steveno89

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 10:26 AM) You guys are telling me you'd turn down Glasnow, Newman, Keller, Hayes and Diaz? You add two Top 100 arms, two Top 100 (depending on who is ranking) bats and a projectable catcher? Glasnow ranks above Giolito and Kopech right now, Keller is rising fast and Hayes is a Top 10 3B prospect. If Glasnow, Newman, Keller, Hayes, Diaz is on the table, take it and flip Jones/Glasnow for a bat like Frazier or Robles + a flier. And it's Rick Hahn, who loves three way deals. If they include Keller in that offer? Then I'd certainly consider it Without Keller a: Glasnow + Newman + Hayes + Diaz offer is considerably light I don't think they offer 5 prospects in a Q deal when they depend so heavily on their farm system Meadows is the prize of the system with a 65 FV scouting grade (when healthy). Every other prospect listed is a 55 FV grade, at best

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 10:18 AM) I really think if it came to it I'd be content telling Pirates they need to go depth if they're not including Meadows or Bell. Something like Glasnow/Newman/Hayes/Diaz with the possibility of Keller would be a phenomenal deal. Which tells me I'm looking at a deal that wouldn't be offered. That is exactly what the Pirates are hoping for Get the Sox to move off of the true top tier guys in their system like Bell and Meadows, and onto lesser prospects Hahn needs to see through this and hold strong by insisting on Meadows + Glasnow/Keller + Newman/Bell/Hayes

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 10:15 AM) Franklin Perez (HOU) and Ke'Bryan Hayes (PIT) are ranked 66 and 74, respectively in Law's top 100. BOth names bandied about around here in Q rumors. Can someone post the updated rankings list?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 10:14 AM) Franklin Perez (HOU) and Ke'Bryan Hayes (PIT) are ranked 66 and 74, respectively in Law's top 100. BOth names bandied about around here in Q rumors. Seems high for Hayes at this stage of his development. The upside is there to be an average starting 3B, but I would not have him as a top 100 prospect yet

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 07:57 AM) This week, FutureSox will be releasing our new Top 30 White Sox Prospects list. For those unfamiliar, we do these lists twice a year, in January/February and July/August. Usually we release in 2 parts - 16-30, then the full list. But this year, because the system is the deepest it's been in over a decade, we added a third layer. Here is a list of 15 prospects we (the writers at FS) discussed for consideration, but who just missed the Top 30. It's kind of amazing to see that these are real prospects. There are a few names here I'm sure some of you assumed would make the T30. Who is on this list that you thought for sure would be in, or should be in, the Top 30? What are your thoughts on these 15 guys? FYI: Tomorrow we post 16-30, and Thursday will be the full list. Nice to have a few decent prospects outside our top 30 Our system is improving, but still has a long way to go towards improving its overall depth

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 03:59 PM) "Has one of the biggest fastballs in pro baseball....Cease has shown a plus breaking ball and would be fine pitching at 96-99 without trying to hit triple digits. He also has the athleticism and overall repertoire to start if he can stay healthy..." I get the big fastball and projectable frame, but the scouting report seems really inaccurate Scouting grades: Fastball: 70 | Curveball: 60 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 50 | Overall: 55 How does 5.4 BB/9 in Rookie ball and low A ball translate to 50 grade control? I'd say it's 40/45 grade at best

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Not pasting any of the commentary since it's for Insider subscribers... 100. Brandon Woodruff, RHP, Milwaukee Brewers 99. Robert Stephenson, RHP, Cincinnati Reds 98. Sam Travis, 1B, Boston Red Sox 97. Alex Kirilloff, OF, Minnesota Twins 96. Jeff Hoffman, RHP, Colorado Rockies 95. Zack Collins, C, Chicago White Sox 94. Luis Castillo, RHP, Cincinnati Reds 93. A.J. Puk, LHP, Oakland Athletics 92. Christin Stewart, OF, Detroit Tigers 91. Stephen Gonsalves, LHP, Minnesota Twins 90. Jahmai Jones, OF, Los Angeles Angels 89. Jack Flaherty, RHP, St. Louis Cardinals 88. Justus Sheffield, LHP, New York Yankees 87. Kohl Stewart, RHP, Minnesota Twins 86. Dylan Cease, RHP, Chicago Cubs 85. Triston McKenzie, RHP, Cleveland Indians 84. Justin Dunn, RHP, New York Mets 83. Riley Pint, RHP, Colorado Rockies 82. Matt Manning, RHP, Detroit Tigers 81. Sean Newcomb, LHP, Atlanta Braves I get the lofty strikeout numbers, but I'm puzzled as to why the Cubs Dylan Cease is in the top 100 prospects after only throwing 68 innings over two seasons while walking 5.4 batters per 9 innings in rookie ball and low A ball He screams future reliever to me, and that is if he can stay healthy

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 03:11 PM) I'm a peak guy too, so Pedro is easily my #1. Longevity is nice and all but for best ever I think peak should win out. Martinez in 1999 - 2000 was absolute filth

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:57 PM) Inarguably, the best starter of our lifetime (Pedro) and one of the hardest throwers (Wagner) were both tiny guys. I understand they're outliers, however, it just shows how unpredictable these things can be. Pedro is a hall of famer and outlier If you look at the top 25 mlb starting pitcher WAR the vast majority are 6'2" to 6'5" and weigh 195 to 220 lbs

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 01:51 PM) This is where my disconnect is. "Massive flaws" = nowhere near being included on a top 10 prospect list in all of baseball, at least to my way of thinking. I, of course, acknowledge that these various lists out there are not the end all/be all, that as some other posters have pointed out, each team operates under their own understanding of a player's capabilities based on what their scouts are telling them. I would just think someone with such a "big red flag" as you point out which hasn't been corrected by "one of the top pitching organizations in baseball" would not be on ANY of these lists if whatever issue(s) he has is/are as bad as you suggest. Massive flaw might be exaggerated, but a 5.2 BB/9 in AAA this season is concerning moving forward You simply cannot walk that many batters and expect to have consistent success at the mlb level where the hitters are even more patient. I'm not saying he does not deserve to be a top 25 prospect, he does based on stuff and talent.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 01:45 PM) I get that, and I don't disagree, but the Sox badly need hitting prospects. I am all for acquiring and hording as many top prospects as we can. That said, it is obvious that there is a premium on hitting prospects, so I don't think it is as simple as "oh well, we'll just turn Glasnow into a top 5 positional player down the line". Position player prospects are considered to be much less risky and less likely to have injury problems than pitchers Sox might consider the current market to be tapped out and would rather wait until the trade deadline to see what is available

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) I keep seeing this observation made over and over again, but how is it that one of the top 3 pitching prospects in all of baseball as recognized by every legitimate source out there is somehow "not good enough" to headline this potential trade for Quintana? The guy IS a TOP 10 prospect in the game, and is actually rated ahead of the likes of the Torres' and Fraziers' of the world on almost every top prospect list out there. Yes, there is a scouting report here or there making certain comments about his stuff, but if it were that bad, he wouldn't continue to be at the top of all of these lists. I think perhaps our fan base's desire for prospects of the positional player variety may be muddling the true value of this guy as an elite prospect in the game today. Dave Cameron of fangraphs specifically said that Glasnow is not good enough to headline a Quintana deal on his own He guessed the White Sox will require 2 out of Meadows / Bell / Glasnow plus other stuff to get a deal done I am not saying Glasnow is a "bad" prospect, but he is pretty risky considering he has yet to show the ability to consistently throw strikes.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) I actually really like the idea of Glasnow/Keller/Newman/ and Diaz I dont find it light at all It is light for several reasons #1 Surplus Value Quintana's cheap contract makes him worth roughly $133 million in surplus value over the next four seasons Glasnow + Newman + Keller + Diaz #2 Organizational need We have acquired Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Dunning and Diaz in the Sale and Eaton trades. While you can truly never have too much pitching, these acquisitions lessen our need for right handed pitching in a Quintana deal We are seriously lacking in quality position player prospects, and my guess is that Hahn and Co. would like a premium position player prospect as part of the Quintana return. I do not consider Newman to be a "premium" prospect worthy of headlining a Quintana deal due to a lack of power potential. Meadows is pretty clearly the sticking point here. I do not see the Sox agreeing without him in the deal. Newman's value is tied with his ability to stick at SS. His bat is far less attractive at 2B/3B or a corner outfield spot due to the lack of pop. Great hitting approach, but he's far less valuable if he's not playing SS. Diaz projects to be a defense first, backup catcher at the mlb level. He has had multiple 60 day DL stints. Limited upside offensively.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:29 PM) I wouldn't take Tate or Jay over Fulmer even now. Tate and Jay were perhaps overdrafted, but any of those position player prospects the Sox would have taken for sure

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:18 PM) I actually tend to agree with Law's evaluations of starting pitchers/frames. 5'11"-6'1"" who have dominated in the last 40 years have been very few ( Pedro, Cueto, Oswalt, Tim Hudson, Guidry, Lincecum, Valenzuela, Gio Gonzalez). Yes some of these players have really panned out and were elite pitchers and Cy Young winners, but more often than not pitchers with smaller frames end up in bullpen (Wagner, Kimbrel, Robertson, Rodnery, Flash Gordon, etc) lose their plus stuff quicker, or arm/body breaks down. One of the concerns and worries I have with Carson Fulmer and Reynoldo Lopez are their size and being to withstand 162 games in the starting rotation. It's not the #1 concern with Fulmer and Lopez (Mechanics #1), but it's very high up their. Sox were stuck in a tough spot picking #8 in 2015 Every player picked above them I think they would have drafted over Fulmer: 1) Swanson 2) Bregman 3) Rodgers 4) Tate 5) Tucker 6) Jay 7) Benintendi They did what they felt was the best selection at the time was in Fulmer. At 6' 200 lbs he has less than ideal size for a starting pitcher and likely is best suited to a bullpen role, but he should be given the opportunity to start in AAA this season

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:16 PM) Meadows, Newman, Keller , Hayes, Diaz. Pirates are not trading 5 of their top 10 prospects for Quintana

QUOTE (beautox @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 12:10 PM) If rumbunter's right and Hahn had/has the deal on the table, good for him for holding out. Meadows / Bell / Keller and Q is in the black and gold. I don't think the Pirates are willing to trade Bell as they view his bat as being essential to the middle of their order moving forward

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) For a top prospect like Glasnow, scouts sure seem pretty split on him. If the Sox' scouts and coaches aren't sold, then he's not much of a headliner. Plain and simple. We're not just going by prospect rankings here. It's entirely possible the Sox just don't like him all that much. If the Sox value him as a top 10 prospect, I suspect a deal would probably be done by now. Glasnow on his own is not a good enough prospect to headline a Quintana deal 5.2 BB/9 in the minors this season does not make anyone warm and fuzzy about his control developing. I am not saying he can't or will not improve, but right now he seems like the kind of pitcher that will rack up a bunch of k's, but also a bunch of 5+ walk games leading to maddening inconsistency Glasnow + Keller + Newman + one more is not the right package for the White Sox. We need at least one premium bat and one premium arm coming back to us in order to deal Quintana Something along the liens of: Meadows + Glasnow + Diaz + Comp Balance Pick for Quintana

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 06:58 AM) Hopefully he won't be on the team in 2017. He can't hit, field or throw anybody out. He's a bum. Having him as the starting catcher should tell everybody what type of a team the White Sox will have in 2017. I'm real curious to see what the advertising campaign is going to be this year. Maybe it will be "Wait til next year". Narvaez to me seems like he could develop into a solid backup catcher He offers no power, but does draw walks and limit strikeouts With even average defense you can't ask much more from a backup Now should he be starting? No

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:33 AM) well astros are out and looks like pirates too. Astros are "out" until they pick up the phone and call Hahn whenevr they choose Boston was thought to be out on Sale, until they weren't

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:25 AM) I could argue that Meadows and Glasnow is a better haul than the Sale deal. No chance that happens for Q IMO. Meadows has had injury problems, whereas Moncada has been healthy as far as I know. That does play a factor in prospect value. Glasnow's upside is considerable, but some scouts appear to be down on him because the control has not really developed and he still walks too many batters. Meadows + Glasnow is similar in return to Moncada + Kopech. It's arguable which is a "better" return, but Kopech is three years younger than Glasnow and still has quite a bit of projection left. Moncada > Meadows, not by a massive margin, but the injury history certainly gives Moncada the edge Glasnow > Kopech right now, but not by a huge margin

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:46 AM) Law's evaluations of bats have been as good as any publication writer over the internet age. He's outstanding. If I like a guy (on the position side) and then I hear Law likes him, I'll dive in and usually come out looking good. Law's evaluations of pitchers is almost like punching in numbers into a system. Under 6'1"? Under 185? Automatic reliever. 6'3"+ but very thin frame? Automatic reliever. Throws hard with bad mechanics? Automatic reliever. Law wants every pitcher to be 6'4" 215 lbs with perfect mechanics. I just don't think mechanics are as predictable as Law's writeups would give credence to. It's not even like he would argue that but he just bets on the workhorse bodies and does his presumptuous, writing-off of any guy who doesn't apply. Frankly, it's not the worst strategy given the tough task that Law has to do but at the same time, he knows some of these unconventional deliver/smaller body guys are going to work out and they're going to keep making him like bad (See Sale, See Carlos Martinez, Hopefully see Reynaldo Lopez). Physical analysis is not a horrible way to scout players, but it does need to be considered amongst other factors. Fulmer and Lopez both have the physical build more prone to becoming relievers. Giolito, Kopech, Dunning, Hansen and Burdi have excellent pitchers frames though

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213958338/20...picid=151437456 It's hindsight for sure but I wish the Sox took Ian Happ instead of Fulmer. Happ has not proven anything to this point either. His defense is questionable. Sox should not have rushed Fulmer to the majors in 2016, and a season in AAA will hopefully help him get back on track It's too soon to call Fulmer a bust

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:39 AM) Listening to Collins and the White Sox org speak I really get the feeling his chances behind the plate are being underrated by a lot of national guys. I dont expect Law to spend 3 hours of his life listening to podcasts about Zack Collins, BUT I HAVE! and I think if he did too he'd change his tune a little on the defensive side of his evaluation. So you take that kind of bullish offensive report and combine with his a positive defensive trajectory....to me I'm encouraged. I dont care about #95 whatever, I feel better about Collins after reading Law's take on him despite the ranking. I am very confident in Collins bat, approach and power potential. Even passable defense will make him an elite prospect in my opinion.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:17 AM) Law doesn't think favorably of any White Sox prospect. Our position player prospects leave a ton to be desired Outside of Moncada, Collins, and Basabe none of our position player prospects currently project to be mlb regulars Fisher and Call were solid draft picks, but they have a bunch of questions to answer Beyond that the farm is pretty depressing position player wise