steveno89

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 09:00 AM) I would do that deal as well. And I definitely didn't see it in his series of tweets. My bad. I see that offer as a depth package, but one with fairly limited upside Newman's value is tied to him sticking at SS, which is no guaranty with Tim Anderson at the position right now. Sox likely want to keep Moncada at 2B, and I do not like how Newman's bat profiles at 2B or 3B with the lack of power. 50 FV at SS/45 FV if he has to move positions. Hayes is a long ways off the majors, but I don't hate him as a final piece 50 FV, I'd go 45 FV at this point due to how far from the bigs he is. Glasnow is a great second piece in a Quintana deal, but his control issues make him far too risky to headline on his own. 55 FV Keller had a great 2016 season, but forearm issues have me concerned. He has mid rotation potential, but is a ways off the mlb. 55 FV Meadows is the gem of the Pirates system right now and would need to be packaged with Glasnow to headline a Quintana deal

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 08:52 AM) As I pointed above, Rumbunter never hinted or suggested that the above package is the offer Hahn recently rejected. Rumors seem to indicate the Pirates are offering up a Glasnow + Newman headlined deal, perhaps with Keller on the table as well. While those are all good prospects, I would not trade Quintana for a package like that. Newman has far below average power (.100 ISO), which limits his upside to a contact/obp middle infielder.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 08:49 AM) Would be interested to know where Law had Schwarber ranked the year after he was drafted. I think most experts agree Collins has a better chance of sticking at catcher than Scwarber. #95 feels a bit low to me. Collins is a guy I can see being a top 50 prospect by mid season if he plays up to his ability. I fully expect that bat to perform really well and he should get moved up to AA at some point before the end of the season. It's too soon to write him off at catcher

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 08:14 AM) I actually don't see where he says this. Another poster just said that Hahn isn't crazy for rejecting that package but don't see Rumbunter saying that is the deal. I would turn down that proposal as well Pirates are not getting Quintana if both Meadows and Bell are off the table

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 07:13 AM) This sounds like a Donald Trump speech. You aren't going to say it out right. You are just going to make a bunch of innuendo and hints about it, and pretend that isn't what you are saying so you can be right with both sides, and then just make up anything else to fit the narrative. You can't just take an offer to another team for another player and assume that is what we are being offered, especially when a report is out there that contradicts that. As has been stated before, Hahn did not "give up" on Devers really. He was already getting the consensus #1 overall prospect in baseball and a top 5 right handed pitching prospect as well. DD knew that no other team could beat those headliners and that the White Sox would be foolish to pass up a Moncada + Kopech centered deal. Q has not been traded because teams have been unwilling to put the correct headlining pieces into a trade offer. Meadows and/or Bell absolutely have to be in a Pirates proposal or a deal will not work. Martes + Tucker have to be in a proposal, along with alot more. Torres needs to be in a Yankees offer, etc. We have the leverage in negotiations with Quintana being under control for 4 more seasons. That is huge. If the right deal is not presenting itself right now then we absolutely should reevaluate at the deadline. There very well could be new suitors that emerge, as well as prospect who take big steps forward. Ideally, our price gets met soon, but it's looking like Quintana will break camp with the Sox. Just be patient and let this process play out.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 03:45 PM) I can reasonably assume that the Sox have been offered a similar deal that the Rays were sent for Archer and that the Sox are leaving it on the table because they want Musgrove or Bregman. Not taking much of a leap on that, and I think that's a good deal that makes the Sox better long term. Also if they had been shopping Sale for a year I would hope they have also had talks on Quintana. This FO can do more than one thing at a time. Your reaching to assume a certain trade offer was made. We just don't know. Tucker, martes and paulino is not getting it done. We are better keeping Quintana than dealing him for a subpar offer like that

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 03:35 PM) I'm not asking anyone to sell me on the Boston players. What I am asking is if Hahn was so eager to trade Sale even if his price wasn't met why won't he do the same for Quintana? And why is everyone so willing to excuse this double standard? I mean I see a lot of people who say "well if they won't meet Hahn's price they should jus t keep him", but Boston didn't meet Hahn's price on Sale and everyone rushes to tell me how great that trade was. I want the Sox to do well, but I'm getting to the point where I have serious issues with how this rebuild is taking shape. There is no reason Melky, Fraz, Abreu, Jones, Robertson, Migo etc. should ALL be on the team to open the season. The "well the market for these guys hasn't developed" excuse doesn't work. A serious market has developed for Quintana but they're not trading him, multiple teams have been connected to Robertson but talks around him are dead (they should feel lucky to give him away to avoid paying him), Frazier and Melky both walk away for nothing in a year...I don't know. It's not even February yet so I'm not going to start assuming things, but I am going to ask questions about the motivations of the front office to move the players they did. We have no idea what offers have been made on any of the players you mentioned. If a deal could be made then Hahn would pull the trigger, obviously that has not happened. You're advocating settling for less on Quintana, which we have no reason to do. It took at least a year of sale trade talks for the deal to finally happen, be patient. Trust the organization with the rebuild until they fail

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 11:12 AM) Sorry Sox system is better than 10, top 5 easy. SOS from Law when it comes to the Sox. Our system is very top heavy right now, and really tails off after the top ten. This is not the end of the world, but we need to improve our prospect depth, especially with position players and left handed pitchers

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 22, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) Why is Hahn excused for settling on Sale (a superior player to Q btw) deal that was more realistic when he won't do the same for Quintana? Moncada is one of, if not the best prospect in baseball. Kopech is a big time rising prospect who is now in the top thirty Basabe is a nice third piece and Diaz is a bullpen lottery ticket I'd hardly call that settling for sale. Moncada can be a franchise player for the white sox.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) If he's willing to wait a month for the right deal for Jose Quintana he could've done the same to get Rafael Devers from Boston. Devers was never going to be in that deal. Boston knew nobody could match up with moncada as a headliner

QUOTE (Soha @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 02:28 PM) I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training). The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing. Likely the sox have not had much interest in frazier, melky or abreu yet. Why accept a poor offer for the sake of tanking? I don't think the sox are the worst team in baseball, even if Quintana gets traded. Have you seen the padres rotation?

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) It definitely could be posturing but I do wonder. Beane probably doesn't want to deal with him and the Sox/Rays are asking for players he wont trade. His loss. That team likely isnt going to a win division with that rotation. I know I'm not going to find many who agree, but I think Luhnow would give up Bregman for Quintana 1-for-1. That way he can move Gurriel to the 3rd and find some way to make 1b work with Marwin Gonzalez and/or AJ Reed. It actually hurts their 2017 chances more to move Musgrove, they are probably going to need him if (when) McCullers needs time off. Or if Keuchels shoulder problems just rob him completely of his abilities. White sox absolutely should not accept bregman for Quintana straight up

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 12:43 PM) I would get so much satisfaction from the Astros rotation completely blowing it next season. They are under a ton of pressure to win with all the moves they have made. They could enter the season without adding pitching, but it doesn't set them up to contend.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 03:50 PM) I don't know why they turned down that offer from the Astros. If I am the Rays, there is no way I deal 5 seasons of Archer for Martes + Tucker + Paulino ++ None of those prospects are truly elite in my eyes Archer is dirt cheap for the next 5 seasons. He is not the type of player you trade for anything less than a Moncada/Swanson/Benintendi/Bregman/Turner level headliner plus alot more

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 02:39 PM) I am plenty calm. Just sick of reading your same BS over and over and over again. #1) This is complete and total conjecture. Reed is no longer a prospect, but if he were, he would be in their top 3. This guy was the #2 prospect behind Bregman 12 months ago and a top 20 guy in the whole game. Sure, he had a brutal cup of coffee in the majors, but his value is not nearly as far in the s***ter as you make it out to be. And again - you're making the giant leaps of assumption. "Paulino + 2 is about equal to Reed and Fischer". How can you make that determination when you have zero clue what the +2 is? They could be 19 year old rookie ballers for all we know, and since the names weren't reported, it is far safer to assume they are closer to a throw in then a top 100 prospect. #2) An extra year of control is a pretty big deal. A year ago, someone would have laughed at you had you said Q was more valuable that Archer. Archer is cheaper, controlled longer, and a far more dominating pitcher (career K/9 of 9.3 vs. 7.4). These are meaningful facts. #3) I never said Tucker, Reed, Fischer, and Martes beats the Sale deal. I said it "rivals" the Sale deal, and beats the Eaton deal. #4) LOL. Moncada is a far better prospect than Tucker, but the rest of the deal after the centerpieces, I like this made up Astros package far better. Kopech is maybe a tad better prospect that Martes, but certainly not ">>". These guys were just ranked #4 and #5 respectively on the updated RHP top 10. Its close to a wash, and while Kopech maybe has a higher upside, Martes is a safer bet and closer to the bigs. After that, the Astros deal is far better on the last 2 pieces. Your Basabe = Reed comparison made me laugh. Thanks for that. And Fischer is a legitimate OF prospect and Diaz is a complete and utter lottery ticket. Seems like there is a 1% chance of Archer getting traded I think the Rays would require a Turner / Bregman / Swanson / Benintendi / Moncada level prospect to even go beyond initial discussions

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 11:36 AM) Tucker has never projected to have big time power. His swing mechanics and path will always be an issue for having any plus power. I have an issue with Tucker being the headliner and he's only played 16 games in A+. Yes he has a big ceiling, but we are talking about Christian Yelich with less speed at best. He's not a slam dunk guarantee prospect that will make it in the majors. Tucker still has questions to be answered at the higher levels. Hahn is being smart and patient eventually a team will have a need and will trade a more established position prospect whether its this off season, trade deadline, or next year. No rush other than hurts your chances of getting a Top 3 choice in this years draft. Tucker is a good prospect, but certainly not enough to headline a Q deal on his own The power potential is purely projection at this point. He will play most of this season in high A Lancaster, which is one of the best hitters parks in the minor leagues. There are not many glaring downsides to Tucker, except if he cannot play center field the power will have to develop to hold down a corner outfield spot.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:23 AM) If top players aren't available, it would take a really deep and quantity based package to still give the White Sox good value. I'm all for depth, but the smart move is to acquire several elite prospects who have the potential to be game changers for our franchise Suitors top prospects must be on the table or a deal is not getting done (see Eaton and Sale deals for reference)

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:03 AM) So f'in sick of this narrative. I think fans do need mentally prepare for Quintana to be on our roster opening day The stove seems to have considerably cooled as of late, and the likelihood he gets dealt before spring training is getting slimmer and slimmer, which is ok.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 08:29 AM) Is holding Quintana until the trading deadline (or next off-season) a gamble worth taking if his value is high right now? Any fear that he won't be as good on a team that is expected to bottom out over the next year? I'd hate to see the White Sox hold out for an A+ deal if an A deal could be had right now, only to see his value diminish over the next year (injury, subpar season, etc.). A gamble? Yes, but Quintana is not just a flash in the pan pitcher coming off one great season. He has been excellent for the past 4 seasons in a row. If you believe him to be as valuable as we say he is, then have the confidence to enter the season with him. I'm not suggesting that is ideal, but Q is not leaving for less than a major return. A's aren't selling low on Gray, Rays are not going to trade Archer. Q is available, but for a big pricetag. I feel they stick firmly to the "three elite prospects" asking price

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 07:48 AM) We have no idea what the real offers are. The fact is, if you are scared not trading Quintana this offseason screws everything up, his being just as valuable is probably a better bet than even if they received the exact same package for Sale all working out. I would imagine the Sox have some really nice offers, maybe one or two where they would pull the trigger, but I think they like another team's players even better and may be waiting to see if they will become involved. Ultimately what will matter is how the guys they get actually play, not where BA or Keith Law or BP or MLB.com rank them before they ever play a major league game. Well said It's not just about where in the top 100 prospects a player(s) falls, but how the Sox organization sees potential acquisitions as a fit for their future. Clearly the offers have not fit into what the Sox are looking for as of yet. We have to remember the Sox are not under pressure to compete this season, or next for that matter and can take their time during this process. The Astros are certainly in win now mode, and the Pirates are financially strapped and Quintana offers the best chance to bring in a TOR starter they can afford that they do not develop in house. Braves are sitting on the sidelines observing, along with other mystery teams perhaps All it takes is one team to make a serious offer before everyone tips their hand

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 08:51 PM) We've been hearing this same 'ol stuff out of Colorado since Mark Hampton and Darryl Kile. It's not just the Rockies rotation that is the issue. That bullpen was awful last year.

QUOTE (Hamhock @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 05:03 PM) You get a member email sent to you every month that contains the list of games for the following month (which you choose on the usual Single Game tickets page on whitesox.com) and your membership code number that you enter on Ticketmaster to get your discounted Lower Box offer. Hate to be cynical, but when you can purchase tickets day of the game on stubhub for $8.00 - $11.00 it's hard to justify paying much more

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) Worth noting that Collins was #2 previously, but that probably has more to do with those ahead of him upping their stock, versus Collins dropping. I expect Collins to move upwards on the top 100 list. If Collins can stick at catcher, the overall tools he brings make him the best catching prospect in baseball in my opinion Hit hit tool and power tool are the best of the top catching prospects by a considerable margin A passable catcher who can hit is worth gold

QUOTE (The Gooch @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:06 PM) I think a 20-win season would have helped his chances a bit. He would also own the record for most starts going 6 or more innings if it wasn't for the Cowboy Joe West. I think what he has going for him outside of numbers is that he was not only the definition of a durable pitcher, but has also thrown a no-no and a perfect game (not to mention the other times he has faced the minimum) while topping out at 90-91. MB is my favorite of all time and I am hoping he gets in like Raines did, toward the end of his eligibility. His 214 wins will look like a lot more by then too. I don't think Konerko or Beuhrle have the resume to make it into the HOF Thome does and should be first ballot

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 11:16 AM) I bet he has: 10. Mets 9. Reds 8. Rockies 7. Dodgers 6. Padres 5. Brewers 4. White Sox 3. Pirates 2. Yankees 1. Braves I'd go 1) Braves 2) Yankees 3) Brewers 4) White Sox 5) Padres 6) Pirates 7) Dodgers 8) Rockies 9) Reds 10) Mets