The Wiz

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 06:40 PM) 2000 Durham 17 Charles Johnson 31 Thomas 43 Ordonez 32 C-Lee 24 Jose Valentin 25 Konerko 21 Herb Perry had 12 and Chris Singleton 11 2003 there were six over 18 homers. 2004 there were six over 21 (Uribe, Crede and Rowand were added...Thomas had 18) Charles Johnson was a mid-season acquisition though so only a fraction of those 31 were with the Sox. But he was awesome that year, he really was a good catcher back in the day, had a really solid career.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 11:22 AM) Yeah, people should have the right to go around calling people f*gs because sometimes gay people use that term. It's the same with rappers and the n-word. God damn PC police trying to ensure we can't belittle people different to us. Not the same situation at all and you know it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) Do you think they are raised to hate the police because of no reason, or for example, they grew up in the neighborhoods where policed tortured suspects to gain false confessions. There is a strong sentiment in this forum that police officers can be terrible at their jobs and terrorize people because they put their life at risk. I disagree. They are raised to hate the police because they are the organization trying to bring down the gangs. Maybe police brutality is used as propaganda for the gangs to turn young boys, but of course gangs want to protect their business by making the people who live in their area either hate the police or scared to talk to them. And the majority of police are good people. Just like the majority of blacks are good people, and the same goes for every race.

Agreed

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) I am quite aware how productive Dunn has been. He's been one of the most productive DHs in the AL against RHP. He's just a platoon partner. He's worth a C prospect. Teams have not offered anything because they assume the Sox will want to get Dunn out (which I'm sure they do) and will do anything to get him out, accepting virtually nothing. It's a bad precedent to set. So you work from a leverage standpoint. Not just for this year, but for the future. If teams just assume you'll eat all the salary and accept nothing back in terms of prospects, you have already lost that battle. If you show teams that you are willing to follow through and continue playing these guys, then they will be more aware moving forward and will be more willing to accomodate to your needs. It's also a respectful thing to do to a veteran player. I think he'll be gone by the 31st either way. I disagree with you, I think if there were teams that really were interested in Dunn and wanted to get him, it would have been done by now. If some team felt Dunn would make them better for the stretch run, they would have given up Jeff Soptic by now to acquire him, not play a two month long game of chicken with Rick Hahn to see if they can get for free instead of practically for nothing. And there's nothing disrespectful about DFA'ing someone in this situation. MLB is a business, and I think Dunn, every fan, and every player could understand why Dunn could get DFA'd, whether you agree with it or not.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) If police brutality (which is more than murder cases) were removed, community trust in police would probably help solve the crime rates. But, again, if police brutality is wrong, than people can object to it. I think we all agree police brutality is wrong... but sorry, St. Louis, you can't complain about police brutality and murdering of people until these people who are black in Detroit and Chicago solve their violence problem. Why? Because, they too are black, and so you are also black, and must answer for the violence of the predominantly black neighborhoods. You can't have the dessert of protesting police brutality until you eat your vegetables of solving crime. Want help? Just ask the police? Oh they are harassing you? Perhaps you should solve your communities crime! I don't plan on posting in this forum as I hate anything politics involved, but I saw this and just had to say I completely disagree with the sentiment and think you are wrong. The kids in those neighborhoods are raised to hate police, police brutality or not. People are strong armed by local gangs to not talk to the police or act as witnesses to crimes. I think you are really undervaluing how much power and influence gangs have on these neighborhoods. There are still plenty of professional athletes who came from areas with strong gang influences who are funneling money back to the gangs not because they want to but because they have to for the safety of them and their families. To say that police brutality (which is becoming fewer and fewer thanks to dash cams and such) is a major problem with crime, I'd say you are either naive or naturally have a bias against the police. But I agree, police brutality is wrong. But I hate when people use the actions of a few police officers to represent the whole group. Its no better than people who use the actions of a few black people to judge the whole group.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) Teams may be offering nothing and expecting the Sox to eat the salary. The Sox may say we will do one or the other, but not both. There is literally no point in DFA'ing Dunn. Whats the point in letting him get AB's in September other than hoping for a miracle run winning 90% of the games from here on out? And if teams are offering nothing and expecting the Sox to eat salary, it's likely because Adam Dunn hasn't been as productive as you feel he has been.

QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) I literally haven't said things like that since middle school, when I stopped, thought about it for a second, and realized how awful those things were to say. Ok, and that's fair enough. But to say times have changed, you obviously have never been in a locker room recently. There are people who are in their 20's saying much worse things than "they should wear skirts." And it's not just 1 or 2 people, it's a lot of people.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 15, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) This is not logical at all. Why would you DFA a guy who has actually been productive? Because the team is not competing for anything now and he's a free agent at the end of the year. And it's not like his production has been off the walls. If it was, some team would have traded for him by now.

The logical decision would be to DFA Dunn to open up room for Garcia to DH and just focus on hitting for the final month and week of the season. Let De Aza and Viciedo play for the final month to see if they can get hot and build some trade value/a reason to hang on to them for next year.

I believe the goal should be to maximize his talent and potential, not maximize the time until his arb. clock starts.

Only if the move was a minor one to a suburb just outside of Chicago

QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Aug 14, 2014 -> 07:39 PM) Anyone who doesn't understand why this was at the very least a stupid thing to say is painfully out of touch, clinging to a time when certain groups weren't empowered enough to call people on their bulls***. Your old road is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand... So you are saying you've never said someone was a "p**sy" or "f*g" or told someone to drop their balls or get their panties out of a bunch, or said something was "gay?" If you haven't, I find that extremely hard to believe. I'm not saying that saying any of that stuff is right or wrong, but people have the right to say what they want and I'd say the vast majority of people who say these things do them out of jest/anger/ some sort of emotion and never mean to offend or have anything against any of the group's they may have offended with saying it. It is just something that has gone on with males for thousands of years. And I think you are definitely wrong, nothing is changing, the only thing is changing is the forums in which you can actually say what you feel and think are changing. Go to any school yard today and listen to the conversation of a group of boys and compare it to one of 30 years ago. Boys are still making fun of other boys, kids are still getting made fun of for doing things like a girl, etc. What also hurts your argument is that these groups that we are told are suppossed to be offended by making comments like this use those very terms in jest all the time. It's not uncommon for a girl to tell a man to stop wearing a skirt or get your panties out of a bunch. Or for homosexual people to call things gay, and so forth. If things were really changing, these groups wouldn't use those phrases and such anymore. Most of the time it is some white guy telling us that those people should be offended.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 12:22 AM) Oh I hate the rule, and would have felt bad for Giants if he was called safe Technically, since buster was in front of the plate, it would have been legal for danks to have a collision at the plate, correct?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 12:03 AM) It sucks that Hahn is gonna have to likely overpay for a closer this offseason due to this group of relievers sucking and the injury to Jones I know it would have been nice to see what he had as closer, but I for one don't think Jones would have been the answer and think this bullpen could have still been awful with him in it. His control issues I think were still far from being solved

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:41 PM) I don't. We'd be without Sale, Rodon, and quite possibly Abreu. Posey alone is not better than those 2/3. I don't like how you brought up the domino effect, but what if it swung differently for the Sox and Poseys pressence on the 2010 team leads them to jump pass the twins and win the world series.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) I don't recall the year but I remember they were losing something like 10-0 after the first few innings against the Cubs. Wood or Prior hit Konerko in the head, he stayed in, and ended up hitting 2 homers. They ended up winning 15-11 I believe. That was 02 when he was probably the best player in baseball that first half... Unfortunately he was awful for the next year and a half

I know he flew out but that was a great ab by Posey... Oh how I wish he fell just a couple more spots back in 08

One guy who I was looking at who might be a solid option is Matt Holliday. The Cardinals need to find room for Piscotty, and Holliday is still a productive hitter even with a down season this year. Also, I think the goal is to compete in 2015, and adding someone with Holliday's age and postseason experience seems like it might be a good idea. Also, he can be used primarily as a DH here which might help slow down his aging process, but he isn't so bad defensively that he couldn't get 40-60 games out in LF to give this team more versatility and not be pigeon holed to sitting one of the best offensive players whenever they play in the NL. He is scheduled to make 17 million through 2016 with a team option for 17 mil in 2017, but its not like if he does age poorly we're stuck with him for 5 years. However, ideally any trade would involve John Danks going to St. Louis to offset salaries.

Personally, if his option isn't picked up which I'd say is around 50/50 right now, I think Billy Butler would be a great buy low candidate. I think playing half of his games at the K has really effected him. There's no doubt he's always been a great pure hitter, but with I think when his power numbers started to dip, he started to press and I think that is part of his struggles. You put Butler in the Cell playing half of his games, I think you could expect that HR power to jump back up to the 20's, if not closer to 30. However, while I do like Butler, I hate the idea of having a strict DH who is a clogger and liability in the field if he were to play the field.

I think the player they were looking at was Jason Castro. Flowers was just coming off of the absolutely brutal stretch he had, and it is noted in those leaked Astros trade talks that Hahn was extremely interested in Castro. Also, the Astros need to clear spots on their 40 man roster this offseason to protect some of their better prospects from getting snatched away in the rule V, so I could surely see how the Astros could be a willing trade partner.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 07:17 AM) Yes, you are. Why wouldn't managers want to know if optimizing their lineup could help them get significantly more out of their players? Excuse me, where did I say any of that? I was just saying it shouldn't take gigabytes of data to prove something as simple as good offensive players will score runs and bad ones won't.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 11:03 PM) That's reasonable enough. The problem from the legal perspective will be determining how much, and if, Stewart also will be deemed responsible for his actions or part in the death. From the evidence we've see, I don't think there is anyway you can prove without a doubt that he is guilty. Then again, who knows, there might be evidence we don't know about.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) The chance to dump Danks is long over. He's been pitching lousy for a month. Sox are stuck with him for 2 more years. Maybe the pen will work better. You can't dump him on anyone, but there is still the possibility of a bad contracts swap.

Honestly, I'm warming up to the idea of finding a new CF and moving Eaton to LF in a hope of him playing LF would help keep him healthier (less ground to cover means less running, tougher to run into walls face first in the corners as well). But to really justify it would require finding a CF who is as good or better than him defensively. Upton likely fits that category, but unless we were getting something else great back, the contract, him being one of the worst contact hitters in baseball, and his attitude/effort issues of his past really make me think the upside isn't worth the risk.