Cold Stove - Free Agents Still on the table

[Dick Allen]

Here's Cordell coming in pre-2017 at #12 in the Brewers system, found another list with him at #15. Here's Gillaspie at #5 in the Rays system coming into 2017. To fail to recognize what the White Sox did with these deals is pure naivety.

OK. That was coming into the season. Gillespie wasn't there anymore. Cordell was hurt and blocked, and will be 26 on opening day. That isn't like a 19 year old top 15 prospect.

 

Coming into 2017, Carson Fulmer was rated #5 on the White Sox, Hansen #9. At the trade deadline, who had more value?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

OK. That was coming into the season. Gillespie wasn't there anymore. Cordell was hurt and blocked, and will be 26 on opening day. That isn't like a 19 year old top 15 prospect.

 

Coming into 2017, Carson Fulmer was rated #5 on the White Sox, Hansen #9. At the trade deadline, who had more value?

So you're saying that Gillaspie and Cordell would have fallen in the 10-15 range had they qualified? Hmmm, so you agreed with me but you can't admit it because you need to pick a fight using an impossible to answer hypothetical.

 

Prove to me that a prospect in the 10-15 range at lower levels was never offered. That's the same thing you just demanded I do just back at you. Give me the list of names who were actually offered since you clearly insist I have that. Show me that no one at that level was ever offered. You asked it of me so you clearly must be able to do it yourself, otherwise you're just picking a fight.

[Dick Allen]

So you're saying that Gillaspie and Cordell would have fallen in the 10-15 range had they qualified? Hmmm, so you agreed with me but you can't admit it because you need to pick a fight using an impossible to answer hypothetical.

 

Prove to me that a prospect in the 10-15 range at lower levels was never offered. That's the same thing you just demanded I do just back at you. Give me the list of names who were actually offered since you clearly insist I have that. Show me that no one at that level was ever offered. You asked it of me so you clearly must be able to do it yourself, otherwise you're just picking a fight.

No I don't.

 

For the love of God, you said much younger guys in the same range were available to the White Sox. I am pointing out that is very debatable. And, as usual, you can't deal with any possible way you may be wrong. You are the one who needs to show names. You are the one who said these younger guys were available but the White Sox chose a different route.

 

If you were running a team, and you had a 25 year old and a 19 year old rated about the same and you had to trade one, which one would you trade?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

No I don't.

 

For the love of God, you said much younger guys in the same range were available to the White Sox. I am pointing out that is very debatable. And, as usual, you can't deal with any possible way you may be wrong. You are the one who needs to show names. You are the one who said these younger guys were available but the White Sox chose a different route.

 

If you were running a team, and you had a 25 year old and a 19 year old rated about the same and you had to trade one, which one would you trade?

No I did not. You altered the meaning of my words. I said "could have targeted". You changed that to "were available" to imply that I had some list so that you could pick the fight.

[Balta1701]

One other thing I think that is being missed is that the White Sox had opportunities last year to add guys who would probably have fallen in that 10-15 range, in deals like the Swarzak and Jennings deals. If the White Sox had wanted to get them, they could have targeted guys at the lower levels of the minors, guys who were picked in the 2nd or 3rd rounds the last 2 years, and those guys would have filled in that 10-15 range.

 

Had opportunities. Again, how about some names.

I'm through with this game it's making us all dumber and you're going to make me suspend myself if I keep typing.

[Dick Allen]

I'm through with this game it's making us all dumber and you're going to make me suspend myself if I keep typing.

Your quote:

They explicitly chose to do something else

 

That tells me you know for a fact they had other opportunities.

[caulfield12]

Well, Sheets, Gonzalez, Adolfo, Stephens and Burdi are all in that vicinity as prospects...some higher, some lower.

 

Pretty hard to make any conclusive statements because of the ast differences in the systems.

 

The guys we got from the Royals for Cabrera were in the 10-20 range for them (Puckett and Davis) but might not even be Top 30 now for us.

 

Or compare those two with Clarkin and Polo, who some have in our mid teens.

[bmags]

It would be interesting to hear what it really means for our 15-30 to be weak (and I don't disagree with this, compared to pads/braves/etc).

 

I actually think that group has a good chance to have some MLB productivity compared to others. I also don't know if i have a list, but that 15-30 will contain players such as Cordell, Tilson, Fisher, Call, Zevala, Clarkin, Burdi, Burr, Thiera.

 

What sticks out: they are old and nearer their ceilings.

 

And to me the difference is the other 15-30s have players more like Luis Curbelo and Adolfo that are young and raw but expected to ascend and be the next top 10. "Deeper". The white sox have one huge glut of age groups moving in at once.

 

So that's my interpretation would like to hear others.

[Chicago White Sox]

It would be interesting to hear what it really means for our 15-30 to be weak (and I don't disagree with this, compared to pads/braves/etc).

 

I actually think that group has a good chance to have some MLB productivity compared to others. I also don't know if i have a list, but that 15-30 will contain players such as Cordell, Tilson, Fisher, Call, Zevala, Clarkin, Burdi, Burr, Thiera.

 

What sticks out: they are old and nearer their ceilings.

 

And to me the difference is the other 15-30s have players more like Luis Curbelo and Adolfo that are young and raw but expected to ascend and be the next top 10. "Deeper". The white sox have one huge glut of age groups moving in at once.

 

So that's my interpretation would like to hear others.

I think you hit it on the head. I wouldn't call our 16 to 30 weak, but I would definitely say it lacks the upside that other high end systems have. I think the two biggest factors driving that is our general reluctance to draft high school kids and not seeing a ton of progress (so far) with our LatAm signings. If you follow our minor league system closely, our lower level full season clubs are routinely filled with college draft picks that are probably a year or two or old simply because we don't have enough young guys pushing for those roles. To your point, we need more guys like Luis Curbelo & Amado Nunez in the system, where if everything suddenly clicks (even if that's unlikely) you have top 100 prospect upside.

[he gone.]

Reports are saying JD offer from the BoSox is 5years and $100mm.

I realize this won't go over well on the board, but if that's all it took? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Trade a few prospects (Burger, Cease, Anderson) for Yelich and let's roll. I'd rather do this now than wait for maybe Machado and end up wth Donaldson or something. If can get two guys like Martinez and Yelich for like $32mm combined in the door? And a sure thing? And it costs just a few prospects?

 

I'd roll those dice over Machado all day.

 

Yelich

Moncada

JD Martinez

Abreu

Garcia

Nicky D at DH

Nunez 1-2 year deal.

Castillo

Yolmer

 

Within no time you have Eloy up, move rotate JD at OF/1B/DH. Your OF is now set with Yelich and Eloy. You have power. And you still have a bunch of arms that are just on the verge of competing consistently in the MLB. (Kopech, Hansen, Gio, Lopez)

 

You have to plug a few holes moving forward... SS, 3B.. but that's it. It's also not mortgaging the future as one could consider $20mm for JD "affordable" and Yelich at under $14mm "affordable".

 

I realize being paitent is key.. I get that.. I also have watched enough from the FO of the Sox where I don't see them hitting a homerun as necessary when push comes to shove. If this is an opportunity I'd take it.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Reports are saying JD offer from the BoSox is 5years and $100mm.

I realize this won't go over well on the board, but if that's all it took? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Trade a few prospects (Burger, Cease, Anderson) for Yelich and let's roll. I'd rather do this now than wait for maybe Machado and end up wth Donaldson or something. If can get two guys like Martinez and Yelich for like $32mm combined in the door? And a sure thing? And it costs just a few prospects?

 

I'd roll those dice over Machado all day.

 

Yelich

Moncada

JD Martinez

Abreu

Garcia

Nicky D at DH

Nunez 1-2 year deal.

Castillo

Yolmer

 

Within no time you have Eloy up, move rotate JD at OF/1B/DH. Your OF is now set with Yelich and Eloy. You have power. And you still have a bunch of arms that are just on the verge of competing consistently in the MLB. (Kopech, Hansen, Gio, Lopez)

 

You have to plug a few holes moving forward... SS, 3B.. but that's it. It's also not mortgaging the future as one could consider $20mm for JD "affordable" and Yelich at under $14mm "affordable".

 

I realize being paitent is key.. I get that.. I also have watched enough from the FO of the Sox where I don't see them hitting a homerun as necessary when push comes to shove. If this is an opportunity I'd take it.

I think you can sign Martinez without compromising the future. Giving up what it would take for Yelich is counter-productive at this point. Anything involving Jimenez, Kopech, Robert, or Hansen just doesn't make sense this early in the rebuild and I'm certain the Marlins would want one of them as the headliner plus a bunch more.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[he gone.]

Yeah, that's not happening for Yelich.

 

I'm just repeating what I heard on a podcast with Our Chuck Garfien. I think it's low too as well. But the Marlins have really painted themselves into a corner. Look at the return they got on Ozuna. Very meh.

 

Besides the point though.. we are not GM's and we don't know the trade value. The premise is if you can acquire both at that general price.. $20mm and 3 prospects would you do it? I am on board.

 

My thought process is such:

 

Although you may be able to find a diamond in the rough aka JD Martinez with the Tigers through Tilson, Gilaspie, Davidson, Cordell, Yolmer, Nicky D etc. etc. through letting those guys play every day in the MLB I think we can safely assume that the best those guys will be MLB depth at best on a championship caliber team.

 

what you do know is that Yelich and JD are already there. I don't mind taking playing time away from those guys if you bring in two guys like JD and Yelich.

 

Also it's not an overbearing contract at $20mm and 5 years.

 

Finally one could make the point that Eloy, Kopech and Hansen are being held back for Super 2 reasons.. not saying they are completely ready. However if we were the All-In Sox of the past I think you might have seen Kopech already up.

My point is I'd take the for sure players in the door over waiting a year and MAYBE executing.

[he gone.]

Edit to my above.. I wouldn't include Kopech, Hansen, Robert, Eloy.

But you can take any other 3.

 

I'd give up 3 of Rutherford, Anderson, Cease, Burger, Collins, Dunning, Lopez, Giolito, Burdi. (In some combo, but not all. Wouldn't give up Lopez, Gio and Cease)

[Balta1701]

Edit to my above.. I wouldn't include Kopech, Hansen, Robert, Eloy.

But you can take any other 3.

 

I'd give up 3 of Rutherford, Anderson, Cease, Burger, Collins, Dunning, Lopez, Giolito, Burdi. (In some combo, but not all. Wouldn't give up Lopez, Gio and Cease)

The Marlins should easily be able to get better offers for him from the rest of the league.

[iamshack]

The Marlins should easily be able to get better offers for him from the rest of the league.

I don’t doubt that the Marlins could do better, but I think you guys are exaggerating a bit how far off that offer may be.

 

Not sure how many teams even have the ability, yet alone the stomach, to better that offer by much.

[he gone.]

I don’t doubt that the Marlins could do better, but I think you guys are exaggerating a bit how far off that offer may be.

 

Not sure how many teams even have the ability, yet alone the stomach, to better that offer by much.

 

That's the thing. I don't necessarily condone getting aggressive a year early, however a)look at the return they've gotten for both Stanton and Ozuna (realize Stanton had a massive contract).

 

They've showed their hand and are almost pot committed at this point. I think they'd want a MLB ready player (Lopez, Anderson, Gio) and then a few prospects. I am okay with this personally.

 

I know the comparison is the Eaton deal since they are so similar in age, how they play, etc. However I think it goes without saying that Hahn got a hell of a deal there.

[bmags]

I think Anderson, Burger and cease would get it done to be quite honest.

[bmags]

I think Yelich is on the White Sox yesterday if that were the case.

 

Maybe so. But this market has been just so dumb, and I could see them being attracted to some on the field talent right away.

[caulfield12]

If you were dealing Anderson, you’d have to play Leury there or sign Andrus, too...

[Balta1701]

If you were dealing Anderson, you’d have to play Leury there or sign Andrus, too...

You could play Sanchez at SS and Davidson at 3b in 2018 with the long term goal of still signing Machado.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think Anderson, Burger and cease would get it done to be quite honest.

See, that's probably the most I'd consider giving up right now. I hate the idea of selling low on Anderson, but Yelich is a special player.

 

If we did such a move, who would play SS? Sanchez? Would they consider moving Leury there temporarily? The problem with trading Anderson is we don't have as much IF depth as some people would like to believe. We'd pretty much have to add a SS or 3B in free agency in 2019, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but does put some pressure on us to fill a need in order to be competitive.

[bmags]

What did you all think Rondon was for?!

[he gone.]

What did you all think Rondon was for?!

 

hahah. yes...

but for real. if you have the following offensive talents .... Abreu, JD Martinez, Yelich, (Garcia at some level of last year), (Moncada and Eloy playing to a solid chunk of their potential).. then I'm not sure you need more than a Defensive SS and some kind of something at 3B (Nunez/Davidson/Frazier??) etc.

 

 

[he gone.]

Also one more point to make before I jump on the train. I am just throwing this out there as a hypothetical because both seem like they can be acquired for less than fair market value and would have 5 service years attached.

 

I realize the bullpen is a mess. That we still have Shields and MiGo in the rotation. That Eloy isn't ready. Moncada probably isn't ready. etc.

 

I just look at the Twins. Not bad if you can pick up a few guys, build a winning culture this year. I think that goes a way in selling a FA next year too.

[GreenSox]

That's another reason to keep Sanchez..not that they will deal Anderson, but in case his plate discipline and overall hitting doesn't improve.

 

I agree that the Sox are light in prospects after the top 15 or so; but I think they really are beyond the point where they should buy many flip candidates....they need to start building the young players. They need to develop their farm through their own drafting and development.

 

Not particularly interested in trading for Yelich... it's a year early and he's a good player, not a great player.

Edited January 18, 2018 by GreenSox