he gone.

That's a bit too conspiracy. It's pretty simple if you ask me. It's not about the vaccine at all. It's not about the science of a vaccine. It's about being anti-government, anti-mandate, pro choice to make your own decisions, and that the messaging continues to shift. "two weeks to flatten the curve" "non-essential businesses must shut down to help" (meanwhile every corporation was okay to stay open) "the vaccine will set you free" "now you need a booster to enjoy your freedoms" :"here is our six step plan to eradicate a virus" (that can't be eradicated) Or how yesterday you have the economic counsel yesterday say that food inflation isn't really all that bad. it's actually normal if you just take out the pork, beef, and chicken prices ... yah okay, cause nobody eats those. basically? who trusts the government? so this is an opportunity to make their voice heard. Or how they skirt the actual science while touting science. if you want to go to hawaii? a saints game, a blackhawks game? etc. etc. you have to either be vaccinated or show negative test. how does that actually make sense? the real science would be a negative test to get in... you can produce these rapid tests for pennies. we spent trillions on a response, but can't spend the pennies to make these rapid tests available to the masses? the vaccine HELPS reduce spread. it's not fool proof. hell, the immunity is rolling off ... someone who contracted covid in the past 3 months has more immunity and protection against the spread than a vaccinated person. But that doesn't fit the "us v them" model that needs to be created. so theres a whole set of people who are creating this "vaccinated v unvaccinated" story line. in general republicans are going to lean towards individual freedoms and rights and choices. i dont think a lot of those people are thinking of this as "i dont believe science" - more I'm not going to listen to the government. It's a lot of people who are frankly fed up with the government and this is their symbolic stand that they aren't going to take it. Or at least its how i view it.

You do nothing. You use your 1,000 years of managing experience with cases similar to this and try to snap him out of it. He's a rookie and been a key part to this team. He hasn't been ideal with RISP, but this is not the time to make any changes. If he still can't get a hit with RISP and its now October? Then bring in a pinch hitter if it's necessary.

DALLAS FREAKING KEUCHEL DAY! LFG! 9 INNING CG, SHUTOUT HERE WE COME!

this is great news. i feel like we're a totally different team defensively, and frankly offensively with a healthy engel.

Nope, I am not. Why? Because every team can have this discussion ... Boston is going to have to roll out a shaky ERod and then either Houck or Pivetta Houston will have to roll out a 3rd and 4th starter of Urquidy, Luis Garcia (w IP limitations that have been already passed), or Odorizzi. Yankees will have what? Kluber, Taillon, J. Montgomery? Not exactly murderers row behind Cole. Oakland? They're taped together right now with Irvin falling apart. Montas and Manaea are bi-polar. Go through unhittable stretches and then pain. Seattle makes it? Good luck after Marco Gonzalez ... flexen, kikuchi and his 6era post ASB, logan gilbert with a rookie arm that's been slowing down? Tampa - the best team right? Well, last i check they keep rolling out Yarbs, Wacha, Archer, etc. Patino and McClanahan are two fireballer rookie arms, but still TBD how that holds up in playoffs. So no, I'm not concerned with a team that has Cease, Rodon, Lynn and Giolito. We have the horses, even if currently scraped up and bruised to keep us in the hunt regardless.

Okay. Cool. So will every team except for one. Also, wasting time on people like you never is worth it. People like to bring others down with them. Social vampires. I'll enjoy this team, the full ballparks, the excitement, the Pennant race, playoff baseball, another season of Jose Abreu, the resurgence of Rodon, Robert looking like a star, etc. You on the other hand can continue to cheer against the team, all while surrounding yourself with a White Sox message board to make sure you can't get away from your misery.

simply put, yes. this. the other hardest part is trying to decipher what we are chasing as a society .... zero transmission? zero deaths? zero deaths that are preventable? we don't have a clear goal, so then it gets jumbled and complicated.

oh definitely. desantis is just as, if not more guilty than 98% of the news out there. he's playing theatre too. all it's pick and choose. it's actually a lot like a conversation on this board to be honest ... it's picking out statistics the protect a narrative in order to make one feel better about their choices and decisions. its like ss2k saying "well i guess you don't care about human life" it's blanket statements with no truth it. everybody is a hypocrite in some right. the key is to try not to be a hypocrite all the time. You can do it for any topic ... the same people who talk about the environment drive an suv and live in a 4,000 sq house, buying useless clothes, take long showers, jump on a plane to their vacations, etc. everybody is full of shit in life, the key is to not be less full of shit.

hand up you are right here. i was looking at the chart on figure one which notes "of the 58% of people who have received one dose" and then breaks out by race. In that one the highest is hispanic is 17%. However that is using a denominator of just vaccinated individuals, not subsets of each race. which in this case, theres a shit ton of white people in this country, so that's not a great graph. figure 3 is the correct graph i should've been referencing. asians at 67%, hispanic 45% and black 40%. White is 50%. Much more even . I wouldn't use a base word of "propaganda" there, but to each their own. i was wrong in my graph reading.

we're so far off in our personal values that we won't ever come close to agreeing. if there was a venn diagram, we'd overlap zero. And for that reason, you're muted good sir.

is it party lines or is that what they want you to think? just like all these stories focus on FL ... when in reality FL vaccination rates are just about the same as IL. The reason they focus on FL is because it's a swing state with a prospectus candidate to come out of that state. (i've voted democrat over the past three elections ... so can't pin me here) Which state do you think has higher vaccination %: Colorado or Florida? The truth is that less than 20% of black, Hispanic and Asians are vaccinated. by age per cdc: 75 and older: 75% 65 to 74: 78% 50-64: 75% 40-49: 66% 25-39: 57% 18-24: 54% I don't disagree that party lines DOES play a role. it surely does. but i would say age and race very much drive the decision as well.

That sounds like a great alternative. SS2k has convinced me. I want to live in that world. Let's all lockdown like China and Australia. Then if i go to the grocery store and catch covid as a vaccinated individual and give it to some obese 75 year old i get to go to jail!! personal responsibility! And this is why this thread goes off the rails every ... single ... time ... the argument went from talking about the rate of hospitalizations in kids, to how and when do we move away from current protocols, what are the reasonable next steps, to we should prosecute and track every individual like some sort of nanny state government. shocking.

Nothing ... good luck proving in court that ONE individual was responsible. It's a silly "what if" argument. What if someone who has the vaccine contracts it and passes it to a person who is unprotectible? It's a rabbit hole and has no basis in reality. These are the type of back and forth conversations that add nothing to move anything forward. It's trying to catch people in a gotcha moment. or a "you dont care about people, you're a bad person" argument. its baseless, pointless drivel. it's trying to pit "us vs them". bad narrative.

There are many people with a compromised immune system. Many. They should be getting the vaccination. They should be in line for the booster when available. They should be focusing on what they can do personally to protect themselves (where they go, when they go, personal food choices, personal fitness choices, etc. etc.) You can't protect everybody and can't make decisions for a majority because of a minority. It's not a perfect world. I haven't seen my 100 year old grandma since Covid ... she's not comfortable with it even though Im vaccinated. she's very compromised. everybody knows someone who is compromised. unless youre proposing an Australian like response where the whole country locks down every time a case happens theres going to be consequences for actions.

Yes we agree. and there will be billions of people unvaccinated. imagine going into africa where 400,000 die of malaria a year and telling them that the 177k that died via covid is a bigger deal. those are apples and oranges, but vaccinating the world is a tall, tall task. whether this started out of a lab or a wet market ... look at that point of origin ... eradicating it is probably off the table. And two teachers dying ... sad ... aren't they eligible for the vaccine? they should've been getting said vaccine. Right? Like we can't as a society hold back and keep distancing and wearing masks, etc. for the people who've made a decision that goes against science. you have to keep moving forward. those who refuse the vaccine are making their own choice and have to live w hte consequences.

How so? I presented numbers. Up to you on how you want to interpret those numbers and how you want to use those. Everybody is going to have a different risk appetite which is the complicated part. I'm not telling you what you should do with your kids or life. That's up to you. Every decision you make is always a risk reward calculation. Mutations aren't going to stop. They'll continue to pop up in Africa, India, South America, etc. In a global economy they will continue to make their way here. Like i said we'll all contract covid over time, it is just are you vaccinated or not (and likely what booster are you current on) and what strand is it when you contract.

huh? I'm not saying i dont trust nurses and doctors at all. I'm saying i trust numbers. CDC numbers. and then taking those numbers and making a risk reward decision based off of statistics vs. the counterweight of other consequences.

I'm saying my point is the original post is about objectivity. Being too close to a situation tends to lend itself to a skewed perspective. The point you're tying to make is that nurses see much worse stuff than mechanics. Those are two separate arguments. And I'm not saying anything contrary to your point. Yes, nurses seeing death everyday is worse than a brake job.

That's fine. You're nitpicking a post trying to make a point isn't very applicable to the overall argument. The argument is about objectivity. Not about what any certain industry sees on a day to day basis.

I would say that the numbers of those <18 requiring hospitalization have jumped from .27 per 100,000 in January 2021, or 2.7 visits per million to now .48 per 100,000 or 4.8 per a million. So it definitely is worse and more dangerous. I would also take away that still incredibly rare. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions I think 1 per million is probably too many, but in the same breath it's about 2-3X more dangerous than a bad flu season in terms of hospitalization. I would argue the response is generally more than 2-3X that of a regular flu year. I also think, why not do hybrid? If your a parent who is concerned (rightfully so) then you have the option to have your kid learn to attend school via zoom. You also have the option to send them to school with a mask. You also have the option to send them to school without a mask. It gives various options of protection while offering a learning environment. Maybe not the best solution, but also provides alternatives for individuals for the next 2-4 months until they give the approval to administer to those over 2 years old. Other side note: I'm sure your ER friends are seeing some terrible shit. no doubt there. I have friends in the medical community who express the same point of view. I would only counter saying that those individuals are a bit skewed right? So i work in finance, and i generally think the financial markets are teetering and horrible stuff is going to happen. Am i right? probably to extent, but also very wrong since it'll likely be okay. I'm just in the middle of it every day. Talk to a cop .... they'll have a skewed outlook on violence, drugs, etc. Talk to a mechanic and they'll have a view on why "they just don't make cars like they used to". Talk to a server about restaurant business ... they'll come away with a negative view. Truth is, those most involved don't have the luxury of being able to zoom out. They go to work and see another dying person each day. They say another child covid case. etc. Its also really tough to look at things objectively when it involves health and deaths. humans tend to be pretty irrational about death in general. So yes, it may be a little harsh to be critical on a topic like covid, but also it takes a little bit of that perspective because the US and World population is a big ship ... it's hard to turn big ships. You generally need to keep it moving forward, when you don't all sorts of consequences happen. so it's more a risk reward thing in my midn.

I'd say that's fair. It's not a right or wrong issue or trying to slam dunk on others. we're so caught up in this covid thing that I don't think enough people zoom out anymore. When you hear covid, covid, covid, covid, covid, covid every single day it's tough to take a step back. it's overwhelming. there are so many stats, so much information, so much more to learn, etc. End of the day it's math. It's science. everybody will get covid in some form. the only difference is vaccine or not. So then it becomes a choice for individuals are you comfortable with the consequences of what may happen after you get covid with or without a vaccine. And that's generally a personal choice. So after all kids have a chance to get the vaccine? All of a sudden masks will be dropped again and transmission will continue. in adults the chances of long haul covid are reduced by about half after this vaccine. kids? probably the same. Are you comfortable post vaccine for kids with no masks? if not, when are you comfortable with dropping masks? when are we comfortable addressing that if we're wearing masks it should be n95 and not spongebob cloth masks? if we're following the science, shouldn't we actually be following the science wholly? how do we end and transition back to normal life? mutations will continue. it's just how viruses work. the chance of long haul will continue to be there with or without a vaccine, so how do we take a next step? and what does that step look like?

Food for thought ... What if I told you that per CDC website, not me, not Fox News, not a university study ... per the CDC that approximately 600 kids 0-18 died of the flu in 2017? Then what if I told you that 444 kids have died of Covid in 2021 through 3 quarters. Extrapolate that number out one more quarter and you're sitting at exactly 600. Now think if in 2017 they made kids mask up, socially distance, and generally put fear into a whole generation of kids that year for the flu. Just saying. When you can't go anywhere for more than like 8 minutes without hearing the word Covid? It gets scary. But if you take facts, numbers, and take a few steps back? All of a sudden it's not so bad.

Makes me think may have been offered a game or two this season and declined. We've gone through some very weird combos this year. Can't say I've been a fan of many.

he will win an MVP and my guess during our next 2-4 year run. We already have the leg up of a winning team which helps with votes, but overall, yes like everybody is saying here he's a freak. If he can stay healthy, and if he is let loose on the base paths plus utilized at the 3-4-5 spot? easily can win a MVP. Just looking at it through the Hawk eye test? He makes Yoan and Eloy look pedestrian at times. Should be fun!

Not sure - i'm not going to be an expert on the roster gymnastics needed for him over the next month. is Ruiz/Wright an option to move one of those guys down for a Quintana? obviously doesn't matter hindsight. but i woulda been willing to move maybe one of those guys (not sure on options) to give Q a chance at the bullpen Per Mlbtraderumors.com below: Quintana has been rocked in the majority of his starts this season, but he holds a 3.93 ERA, a 28.6 percent strikeout rate and a tiny 3.9 percent walk rate in 18 1/3 frames as a reliever He’s sporting a 3.90 SIERA and career-best marks in strikeout percentage (28.7), swinging-strike rate (11.9 percent) and opponents’ chase rate (32.6 percent). His 45.6 percent ground-ball mark, meanwhile, is his best since back in 2015 with the White Sox.