steveno89

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 02:22 PM) I understand what he is saying. It depends on what they can get. To me, if the best offers are Martes, Paulino, Fischer, lottery ticket type package - the opportunity cost would be minimal. You can get that deal (not literally) a year from now. We need an elite headliner on the offensive side. If the Sox were interested In another pitcher headlined package, prettty sure we'd have Glasnow right now . You prefer fisher to tucker in a Houston package?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:26 PM) Sure you do. Most players never even get the 58 PAs. Garcia has far more potential than coats. Coats likely goes unclaimed and gets sent back to Charlotte

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:28 PM) There's also no guarantee we will need a pitcher like Quintana in 3 years. I've referred to it as the pitching Death Star before, but the Sox minor leagues are now packed with some of the best young arms in baseball and they figure to continue to add more over the next 18 months. If the Sox can develop these guys, something they have definitely shown the ability to do, they wont need Q. Now is the ideal time to get a rival club to cave and offer up a big package. They can justify it with the four remaining seasons of control in his prime. I like Quintana a lot, but he could net us multiple valuable pieces to jumpstart the rebuild

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) And they don't pay him much the next couple of years especially. Not trading him now, the White Sox risk injury and declining performance. Other than that, very little IMO. The thought I have is if he continues to pitch like he has pitched, if they hang on to him, how would the offers differ next offseason, or when he has 2 years left on his deal? I think the packages would sound about the same. It is a guy who has 4 years at a bargain price. Those guys generally don't get traded, and generally you don't have to hear how the other team has prospects off limits. Pitchers being traded of Q's status have been guys with 2 years or less left on their deals.What Sale commanded should have been unprecedented. Same with Eaton, and now with Q. Moncada changed the dynamic of a big time trade, because for pretty much any other MLB system he would be totally untouchable. Guys like tucker, musgrove, martens are not in the same class of prospect as moncada.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) Dave Cameron put this best, so I am going to blatantly copy and paste what he said and then link to the chat in question. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-camero...aphs-chat-1417/ Well said. Sox will most likely deal Quintana to aid the rebuild, but not unless they get a great return. Q is our final blue chip trade piece that can acquire elite young players. After him it will rely on scouting well, drafting well, shrewd moves, free agency, some luck, etc to get where we need to be.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 12:42 PM) I don't think anyone has made any decision on Jason Coats. The White Sox are likely making a strategic gamble that Coats will pass through waivers based on his talent. It's probably a safe bet. Like I said, if he keeps raking, he'll be back up eventually. I doubt coats gets claimed. Every MLB team has similar players in their system. Being realistic, he is a fourth outfielder at best. Classic AAAA player

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 12:39 PM) If 2.4 WAR is a bad season, then I'd hate to see a really bad season. He was down from his peak, but in no way, shape, or form did Todd Frazier have a bad season last year. Baseball reference put Frazier at 3.4 war. Hardly a bad season

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) And Balta is right - if the Pirates don't trade Cutch, then they don't have room for Meadows. It's not like they can DH Cutch. Meadows will spend the entire season in AAA ball. They can always deal him at the deadline Bregman, much like trea turner, will never be on the table. If no Musgrove, then I want reed and perez instead. A martes, tucker, reed and perez deal would be a haul for the sox, while not hurting their mlb lineup

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 07:21 PM) I usually try not to bash many sites or people for their sources or lack of but Sports Mockery is legit trash when it comes to this stuff. I know it's trash, but it's interesting to discuss

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 07:15 PM) True, but who knows how well Moncada would adjust to a different position. It might be better to keep him in a spot he's comfortable with. Sports mockery suggests the Astros are offering martes, tucker and paulino for Quintana. Feels light. Give me reed and perez instead of paulino

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 07:01 PM) Meadows is cutch replacement not happening Bregman I'd not going anywhere. If the Astros get reasonable then I can see a trade based around martes, tucker ++ working

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:22 PM) It's a bit simplistic, but had we had the same position in 2015 that we had in 2014, we could have selected Brendan Rodgers (current Q target, top ten prospect), Kyle Tucker (current Q target, top 50 prospect), and Andrew Benintendi (self explanatory). Same could be said for nearly every draft. Hopefully we can select a solid prospect number 11 overall who can help us

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:33 PM) Just to be fair to the OP, his original point was using Rodon to take the "lesser" packages offered for Q. I think that's a fair question not to get lost in the "better offer than Q" posts. But also I still don't think Rodon is at a good sell point. Fully expect him gone .5 season before FA though. Right now the sox will keep him, ride out five of his prime seasons and see where that takes them

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:19 PM) How in the world does Rodon have any where close to the value that Quintana has? The Yankees would never do that BlackSox. Just no. Rodon has more potential, but Quintana is a better pitcher now and a better bet the next four seasons. Rodon is controlled for five seasons and is a guy the sox should build around

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:12 PM) Abreast always makes things better. Abreu haha, my bad

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) Though it's taking time to come to fruition, it is still very likely that a Quintana trade will happen in the next few weeks. But here's a hypothetical "what if" scenario. IF the elite trade packages for Quintana never materialize, with the Pirates, Astros, Yankees, etc. never really offering the top prospects the Sox want, what would you think about trading Carlos Rodon for the good-but-not-great prospect packages like the ones we hear rumored on the table now and keeping Quintana to be ace going forward? At first blush, the drawbacks are apparent: Rodon is younger, has an extra year of team control and would fetch less in a trade. But, to play devil's advocate for a moment, Quintana is a bona fide top of the rotation starter who is very consistent and durable. At age 27, he projects to be great for quite a while still. Rodon has not hit his ceiling yet, and looks good so far, but he is likely to be less consistent and a higher injury risk than Quintana. If teams are willing to put together a package for Rodon than is nearly as good as the ones we are seeing rumored for Q (hypothetical), could the Sox be better off down this road? Would it make sense to take "full value" on a Rodon trade as opposed to "75 cents on the dollar" for a theoretical Quintana trade? Is five years of very good and possibly elite that much better than four years of almost-certainly elite? I think the case could be made that Quintana will be easier to extend/re-sign when the time comes than Boras-represented Rodon will be. Would that factor in for you at all? Again, this is all moot if Hahn eventually pries one of the elite packages for Quintana (which I hope happens, and soon). But if not, is this a discussion worth having? Rodon is set to really breakout in 2017, why deal him when he very much can be part of our future? His SIERA was 25th in the MLB in 2016 I believe. The return would have to be massive for it to even be considered.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) One of these is not like the other. One is completely worth tanking for, the other is not. I've showed the graph time and time again: expected WAR of the first 2-3 picks is much, much greater than the rest of the 1st round. You need to suck hard to get the potential superstars. Yes, they don't always pan out, but more often than not if you draft top 3 you get at least an average MLB player eventually. I don't see the sox as the worst team in baseball, or even bottom three, unless we deal Quintana and abreu. The padres rotation is terrible. The twins appear set on a weak season as well. Abreast, Cabrera,, Anderson, Frazier is enough of a lineup from being worst in the mlb

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 3, 2017 -> 01:19 PM) I think the Pirates could acquire Q without Meadows quite easily (Sox aren't turning down Glasnow/Bell/Newman/Keller) but its a game of chicken figuring out how those remaining pieces fit. I think the Pirates are trying to unload McCutchen first and that pursuit is holding up their offer. I highly doubt Pittsburgh would be willing to offer a Glasnow, bell, Newman and Keller package for Quintana. No team can clear out that much future talent for one player, even Quintana

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) It's going to happen this offseason. Like the out of nowhere bidding war on cespedes in late January, when Q is truly close there will be a bidding war. Sox clearly are trying to prod some teams in thinking they have a chance so they can shop legitimate offers. But until it appears Q is truly close to moving, it's too early to lay down your cards. The sale deal with the Red Sox was a year in the making. Quintana more than likely will be traded, but you just have to wait for the right timing and right return.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:20 AM) I would disagree that a small sample size (under 100 AB) will significantly change the value of the prospect. It does change if it's closer to half a full season. The value changes if the MLB is counting on them for the upcoming year, regardless of the performance the past year. Small sample sizes won't totally right off a prospect, but they can damage their stock. AJ reeds disastrous 48 games was enough to bring his prospect stock into question. Joey Gallo has done massive damage to his stock as well. Moncada I am not worried about. He got rushed to the MLB level and has never played at AAA. Giolito had a tough second half, but still posted pretty solid AAA numbers. He could bounce back in 2017.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) So I'm missing one thing here, what is the additional risk that we'd have to take on to apply pressure to them? No matter what we do the calculus isn't going to change - there are only a handful of teams left who could offer an appropriate price, and until more than 1 of them decides he's a priority the other teams can wait for our price to fall. What can the White Sox do to change this dynamic other than drop his price or wait? There really is no risk for the sox. Quintanas contract is very unique and affordable in the current market. Pretty much any team could fit him into their payroll. That will come at a premium of multiple top prospects, we just have to be patient. Keeping Quintana is not the worst idea either. I know we have position player needs, but he could be viewed as a cheap piece to help build around if we do not get the offers we would like. In an ideal situation we trade him, but I would not be willing to discount his price at all.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 31, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) I don't know, the reality is Glasnow + Newman is more than probably than 26 other teams could offer at this point. And of the others are teams like phillies/brewers that aren't in Qs market. So when it's just pirates vs yanks/braves/rox and two of the three are hypothetical, why do they feel pressure to offer bell/Meadows right away? I don't think the sox feel comfortable with a Glasnow + Newman headlined deal. Newman is solid defensively and has a plus hit tool, but offers no power whatsoever. I'd love him as a third piece, but not as a headliner

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) Rasmus, Storen, and Worley (only if Q is traded) are the ones for me. Each of those guys might be interesting on one year deals

QUOTE (fredmanrique @ Dec 30, 2016 -> 03:26 PM) What if quintana goes somewhere that isnt NYY or PIT but all the discussions ultimately send other players to those clubs. Just killing time, a scenario such as this feels nice: Q to Hou: Tucker, Martes, Reed, Cameron Rodon, Robertson to NYY: Rutherford, Mateo, Andujar Abreu, Jones to PIT: Newman, Keller, Hayes Why would the pirates trade for Aubrey when they have bell for way cheaper? That would be selling low on Rodon, who is poised to break out in 2017.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 29, 2016 -> 11:44 PM) Its pretty clear the Sox goal is to build a pitching Death Star by 2019 and hope that Moncada, Abreu (I think he's here for life), Collins, Anderson and whoever else they can develop by that time will provide enough defense to make the pitchers job easy and just enough offense to score 3 or 4 runs with some regularity. Of course the glue of that kind of team will be the battery, and they will need to find 2, possibly 3, good (defensively at least) catchers to man it. There's really no time to waste finding those catchers. The proverbial pitching death star still has a long way to go and still needs offense to back it up.