tray

Precisely what I had been thinking even before they signed Taylor. Not sure that a 3 player package of Kimbrel, Keuchel and Vaughn gets a deal for Lux and Bellinger done but I'd start there. Second base and RF solved in one deal. OK, pinch me, I was dreaming.

There are some forum addicted know-it-all posters that seemingly relish in oneupmanship. It is too bad that they dominate the forum at times and try to grind down and embarass posters for sport. Anyway, I respect all Sox fans including those who have different opinions. In fact, I like hearing different opinions which is why I read this forum. My own opinion is that signing Leury was a reasonable move. He provides flexibility for TLR to use him at various positions and against RH or LH pitching since he is a switch hitter. He has shown surprising power and while he has had injuries, he is relatively durable. I don't know this for a fact, but Leury must be an affable player that players and management respect and like having on the team.

You should remove the quotes pal.

LOL. So Bellinger or Vaughn. You would rather have Vaughn in RF?

Some fans think that is Vaughn's ceiling. Kimbrel plus Vaughn should bring back a player or two of intrerest, especially if NL adopts the DH and the Dodgers don't sign Jansen who is 34.

That's why I'd like to see him on the Sox babe.

Gamblers often double down on bad bets. If the Sox do not sign Semien they can still seek trade for a 2B or LH hitting RFer, Perhaps the Dodgers could be a trade partner for Lux and/or Cody Bellinger

Cauli gets a "loud" response.

You nailed it Two Gun Pete. You served the Nashville Hot Chicken Connoisseur a serving of cold turkey today. David Ross replaced Kimbrel as Closer midseason 2020. David Ross and Hoyer had lost confidence in him after a rocky 2020 season and again during Spring Training in 2021. Hahn gambled on the trade and lost. If this was a Free Agent acquisition that did not cost Madrigal and Heuer, it could be defended as a costly dice roll, but, like the trade for James Shields that cost Tatis Jr. it was beyond risky. Actually if was foolhardy, and it hurts, to wit: " In the end, there is really no debate no matter how you want to put it. The ‘set-up man’ of Craig Kimbrel should live in infamy of White Sox fans heads for a decent amount of time. It feels good to get a much needed win in a cross-town trade after, well you know, the Jose Quintana deal… " https://cubbiescrib.com/2021/10/16/chicago-cubs-undisputed-winners-craig-kimbrel-trade/ ouch. That hurts and will continue to as long as Madrigal and Heuer continue to contribute for the Cubs.

I never said "they blew that evaluation on Lynn" but they did blow it on Kimbrel champ. " I mean, it’s pretty obvious Kimbrel was going to collapse well before we acquired him. " LOL. Actually some predicted his decline. The Story Behind Craig Kimbrel's Sudden and Bizarre Decline You sound angry. Amirite? Are you angry?

Same analysis used by the same people when they traded Madrigal and Heuer for a guy with "shutdown sh1t." When will they ever learn, when will they e----ver-r learn?

A useful counterpoint even if taken as an unwelcome antidote to Steve Stone's promotion of Vaughn and mindless criticism of Eloy . Personally, I am tired of Stone's takes. Little things he does (like how he pronounces "E-Loy' ,") but generally, the back and forth with Benetti has gotten old. I always felt Stone woulds be better on the Northside of town. Maybe Ricketts should try to get him back now. I think a two year deal with another golden parachute might do it.

Well go ahead, buy into the hype with Vaughn but check back with yourself after next season and see if he lived up to it. I suspect he may become a slightly better than average hitter (.250-.270 BA with 20-25HR ) and that he will be deployed in a platoon role once again next season. Not that bad but maybe less than what I hear that some fans expect from him. I do not think Hahn can replace Vaughn's production in a trade, so he stays, at least for another year. And no, Hahn is not going to trade Eloy. Trade Eloy and replace him with Vaughn? My God what has gotten into some of you ? -

Kimbrel and ______ (you fill it in) from WSox for Phillies top 3 prospects. https://www.philliesnation.com/2021/09/phillies-nation-top-20-phillies-prospects-september-2021/ .

Racial preference in hiring and racism in general persist. I lived through the era of 100% racially segregated neighborhoods and public schools in Chicago when whites opposed and protested against affirmative action and school busing. Nothing much has changed since then. Justin Fields football helmet calls out to "End Racism." However, I doubt that happens for another 100 years or more. Maybe never. Yea, yea, the best person should be hired for the job and no one should get any special treatment regardless of race, slavery and racism ended with the Civil War, I am not a racist.... This straddles the line here between politics and baseball, but I think it is safe to say that whatever one's opinion is on minority hiring, no one, including Kenny Williams, is going to change your mind.

There you go again.

"Guys"? At least the opinions I post are my own, I try to support them, and don't feel the need to be validated by having others join in disagreement.

How about actually reading the post which, quite to to the contrary of your assertions, states that decisions should not be based on who likes or dislikes a player, but rather on objective measures (including those I listed). Vaughn has been hyped more than any prospect since Brian Anderson. This happens often with prospects like Mickey Moniak with the Phillies and Lux with the Dodgers. Sometimes prospects live up to the hype, other times they don't. So Vaughn is what he is, and that is not necessarily what some, including Steve Stone, want him to be. My opinion is that Abreu beats him out at 1B, Eloy beats him out in LF, and Sheets beats him out as DH. None of those decisions should have to do with whether one likes or dislike players. I admit that I have posted too frequently challenging contrary opinions about Vaughn, but it seemed to me that too many fans bought into into Steve Stone's hype about that guy. Maybe check back in a year or two here and let me know if Vaughn has hit more home runs than Eloy or has won a couple of gold gloves for his defense.

There is no way Vaughn is better than Eloy at anything other than playing deep in the outfield to keep everything in front of him and not taking risks diving for balls. Vaughn is a line drive hitter. He does not have the home run swing that Eloy has. Vaughn hit 15 HR in 417 ABs in his rookie season. Eloy hit twice as many - 31 HR in 468 ABs in 2019. Vaughn does not have the wingspan or reach that Eloy has - Vaughn is 5'11"-6'0" while Eloy is 6'4"=6'5". Vaughn is probably the slowest player on the White Sox....in the field and on the bases. He is a tank, and his heavy torso and large shoe size makes it obvious that he is never going to get any faster. Vaughn is a .235 hitter and the sample size was not small. (Eloy is a combined .270 over 3 seasons) . I understand that fans fall in love, so to speak, with certain prospects, but at some point it is probably useful to take the fan hat off and evaluate the stats and consider the speed and athleticism of a player. Vaughn is really limited in certain respects. Eloy has some intangibles than Vaughn lacks in terms of his relationships with core players and his infectious positive attitude. He is also a clutch hitter and a serial Cub killer. He also will not agree to be a full time DH, so forcing him to do that will complicate keeping him on the team. Vaughn vs Sheets? I think Sheets may have beaten Vaughn out for the DH spot after several clutch home runs toward the end of the season and the play-off HR against McCullers. Having said that, Vaughn probably stays as a platoon player in 2022 because I doubt any other team's GM will buy into Steve Stone's hype like some of our fellow fans have. Yea, Vaughn hit at every level you know... like Little League and Pony League) so he is going to be an elite hitter at the major league level. Oh my, he just caught another fly ball without being injured..and he is just a rookie that wasn't even supposed to play in the OF! Oh wow.

Vaughn probably sticks around for another season as a platoon player. If LaRussa continues to keep him on the bench against tougher RH starters, he should be able to inflate his numbers and add to his value.

I am projecting the number of home runs Sheets might hit primarily based on 2021 stats and also my own take on his swing and plate coverage. Jim Thome has to be given some credit for Sheets adjustments to major league pitching and his ability to hit home runs in clutch situations. I see some of Thome's style in Sheets swing and in his approach.

Home runs win games and burnish the credentials of players. Soler put himself on the map again with 48 HR is 2019 and once again with a few key HR in this year's playoffs. Vaughn could have increased his trade value as a DH if he hit more HR. 15 HR over 417 AB did not seem like much, especially after Sheets pounded 11 in just 160 AB. I think Sheets can possibly put up 30 HR if he is the full time DH next season. Quick bat and great plate coverage on outside pitches.

And a case could be made that with Vaughn's impressive 2021, he may be someone to stick with over Eloy for LF, and have Eloy be part of a win now trade. -------------------------------------------- Vaughn is better than Eloy? OK. I won't re litigate that other than to say that is a joke. "Win now?" That was the promise of the Kimbrel trade where Hahn gave up other core pieces for nothing. I don't trust Hahn's judgment when it comes to trading away any player or top prospect.

Sounds like the common LG freezer issue. Seriously, since Hahn got away with giving away Tatis Jr, Madrigal, Pilkington and Heuer for nothing, he isn't worried about making another disastrous trade.

Too many.