steveno89

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 08:03 AM) Sure, if we move Quitana & Frazier we might have a shot at challenging the Padres, but it doesn't seem likely we'll move Todd before the season. I think you're underestimating how bad the Padres will actually be next year. I agree That Padres rotation is beyond awful. That team is going to get run train on by the MLB. I would go so far as to say our AAA rotation is significantly better than their mlb rotation.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:22 PM) Jose Quintana is 200 very solid, occasionally brilliant, left-handed innings. His WAR slightly overrates him, though he is obviously not an overrated player around the league. He is not Chris Sale. He is not a potential hall of famer nor generational talent. He is not particularly unique or rare, there are Jose Quintana's in the league every year going back forever. Maybe not a giant pile of them, but there have always been guys pitching as well as Jose Quintana has pitched for the White Sox. This isn't meant to disparage or belittle how good Q has been, its just an honest appraisal of him. He's still a fantastic pitcher who just turned 28 and figures to keep doing what he's been doing. Jose Quintana's are the locomotives that drive a team to a division championship. The contract is not as important as people make it out to be. Its nice, it definitely helps more than it hurts, but really its only a deal breaker to the real cheap franchises like Pittsburgh and you've seen how incredibly frustrating their cowardice to step up and make a move for fear of being wrong they can be. The teams willing to give up prospects for Quintana are giving up prospects for Quintana so he can help them win their divisions this year and next year*. If he comes cheaper that's great. *this also hampers his deadline value because teams are going to want the 120 IP he'll have accumulated by the team the deadline rolls around. You're big time selling Quintana short here He might not be as sexy as a Kershaw or sale, but he is one of the very best starters in the game. Coupled with a contract that is incredibly reasonable over the next four seasons, his value is massive. The sox are not forced to trade him. Don't give in to being impatient. Hahn has asked sox fans for their patience in a rebuilding process that will take years, not months. Hahn has scored two excellent trades so far this off-season that sox fans seem to be unanimously in favor of. Lets put our trust in him to do the same with Quintana, on the timeline that he feels is best for the organization.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) Add Stubbs and I think that deal is pretty tempting for both sides. Sox get good depth from four players that cover every level from A+ to the MLB. Theres alot of wicked talent in that rotation. If all goes well, by then Kopech should be in AAA and Hansen in AA. Bregman obviously is not going anywhere Reed is blocked and is unlikely to crack the 25 man roster. I could see Houston being open to moving him, although they do not like the idea of selling low on him Baseball America re ranks the Houston system like this for 2017 1) Martes 2) Tucker 3) Paulino 4) Perez 5) Reed 6) Whitley 7) Hernandez 8) Gurriel 9) Fisher 10) Stubbs I'd imagine Laureano is shortly following that

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:38 PM) I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer If that final piece is Franklin Perez? Deal

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) You completely missed the point in my post. Sorry if I didn't continue on. Hahn knows that a deal is out there, but he really wants to see what can happen by waiting Remember the Sale deal took a year of negotiation with Boston to finally happen. Discussions on Quintana were never very serious until Sale got dealt. It takes time to really gauge what the market is Sox can compromise, but the other side will have to compromise as well

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) I'm sure Hahn will come down to some extent. When it comes to selling something you always put it up for sale for more than you expect in return in anticipation of negotiating with a buyer(s). The fact that teams are still negotiating with Hahn despite knowing his very high price tells me something will eventually happen. Hahn is just patiently waiting to see which team makes the best offer that makes the most sense for the Sox. A deal not getting done yet does not mean the Sox need to compromise. The Pirates and Astros would absolutely love to have Quintana, but neither wants to overpay if they do not have to. Right now the Sox are porbably looking at: Pirates offer of Glasnow + Newman ++ or Astros offer of Martes + Tucker + Paulino Neither is worth moving Quintana in my opinion, both are light

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) Player 1: 2016 Salary: 2.5 MIL R 2B HR RBI AVE 84 | 27 | 41 | 94 | .222 Player 2: 2017 Salary: 12 MIL R 2B HR RBI AVE 89 | 21 | 40 | 98 | .225 If given the choice between the 2, employing player 1 seems like smart baseball for the rebuilding team, yes? (Player 1: Chris Carter, Player 2: Todd Frazier) True, but Carter can't play 3rd base with solid defense

QUOTE (Soha @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) It's hard to know if Hahn is over-asking for a return on Quintana when we don't know what the real offers each way were. It might be a case where the market is tapped out on teams with high prospects who are willing to move them, and you have to wait it out (until the trading deadline for example) for the market to refresh itself. I agree that I wouldn't want Frazier as a headliner, nor would I want Glasnow as a headliner. That said, if it means we just aren't going to get a Meadows or Torres as a headliner - that doesn't necessarily end discussions. Well maybe with Pittsburgh it would, but maybe not Houston or Atlanta? I think the last line in that article is well put. At a certain point, probably very soon, you need to poop or get off the pot. Leaving Quintana in lingo this long might have an adverse effect on him going forward. While the headliner is very important (and can be deal breaking), I am willing to look at a package as a whole if it makes sense Sox are looking for a 3 - 4 player deal of players all with high upside

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:02 PM) http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213682650/ri...-quintana-deal/ Nothing really new here, but between this article and Merkin's interview last night on WSCR, I gather that Hahn's demands have been ridiculously high and he now needs to determine what's really enough to move forward with a deal. Call it caving or whatever, but at some point you have to acknowledge that your current offers are likely close to market value and consider accepting one of them. That doesn't necessarily have to be now, but at some point the only thing that's going to get a team to budge (if they even will) is another team closing in on a deal like the Nationals with Sale. I do think with SoxFest 1 1/2 weeks away, we'll see some action very soon or else it indicates they plan on holding Q until the deadline. I'm not willing to accept Frazier as a headliner http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospect...hp?reportid=311 His hit tool is not great, and grades out as average at best. Lots of swing and miss, although good bat speed. He profiles as a corner outfielder, but I'm not seeing the big time ceiling for him. I expect him to slide out of the top 25 prospects in 2017. He still is a good prospect, but a second piece to a deal, not headliner for Quintana.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) It's not that. It's the whole persona that he's putting out there, as a AA pitcher. Kopech needs to mature a bit, he is a risky prospect, but one with big upside His control and secondary stuff need time, but I could see him pushing for a call up in late 2018 if he continues to develop

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) Lots of average-below average bats, relievers, and starters available that only cost money, and some GMs are very hesitant to give up their prospects. That's what the article says. What starting pitching free agents is this article referring to? Quintana is by far the best option on the market that actually could be traded. I don't think Gray or Archer will be moved. Astros leak on Gray interest is not fooling anybody, Oakland would be foolish to sell low on him

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 05:07 PM) Agree on all except for the Jays. As long as players like Torres, Meadows, Frazier, Bell, Swanson, Bregman etc are supposedly off the table then that makes it easier for the Jays to get into the mix. I do admit that the Jays are a team that will have to offer more players in a trade due to the lack of top 50 talent but if they were willing to offer the right players they could make a tempting offer. For me it would take something like Urena, Reid-Foley, McGuire, Tellez +. But that's based on those named players being off the table but if any of those teams put those players on the table then Toronto will have a difficult time staying competitive in negotiations unless the Sox are good with the idea of of receiving more players in a trade. Hopefully this wraps up soon and we can all move on to complaining about how it's taking so long to trade Frazier/Robertson and DFA Avi/Lawrie. I don't even think that package is enough for Quintana Blue Jays are not really a fit for what we are looking for. Sox won't deal Quintana without the return being outstanding, and understandably so. If our pricetag were that low the entire league would be in on Quintana Realistically Q is not being moved for less than a: Meadows or Bell + Glasnow + at least one or two more Martes + Tucker ++ Torres or Frazier +++ Albies +++

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 08:02 AM) Is Q Buehrle with some velocity? Currently Quintana has actually been a bit better than Buehrle from a statistical standpoint. Quintana has a long way to go to prove his longevity like Buehrle did though (14 staright 200+ inning seasons...finished with 198 in 2015 which would have been 15) Both have clear plus control, but Quintana has a bit better velocity which leads to a higher strikeout rate. Quintana is the type of pitcher that I could see going on to have an excellent rest of his career and pitch at a high level for years

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 05:46 PM) Rodon was a first round draft pick and is now a proven major league pitcher with potential. In fact, if Quintana is traded, Rodon might well be the Sox Ace. Rodon's potential is clear to professional scouts and GMs around the league. As such, he has plenty of trade value as a powerful, young, top of the rotation lefty starter. If Levine is right and there are several suitors for Quintana, and some teams are not willing to part with enough talent to get Q, there is no reason why they might not be interested in Rodon at a slightly lower cost in return talent. So, for the right return of prospects, including outfield or catcher prospects that can hit the ball, I would trade Rodon in a flash. No player is untradeable, at least no player that the Sox have on their roster, including Rodon. As some claim here, the market demand for starting pitchers is high and the supply is low. That argues in favor of trading pitchers instead of waiting. A boatload of prospect for Quintana and Rodon could seriously advance the rebuilding process. It could also help to develop young pitchers in our system that will get a chance to pitch in the major leagues like Fulmer. If those young pitcher struggle, that might increase the chance that the Sox tank in 2017 and get a high Draft pick in 2018. Any player is available for the right deal, but why deal Rodon when we have five seasons of control left with him? Plus his trade value would be much higher with a breakout season or two. Sox should keep him and build the rotation around him

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) Indians, Rangers, Dodgers, Blue Jays...if someone comes along who is willing to gut their farm entirely they could probably get Quintana. No way we deal Quintana within the division to the Indians. Nor would they be the highest bidder and drain their entire farm to a rival Dodgers have not shown willingness to part with top prospects Blue jays don't have the prospects in my opinion, compared to other suitors Rangers? They would have to part with MLB talent and don't want to

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 09:39 AM) I'll never forget there were even scouts (or was it a couple of scouting departments of different orgs?) who questioned why that kid was in high A after only 72 PA in low A. The 2012 draft is frustrating in retrospect because players like giolito, wacha, seager and stroganoff were all selected shortly after Hawkins

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:38 PM) I don't think so. Only because, if he continues to improve he will be worth more later. Unless you think his performance has reached it's peak. No team is offering up a big package for Rodon at this point. He's worth more to the sox for the next five seasons. Let him develop

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:12 PM) Agreed. For example, I think the "right deal" for Rodon is someone like Bregman+? Same upside of position player and a little extra tax for being dumb and not taking him themselves. Astros would be insane to offer Bregman plus for rodon I think Rodon can break out this year in a big way, and that he will be important for the white sox future the next five seasons. I'd much rather ride out his prime years than deal him for less now. Hahn and co are waiting on offers like: meadows + Glasnow or bell + one or two more Or martes + tucker + reed + Perez Or Torres + Rutherford ++ Despite recent sweetening, I still feel a deal is a ways off

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 03:01 PM) This. Trading Rodon now would be idiotic. Unless offered an overwhelming return (not happening), Rodon won't be going anywhere Hahn is wisely holding out until one club caves. If Quintana was being paid market value, the packages would likely be somewhat of a compromise. But with his cheap contract the return should be massive.

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:41 PM) I voted that Q will be traded to "some other team." I have zero evidence to believe that. It just seems like a lot of trades in the world pop up out of nowhere and lots of hot stove talk is often totally wrong. It's just BS for fan consumption to occupy them and the sports reporters while the real activity is unfolding. Perhaps, but the mystery team would have to have both 1) the farm to make the trade and 2) the willingness to part with a huge chunk of prospects to make a deal happen. The phillies, padres and brewers have the farms to make a deal happen, but certainly are not close enough to contention to warrant blowing up their minor leagues for q

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 02:50 PM) The best of the best Boras clients always go to FA......If you believe in Rodon,you believe he will be an ace, a bonafide #1. If that is the case, he's most definitely going to FA. That is why you trade him. Also, his control window is 1 year more than Quintana IIRC, so if it makes sense that the Sox' contention window does not include Quintana, then it does not include Rodon either. Quintana is signed through 2020, Rodon is under control through 2021 so the window really is not there. IMO Hahn should wait to trade him until he is an established TOR guy, then pounce similar to Sale. Rodon would not return nearly the same level of prospects as Quintana would. Sox will keep Rodon and look to build around him. He is still under team control for five more seasons.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 07:30 AM) Nonsense. After 5 years, he strikes out waaay too much. He is not nearly good enough, never really was. Interesting to see how highly they thought of Lopez and kopech Collins is nearing top 50 territory as well Hansen and fuller could end up in the top 100 by mid season

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 08:51 AM) Hell, probably 2 seasons to prove himself defensively. The team should be in no rush to get him here. Agreed. Unless he fails miserably he will continue to be developed as a catcher. If he can become passable defensively it would be huge for us

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 08:56 AM) Just from Twitter stuff: Radio Levine said he expects deal this week. Anyway, did anyone read that Yankees package he proposed? What was the Yankees package? The Frazier, Mateo one?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 07:51 AM) Love all the people trying to push Collins out of C when they've never even seen the kid play. All reports have him making good progress and it hasn't even been a full year yet. Collins is the C of the future until he proves he can't do it at the MLB level. If his catching was as bad as people around here make it out to be he would have been moved already. Anyway...I still find it hard to believe the Astros don't finally get the deal done. Been saying all along that it makes way too much sense for them. I'd rather see us get a haul from the Yankees though. Frazier, Mateo/Rutherford, Kaprielian/Sheffield is my preferred package. Sounded like Cashman is balking at that but who knows, could all just be posturing. Collins will get the entire season in the minors to show he can handle the position. His bat will be mlb ready fairly quickly, but they should take their time developing his glove through the minor leagues. I expect him to rake in the minors this year, and if the defense progresses he should rocket up top 100 prospect lists