marked the start of a 14 game win streak, with 11 of the wins on the road. On May 30 after sweeping the St. Louis Browns, the Sox record stood at 26-9.

It will be fixed...after the next labor impasse / lockout / strike in 2021. The two sides will figure out a way to make signing free agents attractive again to teams.

Yet the Marlins somehow have two World series titles under their belt. Baseball really is a funny game.

Frank Robinson - It has recently come out that the Sox were in the hunt for Frank Robinson before the start of the 1966 season as well. When the Reds gave notice they were willing to deal Robinson, whom they considered a ‘malcontent,’ Sox G.M. Ed Short immediately contacted Reds G.M. Bill DeWitt with an offer. The report said that when all was said and done, the White Sox offer was better then Baltimore’s, yet DeWitt sent Robby to the Orioles. In return Cincinnati got pitchers Milt Pappas and Jack Baldschun and outfielder Dick Simpson, one of the worst deals in baseball history. The Sox offered outfielder Floyd Robinson, pitcher Johnny Buzhardt and a third player, possibly All-Star relief pitcher Eddie Fisher (the Sox had the deepest bullpen in the league at the time) With those players Cincinnati won 76 games in 1966. With Robinson winning the Triple Crown, the Orioles swept the Dodgers in the World Series and their dynasty began.

This is interesting: https://www.mlb.com/news/2018-2019-mlb-free-agents-and-trade-rumors/c-297641124?tid=282421090 Story says Manny "turned down" the Sox offer of 175 million "recently." First time I've heard of this one.

Robby had a great quote about how he competed against Hank Aaron (a man he respected and visa versa) "If Hank hit one (home run), I wanted to hit one. If he hit two, I wanted to hit two. If he hit three? I stayed at two!" (LOL)

WBAL in Baltimore is reporting that Hall of Famer Frank Robinson is dead at the age of 83 from bone cancer. Fabulous player who never took any ****. MVP, many times an All-Star, won the Triple Crown in 1966. First African-American manager in MLB. Also he was a guy the Sox tried to get in the 60's, the offer they made to Cincinnati was better than the one they eventually took from Baltimore. Another one of those "might have been" that changed the course of the franchise. RIP to truly a great, great player.

Like most of the ideas save for the lowering of the mound.

Possible changes being discussed by MLB and MLBPA: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/three-batter-requirement-for-all-pitchers-universal-dh-single-trade-deadline-among-mlb-rule-changes-proposed-for-2019/ Do like some of the potential suggestions.

Don't want to sidetrack the thread but I thought you should know that Joe Cowley saying the Bulls and Lakers were talking about a Jabari for Caldwell-Pope trade, but KCP has a no trade clause and doesn’t want to come to the Bulls.

If baseball dies it won't be because of tanking although that would play a part in it. It'll die because of the "three outcome" approach in my opinion. The games are becoming boring, TV ratings are dramatically down in some places, attendance is down. The game needs to go back to fundamentals, putting the ball in play, action on the bases and so forth. Regarding the "time element" One of the beauties of the game is that there isn't a clock. I don't care if a game takes four hours if it is well played. And I continue to wonder why some folks b**** if a baseball game takes three hours but are perfectly fine when an NFL games goes 3:15 or 3:30 with even less action.

Jan. 29: Many Yankees fans have spent the offseason dreaming of Manny Machado in pinstripes, and there were rumors early on that the Bronx was Machado's preferred destination, too. But that possibility remains as remote as ever, as sources tell the New York Daily News' Wallace Matthews that the Yankees still have not extended a formal offer to Machado or his agent, Dan Lozano. One source familiar with the Yankees' thinking told Matthews that New York has simply "talked in concepts" with Machado's camp, and those concepts have not topped the White Sox's offer, which is thought to be somewhere between $175 and $250 million.

Personally I hope the Sox sign someone who may actually know what they are doing on the mound (as Hahn has suggested many times about needing another starter) then trying either of the guys mentioned in this thread.

Because they are tired of losing? Short term, I grant you, but maybe they think they can resign these guys?

You won't get an argument from me on that score, but it's not going to happen.

Always enjoyed Bill's work and wish him well.

Can't say that I am. Hawk is around 75 I think, it simply was time to let it go.

Instead of "whale" you can always use the "bag the elephant" reference from Wall Street.