They won't be any less dead if we start bombing North Korea. What exactly do you see in the track record of foreign interventionism that leads you to believe things will turn out well?

 

The track record of appeasement is spotless thankfully. *

Luckily no one has died from what has been done so far, or will die in the future... except for those few million dead Asians, but apparently they don't count.

200 pushups.

The track record of appeasement is spotless thankfully. *

250 pushups.

Bombing North Korea will not end well for North Koreans. You can't seem to acknowledge any of the negative effects of the thing you're advocating.

 

Not to mention the court of world opinion.

 

We had everyone's sympathy after 9/11. Now where would we be if we launched a pre-emptive attack on a sovereign country based on a report from one intelligence agency and a rah rah Nikki Haley speech at the UN?

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by caulfield12

Bombing North Korea will not end well for North Koreans. You can't seem to acknowledge any of the negative effects of the thing you're advocating.

That's the game he's playing which is why that's the exact amount of respect it's getting from now on from me - a game. He tells you how terrible things are right now and how bad appeasement is, but he will refuse to lay out the details or consequences of anything else. You will ask him how many people he's willing to kill and he will deflect the question. He gets to play the big man, pointing out all the flaws in everyone else's argument, but if all he does is sit back and say how bad everything is right now other than bombing, he doesn't have to defend all the people that would be vaporized that way. It's our fault for not figuring out how to put his bold vision of everything working well into practice.

The track record of appeasement is spotless thankfully. *

 

 

Because the North Korean threat is of the same order in terms of magnitude as Nazi Germany from 1933-1939?

 

Really.....?????

Nope. Negotiations where they keep their weapons but behave slightly better, or just do what we're doing right now. Anything else is fantasy.

 

I have to admit, Jenks's line about how we could magically assassinate their leader without any blowback or just hope that suddenly their population will decide to revolt against a several million person strong army (most of them have served in it btw) is still a useful comment. It shows how truly futile all these are. They're Hollywood imagination at its weakest. And that's still better than the "do something but I don't know what!" statements.

 

So yeah, 50 pushups.

No offense Balta, but you don't know s***. You may spend day after day reading countless internet articles to "educate" yourself on this issue, but the reality is you don't have the facts/intel that our government & military possesses and don't have a clue at the array of options that potentially exist. You are simply a rock scientist (or whatever your everyday profession is) who has too much time on his hands and way too big of an ego.

 

I don't need to know what the cure to cancer is to know it's a problem. And guess what, I don't need to know how to solve the North Korea issue to say it's huge f***ing problem that's reaching a boiling point due to a lack of action. That's for the experts who are paid to actually address these very real issues, not for online warriors like yourself to figure out.

Because the North Korean threat is of the same order in terms of magnitude as Nazi Germany from 1933-1939?

 

Really.....?????

 

Korean Lives Matter!

That's the game he's playing which is why that's the exact amount of respect it's getting from now on from me - a game. He tells you how terrible things are right now and how bad appeasement is, but he will refuse to lay out the details or consequences of anything else. You will ask him how many people he's willing to kill and he will deflect the question. He gets to play the big man, pointing out all the flaws in everyone else's argument, but if all he does is sit back and say how bad everything is right now other than bombing, he doesn't have to defend all the people that would be vaporized that way. It's our fault for not figuring out how to put his bold vision of everything working well into practice.

 

Rerun the presidential election today...see whose side the American people take when faced with the proverbial 3 a.m. in the morning phone call who is best equipped to handle a REAL world crisis question.

 

 

No offense Balta, but you don't know s***. You may spend day after day reading countless internet articles to "educate" yourself on this issue, but the reality is you don't have the facts/intel that our government & military possesses and don't have a clue at the array of options that potentially exist. You are simply a rock scientist (or whatever your everyday profession is) who has too much time on his hands and way too big of an ego.

I don't need to know what the cure to cancer is to know it's a problem. And guess what, I don't need to know how to solve the North Korea issue to say it's huge f***ing problem that's reaching a boiling point due to a lack of action. That's for the experts who are paid to actually address these very real issues, not for online warriors like yourself to figure out.

 

Really this is the answer, but it doesn't fit into partisan talking points so you will have to give an answer that does.

North Korea has zero interest in a nuclear first strike against the United States. They want that capability so that both China and the ya play nice with them, and they're dead set on getting it. They're very different from Iran in that regard.

 

If that goal is truly non negotiable for them, and that appears to be the case, the only possible solution is large scale military action likely resulting in mass death, a huge humanitarian and refugee crisis, and long term occupation. If the US unilaterally struck first with nuclear weapons, we're also probably looking at international sanctions and the world economy collapsing rapidly as a result. Conceivably military strikes probably not that drastic, but if it's unilateral it will be orders of magnitude worse than Iraq has been.

How do you know this?

Diplomacy has a much better track record, yeah. And I do at least recognize the risks which you can't seem to do.

 

 

Korean Lives Matter!

 

Instead of flippant, potentially racially insensitive (at best) statements, imagine you had three direct family members living in Seoul or Incheon and no way to get them out.

 

Would you still feel the same exact way in this scenario?

 

I think not.

How do you know this?

All of their rhetoric, their positions, their desire to not be dead.

You're right guys, that's brilliant. We should tell the experts to think of something. Why haven't we done that the last 20 years? That's my bad, I'll take the blame for that one. I'll go tell them right now and I'm sure this will only take a few minutes for them to iron out the details of something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm actually a little in awe of this response. It's basically "do the status quo but louder and make me feel better about it!!!"

How do you know this?

 

What is to be gained when the US has 22,000+ nuclear weapons to wipe the entire Korean Peninsula off the map...?

 

To make himself more heroic or a martyr standing up to oppose US imperialism?

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by caulfield12

It's being handled by top men.

 

All of their rhetoric, their positions, their desire to not be dead.

But the one guy calling the shots is a bit unpredictable. He may think nuking the US is a pretty big trophy he wouldn't mind taking with him on his way to meet his maker.

Instead of flippant, potentially racially insensitive (at best) statements, imagine you had three direct family members living in Seoul or Incheon and no way to get them out.

 

Would you still feel the same exact way in this scenario?

 

I think not.

 

You means the ones that ignore the genocide and self-induced famine deaths of millions? The ones that ignore that a crazy percentage of their population is currently being housed in concentration style re-education camps now?

 

I would love to see the conversation turn that direction... But instead we are left to pretending that this regime hasn't killed anyone, and isn't going to kill anyone as long as we let them have nuclear weapons peacefully.

 

If someone has direct family members in NK right now, the odds are already pretty solid that they are dead, dying of starvation, or in a government run concentration camp. No one seems to have a problem with that though.

You're right guys, that's brilliant. We should tell the experts to think of something. Why haven't we done that the last 20 years? That's my bad, I'll take the blame for that one. I'll go tell them right now and I'm sure this will only take a few minutes for them to iron out the details of something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm actually a little in awe of this response. It's basically "do the status quo but louder and make me feel better about it!!!"

 

 

Better yet, let's send Jared Kushner. He can solve any intractable, centuries long problem Jimmy Carter and Dennis Rodman couldn't. Perhaps Ivanka can just cut a deal to move her factories from mainland China to rural North Korea.

 

Or send both Stephen Miller and Jared, it would be like Ditka vs. a Hurricane.

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by caulfield12

Really this is the answer, but it doesn't fit into partisan talking points so you will have to give an answer that does.

 

It's not exactly a partisan issue, that's just your reflexive defense for evading everything.

You means the ones that ignore the genocide and self-induced famine deaths of millions? The ones that ignore that a crazy percentage of their population is currently being housed in concentration style re-education camps now?

 

I would love to see the conversation turn that direction... But instead we are left to pretending that this regime hasn't killed anyone, and isn't going to kill anyone as long as we let them have nuclear weapons peacefully.

 

If someone has direct family members in NK right now, the odds are already pretty solid that they are dead, dying of starvation, or in a government run concentration camp. No one seems to have a problem with that though.

Your preferred option of bombing these problems away had a long track record of making things worse.

 

How's your support for the Iraq war going these days?

If he doesn't plan on ever using them, of all people to taunt, Trump would be the last one on my list, considering his lack of mind and the toys he has to play with.

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

You means the ones that ignore the genocide and self-induced famine deaths of millions? The ones that ignore that a crazy percentage of their population is currently being housed in concentration style re-education camps now?

 

I would love to see the conversation turn that direction... But instead we are left to pretending that this regime hasn't killed anyone, and isn't going to kill anyone as long as we let them have nuclear weapons peacefully.

 

If someone has direct family members in NK right now, the odds are already pretty solid that they are dead, dying of starvation, or in a government run concentration camp. No one seems to have a problem with that though.

 

I recommend you read Suki Kim's book first before making such grandiose statements...

 

http://ideas.ted.com/what-i-learned-from-t...in-north-korea/

You means the ones that ignore the genocide and self-induced famine deaths of millions? The ones that ignore that a crazy percentage of their population is currently being housed in concentration style re-education camps now?

 

I would love to see the conversation turn that direction... But instead we are left to pretending that this regime hasn't killed anyone, and isn't going to kill anyone as long as we let them have nuclear weapons peacefully.

 

If someone has direct family members in NK right now, the odds are already pretty solid that they are dead, dying of starvation, or in a government run concentration camp. No one seems to have a problem with that though.

 

 

Nobody is pretending that. Stop lying. You can't make a point in this thread without lying and without obfuscating and without evading everyone else. It's cowardly and sad.