KMule2545

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) Definitely was not intended as a personal attack, was trying to be funny. Jb shuck is a AAAA player at best and exactly the kind of player that has no business taking the opportunity away from a younger, more talented player. Don't take so much offense man. We're all good I apologize, steve. Sorry for calling you a jagbag I realize it wasn't intended to be a personal attack against me. Our OF if Melky stays is what - Melky LF/Tilson CF/Avi RF/Liriano 4th with Coats/Engel/May as depth? Yeah...good chance we win 60 games or so unless everybody performs and Giolito/Lopez/Moncada all come up early and contribute big time.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Come on dude, if you didn't give a f*** you wouldn't have said anything in the first place. You like Shuck and you're not wrong for it but those that do not like Shuck aren't wrong either. It's a message board where people are free to express their opinion's. No. To be honest, yes I was being defensive. No, I was not being defensive for J.B. freaking Shuck. I was being defensive because I originally thought that steve was trying to come at me for sharing said information.

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Like this? Says the new guy who is furthering my point. "This".. "like this?"

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) You're expecting people to care about a player who has no business being on the roster in the first place. No. I don't give a f*** if anyone cares, to be completely honest. What I do give a f*** about is every time I sign on I see negativity/sarcasm rather than posters contributing anything of substance in threads - instead basically posting "ah who gives a s***, guy blows" or "what a loss". If you don't care, don't post.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) Good riddance to shuck. Was joking, didn't know he ment that much to you You weren't 'joking', you were being a sarcastic jagbag that didn't contribute anything to the thread. Yeah he means the world to me. I got 3 Shuck jer-tees, an autographed picture with me and him, and a Shuck White Sox signed jersey in my man cave. I was just throwing some White Sox news out there, ya know, considering he was on the MLB roster parts of the past 2 seasons.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) Huge loss. What a blow. If you're gonna be a sarcastic jagbag, why even bother to comment?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/twin...p;post-id=80796

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 11:07 AM) Not that I'm saying Danks was good post injury, but on what planet is a 3 fWAR or even a 1.7 fWAR season bad? I never said 3 WAR is bad. Obviously a 3.0 is pretty good. I used 2011 as part of it to show where he was at pre-injury. He got hurt in 2012, right? A 1.7 is not special. If you pitch near 200 innings with an under 5 ERA, you should get a 1.7 WAR as an SP. Add in those 4 other years of dogs*** performance and that's where John Danks was consistently trash since the surgery. The guy has averaged 0.5 WAR anually since 2012, including an otherworldly 1.7 WAR in 2015.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 07:23 AM) 2015 ERAs with Sox Jeff Samardzija: 4.96 John Danks: 4.71 I award one point to greg Because one bad year vs 6 bad years using one stat is a wonderful argument. 2015 fWAR: Samardzija: 2.6 Danks: 1.7 Danks career fWAR year by year: 2011: 3.0 2012: 0.3 2013: 0.2 2014: 0.5 2015: 1.7 2016: -0.1 No points for greg. It's an all-around s***y argument.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 07:56 PM) Danks never should have been DFA'ed. He was NOT our worst pitcher. If he's not hurt, he's definitely young enough to make a comeback especially if he becomes more of a crafty lefty. I LOVE John Danks and think he got the shaft with the Sox. Shields couldn't even last 3 innings without getting lit up. Danks was not even that bad. He should have been moved to long relief til he got his act together. Our bullpen has been horrific the last several years and he coulda joined that bullpen. ??? Were we watching the same player? Danks has been BAD for 6 straight years dude. As mentioned, ever since the injury he's been atrocious. Don't get me wrong, I hated the Shields trade and he is clearly on the downside of his career - but come on, you'd rather have Danks if money isn't a factor? Sure, Shields has been terrible the past 2 years, but he was an elite inning-eater SP previous to that for the majority of his career. Danks had one great year + 2 solid years in his career before gettting hurt. He tried to become a "crafty lefty" and f***ing couldn't to save his life. If he wasn't signed long term with JR being cheap he would have been DFAd in 2014. I loved John Danks the human just as you clearly did/do, but get your head out of your ass. He was consistently the worst pitcher I've seen in a White Sox uniform since 2011, maybe ever. Danks 2011-2016: 756 IP/ 4.79 ERA / 4.60 FIP / 85 ERA+ (15% below league average pitcher) / 818 H / 1.4 WHIP

This s*** is getting ridiculous. It's like 1/3rd of Sox fans want to be an under .500 team for the next 15 years. THEY'RE REBUILDING. Get over it already and stop making these threads and posts already. Read the damn GM and owner's comments the past 2 weeks.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) That's not necessarily how I remember it. Jon Gray was looked at as the first pick for a long while and Bryant was considered the safest player in the draft. I think if you change the first three picking teams that year you'd see a variety of outcomes. In essence, that draft was more of a preference thing rather than a slam dunk Bryce Harper type 1-1. I know I preferred both Gray and Bryant to Appel just because of the disparity in upside. Re-read my post as well as the post I was replying to raBBit You basically said the same thing I said except a different way. I said Appel WASN'T a slam dunk to go 1:1 (whereas Strasburg and Harper we're slam dunk 1:1 types).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) If they lost all the games, they might have wound up with Mark Appel instead of Kris Bryant. It goes both ways. Not really. Appel wasn't a slam dunk 1st overall pick in the mold of Strasburg or Harper - as recent examples. When you don't have that slam dunk 1:1 guy, it comes down to scouting and making the right choice. All indications from the outside were that the Cubs would take Gray or Appel over Bryant because they "needed pitchers". The Cubs chose the player they thought would be the most impactful in Bryant over Jon Gray. They picked right. I'm willing to bet they would have stuck to their guns and chose KB 1:1 if they had that 1st pick - just like they picked Schwarber 4th overall, about 10 picks before his projections.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) I promise you... the dawn is coming. Hahahaha yup.

Yes, I hope they lose 100 games in 2017 at the very least and wouldn't be disappointed to see the same thing happen in 2018 - although I doubt it will. The way I see it, it's part of the process when you're doing a total teardown/rebuild. What is the point of a rebuilding team having a middle of the pack pick in the draft? There is none. The darkness for a few years will bring bright light to the Southside.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/12/...spects-for-2017 John Sickels' take on the Astros farm for those interested.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 10:03 PM) Yeah, I was replying to the folks who are willing to make Tucker the centerpiece, not Martes along with Tucker as a complimentary piece. I'm not sure which poster(s) you're referring to, but Tucker would be a co-headliner coming back to us with Martes or Whitley. Not the only "centerpiece". I was simply stating the case for taking him on as one of the main pieces given that you are turned off by a prospects' age/inexperience in a deal for Q. K Tucker Martes or Whitley Reed or Teoscar Stubbs or one of their high ceiling 16-18 year old Latin signings

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) Yeah from listening to basically every podcast that mentioned white sox this week (it was awesome) it's clear that though national and baseball guys see Quintana as valuable, they do not see him on same level as Sale. But also all of those people were shocked a Moncada was traded. I think we will get more really good players and I'm hoping for 3 top 50 guys, but I just don't see any team in the hunt that will truly part with an elite hitting prospect in AAA ready to go. I see a possibility with Rodgers. I see a possibility with Tucker. The only place you could find something like that is Texas where you are taking profar + but I honestly don't think Texas has enough. I also say that even though this has limitations, I don't think things will improve that much. We have benefit of the first wave of rebuilding teams near championship contention and willing to deal and 2 wild card teams. Behind them are teams willing to deal with awful farms, and then rebuilding teams. I don't see too many more "on the rise" teams that would be willing to part so soon with talent. Get the best deal and get on with it. I have no doubt we'll get very good talent. Exactly. I have no doubt we will get an acceptable level of talent for Q, I just very much doubt it's going to be a guy ready to contribute in 2017 for the White Sox. If we do get anybody ready to contribute instantly it's going to be your Musgroves of the world and no hitters that are ready, IMO.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) So both major trades we've done, we received a top prospect back. That is still the asking price for Q as far as I am concerned. As far as getting honest with ourselves...it's been 5 days since we completed those trades. We've got all KINDS of time to keep lying to ourselves, if thats what you think this is. Yeah, I'm sorry but that's what I think this is. I never once said you won't get a top prospect back, but clearly our definitions of top prospect/elite talent are different. There's a difference between a team's top prospects, and BA/MLB/Fangraphs top 10/100 guys. We're definitely going to get a team's top prospects back for Q. You're straight up lying to yourself if you think we're going to get an MLB ready, elite hitting prospect along the lines of Benintendi/Bregman/Swanson etc for Q. You may well get someone as talented (Rodgers, Tucker), but you aren't going to get a hitter that talented + MLB ready - I'll bet you that right now. You like the current rankings so much - the Astros balked at a 3 player trade for Q that involved merely two top 50 guys (30-something and 49?) who aren't MLB ready and a mid rotation MLB ready guy in Musgrove. At best you're going to get two prospects ranked somewhere in the top 50 + other pieces for Q. We'll have fleeced a team if we get two top 50 guys + another top 100 guy or 2 for Q. He is perceived as the far lesser talent than Sale (even though numbers indicate he isn't).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 07:14 PM) Not on December 12, no. Let's give it a few more weeks. You gotta get honest with yourself man. 1 of those players were offered for Chris Sale, hitter-wise. Two including the Nats-Sale deal with Giolito that didn't go down (and he's a pitcher - much riskier for the acquiring team). With how teams value prospects these days, there is almost no chance of getting a MLB ready position player elite prospect for Q unless you want to do a 1-for-1 swag for Bregman or someone (which I personally do not - I prefer a depth deal with an equally talented but further along player like the guys we've mentioned). I'm not even sure the Astros would do a Bregman/Q 1-for-1.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) Yeah, but isn't there a pretty huge chasm between a guy that has done it at all levels and a guy who has done it in A-ball? To me, that chasm is the difference between the centerpiece and the secondary piece. No doubt. But those guys aren't in abundance/aren't being offered from the sounds of it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) Is Moncada really not any better than Tucker or Torres, in terms of prospects? Sure, current ranking place on top prospect lists, sure. Talent wise, I personally consider them all to be part of the same group of prospects who project to be future all stars. Moncada has already sniffed the Bigs and is near-MLB ready. Obviously he's going to be higher ranking-wise after proving himself at AA and reaching the Majors.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:25 PM) The headliner still equates to the majority of the value in the deal. I'm not trying to be argumentative...but stop and think what Q's value has been for the last 4 seasons. Now tell me what are the chances Torres ends up giving me that kind of value, projecting him as a 19 year old? MAYBE 25-30%? C'mon. A little closer to 50%. We're talking about some of the most talented 19 year olds in the world here. Torres just won the AFL MVP at age 19, which is nearly unheard of. Obviously there's going to be a lot of projection involved with these type of players but you can argue the payoff could be infinite. I agree in principle with what you're saying based on Q's contract/control/the current market. But we got 2 Torres/Tucker type talents and 2 other raw guys for Sale. There is 0 chance we're going to get 4 of those type of talents for the unheralded/off-brand Jose Quintana comparatively. No arguing, just friendly debates . We agree to disagree

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:18 PM) No, I would want 3 or 4 guys like Torres for Q. The Cubs traded him for half a season of Chapman, not four seasons of an outstanding SP. I said "as the headliner". Never said straight up.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 06:11 PM) I admittedly am still learning the differences between evaluating prospect talent and mlb regulars. That being said, at some point, potential, particularly with the attrition rate we're seeing for prospects, is not such a holy grail that I am moving my near-elite, rock solid, easy as it gets motion SP for the opportunity of HOPING that Kyle Tucker turns into a player as valuable as the one I am relinquishing. I'm sorry, but 19 year old kids that aren't already dominating a league wherein they are one of the younger players simply cannot be untouchable for a proven player with the value of Jose Quintana. This is just getting out of hand. The almighty Gleyber Torres put up a .270/.354/.421/.775 line in high A this year at age 19. You wouldn't take Gleyber Torres as a headliner for Q? Tucker put up a .285/.360/.438/.798 between A and high A in 2016 at age 19 with A LOT less strikeouts.