steveno89

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 06:11 PM) I feel pretty good about all of the trades mentioned. Honestly perspective wise, we have been looking at the top prospects in the game for like 6 months now, to the point that any top 200 prospect looks like garbage. But then you think about how much you like players like Jordan Stephens or Alex Call, and those are "just guys" to us on other teams. But we are talking about likely 11 top 30 team prospects to our team for 3 guys, drafts, and fincancial flexibility. I'm pretty confident we're gonna end up well unless Quintana gets injured before we trade him. I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure most Sox fans are realistic about who is valuable in tiers. Guys like stephens and call exist in pretty much every organisations top thirty. They are back end of a trade filler or guys that can be dealt in smaller deals. There is a big value drop after meadows in the pirates system. Glasnow is not without big questions about his poor control. Bell is a terrible defensive player, even at first Newman has zero power, value tied to sticking at ss Keller pitched well against A ball competition. Forearm issues in the past.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:56 PM) I don't think there is any chance the Pirates give up 3 out of their top 5 prospects for Q. They may get 2 of those and other pieces. People were shocked when we got both Giolito and Lopez for Eaton. Sox fans were convinced Washington would only deal one of them, not both

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:50 PM) Agreed. People can spin it all they want. Try to boost Q's value in their minds. There is no way Q is as valuable as Sale. Perhaps not more valuable, but to mid market ball clubs like Pittsburgh? His 4th season of cheap control is huge My point was that Quintana absolutely should get a return very comparable to what Sale brought us Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + a flyer fit the Sale deal: Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz mold

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:38 PM) You're concerned about the Sox ability to develop a hitter like Rutherford but trust in them to develop the likes of Newman, Craig, Tucker, Hayes, etc? If anything, a talent like Rutherford would be easier for the Sox to develop than the Pirates hitters mentioned. Meadows/Glasnow/Bell isn't happening and your second proposal headlined by Newman is worse than what the Yanks have to offer. I wouldn't say Mateo's stock dropped considering he was just 20/21 years of age during his first full season at high A ball. That's still a bit young and he probably hit well enough to begin at AA this year. He's got the arm, glove and blazing speed, none of which Newman can offer. Andujar was very young (21) in his first jump to AA last season so I think he's still below the radar as a propsect but looks to have a cannon for 3B, nice k/BB rates and there's still power projected in his bat. Fowler I think is even more under-rated as he was 21 years old at AA and put up some impressive numbers. Going by Fowler's scouting reports and last year's stats, dude reminds me alot of a young Brett Gardner. Not as good as Gardner at walks but has a stronger arm. My second proposal was Meadows + Glasnow + Newman + one of the listed players to round out the package Fowler, to me, looks like his ceiling will be a 4th outfielder at the mlb level, possibly a below average regular? He is solid defensively, but I am not sold on the bat or power at all

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. Quintana's 4th season of cheap control makes him worth just as much, if not more, than Sale Glasnow is out of the top 10 in my book due to unsolved control issues, Meadows moves into fringe top 5 Newman's value is tied to him sticking at SS, he is considerably less valuable at 2B Bell is a butcher defensively, unplayable in the OF and awful at 1B. Bat only player who has not shown tons of power as of yet. I don't think Meadows + Glasnow + Bell is as crazy as it sounds

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. I don't consider Bell to be a top 20 prospect due to well below average defense at both OF and 1B He should be an average mlb regular, but he actually ended up with a -0.5 WAR during his 45 big league game debut. He does not really have a position and is essentially a bat only player. The Pirates stuck him at 1B because they don't have anyone else to put there. I like Bell as a third piece, but he is not a true top 20 prospect. I'd rank him more around the #50-70 range

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:52 PM) That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for? I don't know what they are waiting for at this point Quintana's pricetag is not going to drop, and they can replace the players they lose in the next 3 seasons Take Bell out of the deal, fine Put Meadows + Sox choice of Glasnow or Keller as a centerpiece + Newman + one more player and get a deal done That would not impact the current Pirates roster at all, and land them 4 cheap seasons of Quintana in his prime If I am the Pirates I strongly consider making that move.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) I agree with the Yankees but I think it's more Hahn than the Yanks. IMHO, even if the Yanks take Frazier, Judge and Torres off the table they still Mateo, Rutherford, Andujar and Fowler as hitters to offer in a trade. Heck, I would take those four in a deal for Q. I agree with the saying that a team can never have enough pitching but in this case I would prefer to see the Sox focus on getting hitters if possible. The Eaton trade kinda threw off the balance a bit by getting three pitchers in return for one hitter. I would be fine if the Q trade didn't involve any pitching at all. The Sox took Collins ecause he's a catcher with power and OBP potential. As for Lewsi' injury, no biggie since he's a few years away and the Sox are rebuilding so they have plenty of time for a kid like Lewis. If the Pirates traded Bell, Glasnow, Meadows for Q, it would not only shock the baseball world but also bring about the apocalypse. I would reject the Mateo/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler offer you proposed Mateo's stock has slipped after a relatively disappointing 2016. He is not good enough to headline a Q deal by a longshot. Rutherford is a quality third piece, but he is at least 3 full seasons away from the majors...lots of risk in the Sox system not known for developing hitters There is a big drop off in talent down to Andujar and Fowler Give me Meadows + Glasnow + Bell and The Pirates can have Quintana. If Bell is a dealbreaker then Newman + Sox pick of Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig/Hearn/Holmes/Garcia/Etc

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q. Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit. For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF. There's a huge drop off between the caliber of a Meadows + Glasnow + Bell package to a Meadows + Keller + Hayes + ? Despite not having any power, Newman is a better prospect than Hayes by a considerable amount at this point. Keller has had some injury issues and really is only coming off one good season this year. To be motivated enough to move Quintana we need to be getting three premium players back. I do not consider Hayes to be elite. Keller or Glasnow, depending on who Sox scouts like would have to be in the deal If the Pirates cannot stomach dealing Bell, then Newman + Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig would have to be included

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match. Sox are asking for Torres + Frazier + Mateo/Judge/Kaprellian/Sheffield/Rutherford and the Yankees are balking at that price

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Watch Seattle jump into the Q sweepstakes with an offer of Smith/Vogelbach/O'Neill/Lewis. Would be nice if Houston had a division rival involved in the negotiations. I'd pass on that offer We need to get at least one quality pitching prospect in return for Q If the Sox were that high on Lewis they would have taken him over Collins, plus he is now coming off injury I'd still waiting for the Meadows/Glasnow/Bell deal

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Alex Jackson and Austin Riley are also worth some attention as position players. Travis Demeritte has also put up some big time power numbers at low levels. Alex Jackson is rapidly approaching "bust" territory. Too soon to write him off, but far more was expected out of such a high draft pick. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=392 This eyewitness scouting report from 08/2016 really brings his stock down quite a bit. His below average glove and well below average speed force his bat to play. 45 Future grade

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) Here's Dave Cameron's take: Dooduh: Let’s try this again…. why would Glasnow + Bell + 3rd prospect not be enough for the ChiSox to pull the trigger for Quintana? That is a strong package and there’s little reason to believe they are getting any more than that… and holding him accepts risk of poor performance impairing his value. They are not going to get Meadows by holding out any longer. This has to be just a matter of time, no..? 12:42 Dave Cameron: I think Pirates fans are a lot higher on Glasnow than non-Pirates fans. The command is terrible and the stuff isn’t that special. He’s not good enough to be the primary piece in a Quintana trade. Ding ding ding Many scouts view Glasnow's stock to have slipped a little bit. He can still develop into a TOR starter, but his control is currently not very good. He likely needs a full season in AAA to work on it. Hahn has done a great job in getting more than Sox fans hoped for in each trade Quintana is not wearing a Pirates uniform without Meadows + Glasnow + Bell/Keller/Newman package

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) I was thinking this too. It would make sense. I don't see Atlanta being a great fit for Quintana Albies is a very good prospect, but outside of that their system is pretty thin on "available" position player prospects. Maitan is 16 years old and very far away from the majors Acuna just turned 19 and is year away The system really drops off after that

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 01:50 PM) For sure have read a ton of write ups on most of the names from the various teams reported to have interest in Q but this fan-graphs was the first one I have seen say that about Glasnow. Again I would love Glasnow and apart of a package but the headliner needs to be Bell or the now designated untouchable HOF Meadows, plus Glasnow and a guy like Newman and/or Diaz. I understand Pirate fans are attached to their top prospects, as they should be, as should Astro and Yankee fans. But the fact remains is Hahn has a plan, and certain targets. He has already stated he is in no rush, and deals will be made when they feel they are getting max value. Someone mentioned yesterday how Boston and Hahn has be talking back and forth for over a year about Sale. Right now we have a stand off and no one is budging. It will take someone to come off their ask or someone to up the ante or this thing is going to drag out until someone is desperate. And again good for Hahn for sticking to a plan and his perceived value for his players. Sox will sit back and wait unless they get exactly what they want I'm sure the White Sox started the conversation with: Meadows + Glasnow + Bell for Quintana The Pirates are trying to work a Glasnow + Newman ++ angle and I don't think it is even close to working Sox know they are in the driver's seat, Quintana's cheap contract is a big rarity on the market. Teams like the Astros and Pirates are very unlikely to be able to shell out for a massive SP free agent contract in coming offseasons. Pirates need to think about whether they want to go for it or stand pat and miss the playoffs. I don't think the Astros have enough to offer if they are not willing to include Bregman or Musgrove off of their mlb roster. Martes and Tucker are solid pieces, but I don't see either as being a can't miss prospect.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Ronald Acuna, Sean Newcomb, Austin Riley and Cristian Pache. The pitcher can be messed around with too, Foltynewicz, Toussaint or Wentz could be subbed in for Newcomb and I wouldn't raise much of a fuss. I'd include Frazier to facilitate that deal, possibly trying to add a Victor Diaz-like flier on in the process. That's a lot for Atlanta to give up but they keep Allard, they keep Albies and they keep Maitan. Meanwhie the Sox invest in three guys that all could realistically be amongst the top 25 overall prospects next year. No sure bets, but more talent than anything the Pirates could offer. I would be furious if the White Soc accepted that offer

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them. I feel fans are too hung up on Meadows. Of course we all would like him to be in a deal, but it can get done without him. We have needs all over the place, and our minor leagues badly need more depth at every position. Getting something along the lines of the Scout.com proposal of: Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana The above would really help provide greater depth to a system that is pretty weak outside of the top ten prospects. Glasnow and Keller would add two arms with good upside, Holmes becomes a nice depth/5th starter option in the event of injury or a long reliever, Newman and Craig both are high OBP guys who know how to draw walks that are not too far from being mlb ready. 1) Moncada 2) Glasnow 3) Giolito 4) Kopech 5) Lopez 6) Newman 7) Keller 8) Collins 9) Fulmer 10) Basabe 11) Hansen 12) Burdi 13) Craig 14) Dunning 15) Adams 16) Fisher 17) Call 18) Holmes 19) Stephens 20) Tilsen Whichever order you want to put it, that is a dramatically improved farm from the beginning of December. That might have 10-11 top 100 prospects, and #10-20 are significantly better than before with actual mlb upside.

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) Great and all Meadows on the cover.... but the best major leaguer in the deal is Q. He is easily a top 30 starter in baseball. What do the stats show again? This deal should be Meadows and two others in the 50-150 prospect range, unless Sox throw in another asset for Pitt. I get liking a prospect, but you don't get a TOR pitcher for nothing but hopes and dreams. Meadows is a very good prospect, but he has been somewhat injury prone. I'd prefer the scout.com proposal over meadows plus two

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:33 AM) We should be getting that deal without Petricka or Bastardo being in the deal. That lacks their best pitcher, and their second best position player prospects. If we are taking salary AND kicking in another guy? Meadows, Glasnow, Newman, Bell, and Keller, plus a lottery ticket or two. Meadows, glasnow, bell, newman and keller is insane to even suggest. Pirates aren't offering that much short of trout

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:10 AM) Take it instantly That would be a very solid offer for Quintana

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) FWIW, which is not much, I traded Q and Robertson for Meadows, Glasnow. Bell, and Hayes in OOTP. Meadows and Glasnow were busts. Bell and Hayes became studs, Bell moreso. Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today What do you guys think? Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:54 PM) Why aren't the Sox willing to take a bad contract from Pittsburgh to facilitate a deal? Like Antonio Bastardo for example. Salary relief might ultimately be a deciding factor for the Pirates on what they'd be willing to give up. Sox shouldn't have to take back a bad contract to trade Quintana

Just saw on mlbtraderumors that Micah Johnson has been designated for assignment Anyone think we should bring him back?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) Yes, a bit heavy from the Pitt side but as Quinarvy said, perhaps a sweetener from white Sox needed or remove Diaz. But idea was to allow Pitt to keep their untouchables in meadows and bell, while giving Nats enough to unload their untouchable in Robles. I only posted so that Rick Hahn's "feedback guy" might see it and consider it �� Turning Robles into glasnow and Robertson would be a great move for the nationals. Not sure why the pirates would do this deal unless more was coming their way