Soha

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 12:00 PM) Yeah and that was even before they traded for Eaton. They don't have quite as many bullets now. That said, if I'm the Sox - this would be a rare scenario where I would take a little bit less for Q or Robertson to get a deal done. Say the Sox gave up Quintana and Robertson for Robles + a few lottery tickets. What that immediately does is gives us 2 hitters with star potential in our system, with Robles and Moncada. It also makes the team significantly worse and thus, it drastically increases your chances of landing Seth Beer in the 2018 draft. And then we'd be flippin' loaded for the future if that all panned out.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 6, 2017 -> 11:26 AM) There is no scenario where the Sox get Robles outside of a Q-trade that involves a prospect swap. You know, that would be fine with me. Robles is > Meadows, Tucker, Glasnow or whoever else you can come up with as a headliner for Q. But reports back in December were the Nats didn't want Quintana.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Feb 5, 2017 -> 07:22 PM) What's the purpose of Levine writing such a definitive statement? If you listen to him with Ryan Dempster on Saturday (it's archived at the Score's website), he isn't so definitive about it.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 4, 2017 -> 06:42 PM) Keller is projected for an '18 debut and Whitley/Perez for '19. Is one year that big if a deal? Rebuilding is not just about building the next contender but a perennial contender for years to come. That means the Sox need to keep the young talent flowing upwards to the big League club. Another aspect to my desire for Whitley and/or Perez is taking pitching that is not as advanced as Martes and Paulino allows the Sox to target more advanced hitters in discussions with Houston. Just so happens that Houston prefers to keep its near ready pitching and have hitters available due to their backlog in the OF and 1B. Something along the lines of Tucker, Whitley, Fisher and Laureano. That's two top 50's, a top 100 and a flier which should put the package value somewhere between the Sale and Eaton trades. I would probably put that package at less than both the Sale and Eaton deals. But it's not bad, and I wouldn't consider it the end of the world if they took it. I like the idea of spreading out our pitching prospects. We're fast getting loaded with big arms that aren't far from Chicago.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 12:36 PM) Regarless of if it could be traded or not, why would the 75th pick in the draft interest anyone? Get a player that has been developed and can be projected far more accurately. And I am all for Reed. His stock has fallen, he isn't even expected to make their team, but last year he would have been a headliner. He might bust, but the payoff could be as huge as he is. Doesn't the pick come with an extra 800k you can spend on signing draft picks, which would make the extra 800k valuable, if not the 75th pick? Perhaps it might allow you to sign someone with the Sox 2nd round pick who dropped out of the first, but will want more than slot money?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 3, 2017 -> 09:02 AM) Agreed. I would not be pleased with that return for four years of Quintana Martes + Tucker is a must to headline any potential Q, but the next pieces would have to include a significant piece along the lines of Reed/Fisher/Paulino/Perez I like Laureano, but the offensive jet stream that is A Lancaster really inflates stats I don't think a Martes + Tucker + Laureano + 75th pick is a better package than Glasnow + Keller + Newman + Diaz (which I feel is still light) It probably isn't better than that Pirates package you listed, but I highly doubt the Bucs would throw both of their top pitching prospects in to one deal. You'd likely be looking at one of Glasnow or Keller, plus Newman, then plus whatever else. I personally have a preference of Tucker over Newman, which makes me lean towards preferring a deal with the Stros.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 11:21 PM) I missed that quote. Where is it? Suddenly, with a surplus of draft picks, the pain of giving up top prospects for Quintana or someone else could be eased. “We’re hoping that something will break,” Crane said. “It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that ... getting two picks from the Cardinals gives us more depth in the system. We’re still looking into it.

I don't think media leaks or posturing works when this Quintana trade stuff has been going on for over 2 months. At this point it probably just gets a yawn out of the Astros.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:48 AM) Things just might be heating up with the Astros. Phil Rogers says we have revisited traded talks with Houston. The Astros were just awarded two additional draft picks for the next draft. And finally, Bob Nightengale with the obvious Sox office front leak stating talks with divisional rival Texas are getting more serious. I'll continue to shout this, but a move prior to season start makes too much sense for both clubs. The AL West is going to be competitive and I'm not sure Houston can afford to wait to fill what appears to be a pretty big need. Meanwhile, moving Quintana before opening day greatly improves our tank efforts. I'm not sure what the holdup is here, but I'm getting more confident these teams will find a happy medium before opening day with Martes, Tucker, ++ coming back to the southside for Quintana. I think something is going to happen too. If you follow the Pirates blogger Rum Bunter, he's been saying for a while he KNOWS the Sox want to move Quintana before the season. Bruce Levine has hinted this as well. This all makes sense and comes together. They can't come out and say it, but they clearly want to tank for Beer or one of the high school phenoms scheduled for the 2018 draft, and having Quintana on the team doesn't help that cause. And they should prioritize the future draft pick with everything they do. In other words, don't hold out on 3 deals for that little bit extra, when it can cost you a lotta bit extra come the 2018 draft if we end up picking 6th instead of 1st or 2nd. There's no other ways to get guys like this, unless you get lucky with a slightly later pick. Prospects the caliber of Seth Beer or Kris Bryant or Kyle Schwarber just don't get traded. The Sox are probably learning that a bit as they have been rebuffed in trying to get guys like Meadows, Bregman or Torres this winter. So to conclude, I think Quintana does get moved and probably for what many of us will consider a slightly disappointing return. It feels like the Sox backed themselves in to a corner here and all of MLB knows it.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) Eh, this offseason is weird. Glasnow-Jimenez is a swap. Jones has significant value on his own. Oh I know Jones has big value. I'm looking at Jimenez as someone who could be one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in baseball, and it might not be very far away. He might be untradable soon, if that isn't the case already.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) Glasnow is ranked higher than Jimenez. If I'm doing Glasnow + Jones, I need Jimenez, Candelario and some interesting arm. The take I'm getting from all these off-season moves and rumors is that hitters are worth more than pitchers. That's why I figured we would have to throw in Jones to get Theo to consider.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:02 AM) If Hahn took that and flipped either Giolito/Glasnow for a guy like Rodgers/Frazier/Rutherford, I'd be happy. Speaking of the Cubs, now that's where you might get Theo to bite. He's already said they over-drafted hitters because they are worth more and they intended all along to trade some of the hitters for pitching. Maybe the Chapman trade finished that off....or maybe not? What if the Sox made that trade with Pittsburgh, then flipped Glasnow and Jones to the Cubs for Eloy Jimenez? Which side says no to that? The Cubs get a top notch reliever and a stud pitching prospect in the general range of where Jimenez is ranked.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 10:29 AM) Hypothetical trade proposal: Quintana and Reynaldo Lopez to the Cubs for Kyle Schwarber, Eloy Jiminez, Jeimer Candelario, lower-level 4th piece The Cubs have hitting to spare but are looking to shore up their pitching staff and depth. With the Sox, it's obviously the reverse. Schwarber is blocked by defensive limitations; Candelario is blocked by established all stars. Jiminez is one of the top OF prospects in the game. Would you do it? I would do that. The Cubs wouldn't though.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 23, 2017 -> 01:10 PM) Who cares about bats right now? We have the draft and an excess of pitching prospects to acquire bats. We also have 3 high draft picks before our competitive window and free agency to help out. Giolito Glasnow Kopech Lopez Keller Fulmer Hansen Burdi Rodon Jones Dunning Find who is expendable and get those bats. Aren't we finding out there's a premium for hitters? What makes you think they will be any more available a year or two from now than they are now? You don't have to go any further than Theo Epstein to show this. He specifically said they over-drafted bats/hitters, knowing they are more valuable trade chips than pitchers are, and that the plan all along was to eventually trade some for pitching. I think Quintana is our last big trade chip and we can't let it go without getting a big hitting prospect back. Especially given the Sox recent ineptness in drafting and developing hitters. That said we aren't getting Meadows and Bell for Q. I'd be thrilled with something along the lines of Meadows and Keller, plus 1 or 2 lottery tickets.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 06:26 PM) What about Keller, Bell and Newman? I would prefer this. Glasnow's control problems concern me as a headliner in any type of deal. At any rate, I don't think the Sox should move on any deal with the Pirates if Bell or Meadows isn't in it. According to reports they are untouchable.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 03:19 PM) The team is going to suck regardless, but right now as the roster stands, I don't see a chance at the 1st or 2nd pick. And something conveniently ignored by the "wait" crowd is how much more valuable those first few picks are from a historical perspective than other 1st rounders. Who here thinks the Cubs win the World Series last year without Kris Bryant? A guy like Seth Beer could have a similar kind of impact for us and trading Quintana would greatly improve our odds of drafting such a player. Again, I'm not suggesting taking a crap offer, but the decision to trade Q now or wait and hope for a better offer later better consider that opportunity cost. The decision should also consider what waiting does to our competitive window and the value of other assets. Rodon & Anderson are already up. Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, & Burdi should be up by June or July. That's a huge part of our core and the clock starts ticking this year. Pushing back a Quintana trade until the deadline will likely result in prospects further away from helping, which means it could be several years until they are productive major leaguers supplementing our existing core. That pushes back our competitive window and forces us to waste valuable seasons out of key assets while we're waiting for reinforcements to arrive. Just another opportunity cost that must be factored in when deciding whether to sell now or hold off in hopes for more down the road. Yeah I'm thinking along the the same lines. Is the little bit extra you get for Q now, worth the lotta bit less you probably get in the 2018 draft by waiting until the deadline to move him? We know how these drafts go. Sometimes you get potential superstars in the top few spots and then it falls off a cliff. And to be fair, sometimes it turns out to not matter. Though reports of the potential 2018 class shows it might matter quite a bit.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) Astros GM Jeff Luhnow: "I think the roster we have is probably the roster that we’re going to have to start the season.” https://twitter.com/jakemkaplan Posturing to the max. I believe it's true. Once this thing went in to the new year, it had been a month of back and forth with these teams, with little to nothing changing any variables. If they haven't done it now, then obviously the 2 sides aren't going to budge. I'm pretty confidant we're heading in to the season with Quintana as our #1. I'm fine with taking the risks involved, because it potentially opens up new suitors (like for example if one of the Cubs starters throws out his arm in spring training). The bummer for me is they haven't ripped this down anywhere near close enough to be in the Seth Beer sweepstakes. Frazier, Cabrera, Abreu...they're all still here and will help win many games this coming season. So it's more looking like a partial rebuild than a full rebuild, which is a little disappointing.

Quintana wouldn't be getting shopped if this wasn't a total rebuild. As said above, they can't admit they're trying to lose 105 games.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 01:03 PM) It doesn't really slow anything down that much. This team is going to suck this year. They are going to play awful defense. Most of the players we got aren't even going to contribute this year anyway. It might not take much. If the 2012 Cubs had won 3 more games, Kris Bryant would be a Colorado Rockie. Who knows if they still win the World Series.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) There are literally no other cost-controlled TOR starters available right now without serious question marks. We 100% control the market. To expect the same or better market conditions a year from now is crazy. There's a non-zero chance that someone gets desperate at the deadline and you potentially get a better offer, but you must value that incremental return on a probability-adjusted basis against your downside risk. For some reason, many posters here seem to think that as long as Hahn waits, someone will eventually meet his price, which is absolutely bonkers to me. What happens if Hahn holds his ground for another year or two before realizing he overplayed his hand? He will then have to cave and accept a much lesser return than he could have originally got this offseason because Quintana is now a less valuable asset due to less control. And a player's value can change significantly in a year. Look at what's happened to Sonny Gray. He'll need another four to six months of strong performance before teams consider paying a TOR starter price tag for him. God forbid Quintana gets injured and the amount of time it takes to re-establish his value is even longer. And let's not ignore that Quintana's value is directly tied to his years of control. Once he gets under three years IMO, he radically starts losing value. Again, assuming the Sox receive a strong offer, they'd be crazy not to accept in hopes of getting a perfect offer at the deadline or following offseason. One thing you don't seem to be accounting for - is that maybe the market is tapped of teams with high-end prospects who are willing to move them for pitching? Since the summer the Cubs, Indians, Nationals and Red Sox have all given up a ton for pitching. That market might be tapped right now. So even if the ideal circumstances to trade Q is better now than a year from now (which I agree with you on), you very well might have an easier time moving him them. New prospects develop, different teams have different needs...the deck gets shuffled and new players emerge. And yeah there's risk. There's also risk that prospects you acquire can be lost to injuries as well.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:47 PM) If we hold onto him, we just need teams like the Rockies, Astros, Pirates, Dodgers, and even the Yankees to play good the first 3-4 months and all of a sudden, his value is higher due to more teams being competitive and needing another starter (competitive teams are always looking for a starter). Heck, you might be able to get some of their rivals in discussions. The teams I listed are the teams I want to trade with the most. Not only those teams you mentioned. What if Lester or Arrieta throw out their arm in the 2nd start in April? Suddenly the Cubs are in desperation mode for a starter and might be willing to move Jimenez & Happ for Quintana. I'm all for waiting for the right deal....but if the right deal is here and now, pounce on it.

The only reason I'd want to push for a trade within the next few weeks is the 2018 draft. If the Sox go in to the season with Rodon as our #1 and huge question marks after that, they will have a chance at 100 losses. A chance at 100 losses gives them a crack at Seth Beer. I don't think this should be discounted, and even if you take very slightly less in a deal to get this ball rolling - it might be worth it in the longterm.

It's hard to know if Hahn is over-asking for a return on Quintana when we don't know what the real offers each way were. It might be a case where the market is tapped out on teams with high prospects who are willing to move them, and you have to wait it out (until the trading deadline for example) for the market to refresh itself. I agree that I wouldn't want Frazier as a headliner, nor would I want Glasnow as a headliner. That said, if it means we just aren't going to get a Meadows or Torres as a headliner - that doesn't necessarily end discussions. Well maybe with Pittsburgh it would, but maybe not Houston or Atlanta? I think the last line in that article is well put. At a certain point, probably very soon, you need to poop or get off the pot. Leaving Quintana in lingo this long might have an adverse effect on him going forward.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 12:00 AM) It seems like we've been reading this for months now. Yeah. At this point I would be surprised if a deal happens before spring training. These teams have had 5-6 weeks to go over this. If they haven't budged to the Sox liking in 5-6 weeks, I don't see it happening in the middle of January when nothing has changed to make them budge. I hope I'm wrong of course...

QUOTE (iWin4Ron @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 09:15 PM) I think Braves/Astros as the destination (I choose braves). I wish it would be the cubs or rockies. I put Astros as the likely destination. And I'm ok with that if it happens. Tucker > anything the Pirates have to offer unless they change their mind on Meadows, which I doubt. Most appealing I went with the Braves, because it's the least likely to be a pitching heavy package coming back.