steveno89

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. Quintana's 4th season of cheap control makes him worth just as much, if not more, than Sale Glasnow is out of the top 10 in my book due to unsolved control issues, Meadows moves into fringe top 5 Newman's value is tied to him sticking at SS, he is considerably less valuable at 2B Bell is a butcher defensively, unplayable in the OF and awful at 1B. Bat only player who has not shown tons of power as of yet. I don't think Meadows + Glasnow + Bell is as crazy as it sounds

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 04:04 PM) That's a better return (based on prospect rankings) than Sale got. IF the Sox continue to demand Meadows or nothing, the deal probably ends up as Meadows, Keller, Hayes/Craig. That's a reasonable package for Q if Meadows is in the deal based on the Sale and Eaton returns. But for the love guys, the Sox aren't getting 3 top 20 prospects for Q. I don't consider Bell to be a top 20 prospect due to well below average defense at both OF and 1B He should be an average mlb regular, but he actually ended up with a -0.5 WAR during his 45 big league game debut. He does not really have a position and is essentially a bat only player. The Pirates stuck him at 1B because they don't have anyone else to put there. I like Bell as a third piece, but he is not a true top 20 prospect. I'd rank him more around the #50-70 range

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:52 PM) That makes sense. Pirates what are you waiting for? I don't know what they are waiting for at this point Quintana's pricetag is not going to drop, and they can replace the players they lose in the next 3 seasons Take Bell out of the deal, fine Put Meadows + Sox choice of Glasnow or Keller as a centerpiece + Newman + one more player and get a deal done That would not impact the current Pirates roster at all, and land them 4 cheap seasons of Quintana in his prime If I am the Pirates I strongly consider making that move.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) I agree with the Yankees but I think it's more Hahn than the Yanks. IMHO, even if the Yanks take Frazier, Judge and Torres off the table they still Mateo, Rutherford, Andujar and Fowler as hitters to offer in a trade. Heck, I would take those four in a deal for Q. I agree with the saying that a team can never have enough pitching but in this case I would prefer to see the Sox focus on getting hitters if possible. The Eaton trade kinda threw off the balance a bit by getting three pitchers in return for one hitter. I would be fine if the Q trade didn't involve any pitching at all. The Sox took Collins ecause he's a catcher with power and OBP potential. As for Lewsi' injury, no biggie since he's a few years away and the Sox are rebuilding so they have plenty of time for a kid like Lewis. If the Pirates traded Bell, Glasnow, Meadows for Q, it would not only shock the baseball world but also bring about the apocalypse. I would reject the Mateo/Rutherford/Andujar/Fowler offer you proposed Mateo's stock has slipped after a relatively disappointing 2016. He is not good enough to headline a Q deal by a longshot. Rutherford is a quality third piece, but he is at least 3 full seasons away from the majors...lots of risk in the Sox system not known for developing hitters There is a big drop off in talent down to Andujar and Fowler Give me Meadows + Glasnow + Bell and The Pirates can have Quintana. If Bell is a dealbreaker then Newman + Sox pick of Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig/Hearn/Holmes/Garcia/Etc

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) thank you, he is a fine 3rd or 4th piece in a deal but not one to headline for Q. Meadows has question marks about his health if the pirates are serious about Q he is going to be in the deal, same with Keller and one of Newman or Hayes; likely Hayes, Bell is likely the sticking point because they want his production the major league roster and if Hahn takes a package of Meadows/Keller/Hayes+ for Q he leaves the buccos with depth in Glasnow and Bell remains at the major league level for them, Keller and Hayes aren't in their immediate plans. Also if Q's contract is a burden on them take back Bastardo as i suggest in the last Q thread throw in a Putnam and upgrade the last piece of the deal a bit. For people posting about how prospects are the lifeblood of that organization, yeah no s*** but if you get Q it gives you at the very least a half season reboot on McCutchen's value if they fall out by the trade deadline and 3.5 years to deal Q to restock. Lastly Marte or Polanco can slot into CF which if they do so would lessen Meadows value to the pirates and opens them up to the FA market for a rebound candidate in the future, a 'tweener' or a platoon for LF. There's a huge drop off between the caliber of a Meadows + Glasnow + Bell package to a Meadows + Keller + Hayes + ? Despite not having any power, Newman is a better prospect than Hayes by a considerable amount at this point. Keller has had some injury issues and really is only coming off one good season this year. To be motivated enough to move Quintana we need to be getting three premium players back. I do not consider Hayes to be elite. Keller or Glasnow, depending on who Sox scouts like would have to be in the deal If the Pirates cannot stomach dealing Bell, then Newman + Diaz/Hayes/Tucker/Craig would have to be included

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match. Sox are asking for Torres + Frazier + Mateo/Judge/Kaprellian/Sheffield/Rutherford and the Yankees are balking at that price

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:45 PM) Watch Seattle jump into the Q sweepstakes with an offer of Smith/Vogelbach/O'Neill/Lewis. Would be nice if Houston had a division rival involved in the negotiations. I'd pass on that offer We need to get at least one quality pitching prospect in return for Q If the Sox were that high on Lewis they would have taken him over Collins, plus he is now coming off injury I'd still waiting for the Meadows/Glasnow/Bell deal

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Alex Jackson and Austin Riley are also worth some attention as position players. Travis Demeritte has also put up some big time power numbers at low levels. Alex Jackson is rapidly approaching "bust" territory. Too soon to write him off, but far more was expected out of such a high draft pick. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=392 This eyewitness scouting report from 08/2016 really brings his stock down quite a bit. His below average glove and well below average speed force his bat to play. 45 Future grade

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:04 PM) Here's Dave Cameron's take: Dooduh: Let’s try this again…. why would Glasnow + Bell + 3rd prospect not be enough for the ChiSox to pull the trigger for Quintana? That is a strong package and there’s little reason to believe they are getting any more than that… and holding him accepts risk of poor performance impairing his value. They are not going to get Meadows by holding out any longer. This has to be just a matter of time, no..? 12:42 Dave Cameron: I think Pirates fans are a lot higher on Glasnow than non-Pirates fans. The command is terrible and the stuff isn’t that special. He’s not good enough to be the primary piece in a Quintana trade. Ding ding ding Many scouts view Glasnow's stock to have slipped a little bit. He can still develop into a TOR starter, but his control is currently not very good. He likely needs a full season in AAA to work on it. Hahn has done a great job in getting more than Sox fans hoped for in each trade Quintana is not wearing a Pirates uniform without Meadows + Glasnow + Bell/Keller/Newman package

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) I was thinking this too. It would make sense. I don't see Atlanta being a great fit for Quintana Albies is a very good prospect, but outside of that their system is pretty thin on "available" position player prospects. Maitan is 16 years old and very far away from the majors Acuna just turned 19 and is year away The system really drops off after that

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 01:50 PM) For sure have read a ton of write ups on most of the names from the various teams reported to have interest in Q but this fan-graphs was the first one I have seen say that about Glasnow. Again I would love Glasnow and apart of a package but the headliner needs to be Bell or the now designated untouchable HOF Meadows, plus Glasnow and a guy like Newman and/or Diaz. I understand Pirate fans are attached to their top prospects, as they should be, as should Astro and Yankee fans. But the fact remains is Hahn has a plan, and certain targets. He has already stated he is in no rush, and deals will be made when they feel they are getting max value. Someone mentioned yesterday how Boston and Hahn has be talking back and forth for over a year about Sale. Right now we have a stand off and no one is budging. It will take someone to come off their ask or someone to up the ante or this thing is going to drag out until someone is desperate. And again good for Hahn for sticking to a plan and his perceived value for his players. Sox will sit back and wait unless they get exactly what they want I'm sure the White Sox started the conversation with: Meadows + Glasnow + Bell for Quintana The Pirates are trying to work a Glasnow + Newman ++ angle and I don't think it is even close to working Sox know they are in the driver's seat, Quintana's cheap contract is a big rarity on the market. Teams like the Astros and Pirates are very unlikely to be able to shell out for a massive SP free agent contract in coming offseasons. Pirates need to think about whether they want to go for it or stand pat and miss the playoffs. I don't think the Astros have enough to offer if they are not willing to include Bregman or Musgrove off of their mlb roster. Martes and Tucker are solid pieces, but I don't see either as being a can't miss prospect.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Ronald Acuna, Sean Newcomb, Austin Riley and Cristian Pache. The pitcher can be messed around with too, Foltynewicz, Toussaint or Wentz could be subbed in for Newcomb and I wouldn't raise much of a fuss. I'd include Frazier to facilitate that deal, possibly trying to add a Victor Diaz-like flier on in the process. That's a lot for Atlanta to give up but they keep Allard, they keep Albies and they keep Maitan. Meanwhie the Sox invest in three guys that all could realistically be amongst the top 25 overall prospects next year. No sure bets, but more talent than anything the Pirates could offer. I would be furious if the White Soc accepted that offer

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) and nobody knows if Meadows and Bell will even be special. It's ridiculous that Pittsburgh isn't even willing to trade one of them. I feel fans are too hung up on Meadows. Of course we all would like him to be in a deal, but it can get done without him. We have needs all over the place, and our minor leagues badly need more depth at every position. Getting something along the lines of the Scout.com proposal of: Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana The above would really help provide greater depth to a system that is pretty weak outside of the top ten prospects. Glasnow and Keller would add two arms with good upside, Holmes becomes a nice depth/5th starter option in the event of injury or a long reliever, Newman and Craig both are high OBP guys who know how to draw walks that are not too far from being mlb ready. 1) Moncada 2) Glasnow 3) Giolito 4) Kopech 5) Lopez 6) Newman 7) Keller 8) Collins 9) Fulmer 10) Basabe 11) Hansen 12) Burdi 13) Craig 14) Dunning 15) Adams 16) Fisher 17) Call 18) Holmes 19) Stephens 20) Tilsen Whichever order you want to put it, that is a dramatically improved farm from the beginning of December. That might have 10-11 top 100 prospects, and #10-20 are significantly better than before with actual mlb upside.

QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:53 AM) Great and all Meadows on the cover.... but the best major leaguer in the deal is Q. He is easily a top 30 starter in baseball. What do the stats show again? This deal should be Meadows and two others in the 50-150 prospect range, unless Sox throw in another asset for Pitt. I get liking a prospect, but you don't get a TOR pitcher for nothing but hopes and dreams. Meadows is a very good prospect, but he has been somewhat injury prone. I'd prefer the scout.com proposal over meadows plus two

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:33 AM) We should be getting that deal without Petricka or Bastardo being in the deal. That lacks their best pitcher, and their second best position player prospects. If we are taking salary AND kicking in another guy? Meadows, Glasnow, Newman, Bell, and Keller, plus a lottery ticket or two. Meadows, glasnow, bell, newman and keller is insane to even suggest. Pirates aren't offering that much short of trout

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 09:10 AM) Take it instantly That would be a very solid offer for Quintana

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 08:18 AM) FWIW, which is not much, I traded Q and Robertson for Meadows, Glasnow. Bell, and Hayes in OOTP. Meadows and Glasnow were busts. Bell and Hayes became studs, Bell moreso. Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today What do you guys think? Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:54 PM) Why aren't the Sox willing to take a bad contract from Pittsburgh to facilitate a deal? Like Antonio Bastardo for example. Salary relief might ultimately be a deciding factor for the Pirates on what they'd be willing to give up. Sox shouldn't have to take back a bad contract to trade Quintana

Just saw on mlbtraderumors that Micah Johnson has been designated for assignment Anyone think we should bring him back?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) Yes, a bit heavy from the Pitt side but as Quinarvy said, perhaps a sweetener from white Sox needed or remove Diaz. But idea was to allow Pitt to keep their untouchables in meadows and bell, while giving Nats enough to unload their untouchable in Robles. I only posted so that Rick Hahn's "feedback guy" might see it and consider it �� Turning Robles into glasnow and Robertson would be a great move for the nationals. Not sure why the pirates would do this deal unless more was coming their way

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) 3 team trade: White Sox trade Quintana to pirates and Robertson to Nats Pirates trade Keller, Newman, Hayes and Diaz to white Sox and glasnow to Nats Nats trade Robles to white Sox Pittsburgh would be parting with five prospects for Quintana, I don't see that happening

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:35 PM) I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him. You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects. And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary. So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw. The Sox have leverage. Keep calm. The Sale deal took a YEAR of trade talks to finally happen...and the Sox got what they wanted for the most part. If Moncada had crushed the ball during his brief callup he would not be in our farm system right now. If the Sox are going to burn their last blue chip trade piece, it had better be for premium, very high upside prospects.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 04:29 PM) I get the feeling if he is not traded by Soxfest we are going to camp with him. I am perfectly alright with that. It seems many don't believe in Quintana for whatever reason. I see him as a modern day Cliff Lee. He control the strike zone with great fastball location and has two good secondary pitches. I think if the Sox liked Frances Martes the deal would be done. Fact is many around the industry are not sold on him. If the Astros refuse to trade Bregman than you really don't have a front line piece Houston can give you. Sox are not stupid enough to take lesser prospects for Quintana They clearly are holding firm on the cream of the crop The Pittsburgh holdup is assuredly Meadows otherwise a trade would be done already. My guess is Pittsburgh keeps dancing around some combination of Glasnow or Keller plus Newman headlined deal. Sox are not warming up to that at all. Houston is clearly not going to deal Bregman, they likely consider their top offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino as "topped out". White Sox are not jumping at that. Like the Sale deal, they are waiting the market out for the true marquee headliner, unless they get an outstanding depth package along the lines of: Glasnow, Bell, Newman, Diaz or Martes/Tucker/Reed/Perez

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:55 PM) I'm saying that in response to the below message, not what I think the Sox are doing: QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) * Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline. That to me sounds like a panic, if you were to move forward and trade for him out of fear. The more I dig into it, the more I'm souring on Newman. While I'd love to have him as a utility player in our system, his ceiling is really as an average regular. Not taking anything away from what tools he offers, but I'd much rather trade for players with higher upside. His value is really tied with his ability to stick at shortstop, and I don't see him being able to beat out Anderson defensively. Anderson is a better athlete with more speed and arm strength. If Newman has to move to second base the lack of power becomes even more apparent. Tucker's ceiling is also that of an average mlb right fielder, and the power is purely projection at this point, not reality. The bat might play, but the power will be a necessity, not a luxury once he is forced to right field. The true "blue chip" prospects we are and should be targeting are guys like Glasnow, Torres, Meadows, Martes, Frazier who have considerable upside