6 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

The players are probably going to push on service time in the new CBA. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the NFL's RFA system instituted, where arb eligible players at some point during their arb get to shop their services on the open market with the team with rights getting RoFR.

That's a good prediction. 

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's important to reward young players for success.  I'd have a hard time explaining to Eloy that he can't come up because of something that might happen 7 years from now.  I'd be worried about pissing him off, frankly.

Didn't that very thing happen with Kris Bryant? Didn't he file a grievance against the Cubs for this very thing?

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's important to reward young players for success.  I'd have a hard time explaining to Eloy that he can't come up because of something that might happen 7 years from now.  I'd be worried about pissing him off, frankly.

And what are the repercussions of pissing him off?  Pretty much none. Maybe he won't re sign 7 years from now, but if he's as good as we hope, then he probably wouldn't anyway, yet provided 6 years of dominance for the Sox. He cant hold out or stop playing.

Unless he hits .500 at AAA,  its justified to wait.  The Cubs did the same with Bryant,  they filed a grievance,  it disappeared like a fart in the wind.  ( Shawshank)

It sucks for the players that's what the rules are, but that's another discussion. 

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's important to reward young players for success.  I'd have a hard time explaining to Eloy that he can't come up because of something that might happen 7 years from now.  I'd be worried about pissing him off, frankly.

Eloy started off the first few weeks in Charlotte with an .825ish OPS and then he got hurt. I have no problem leaving him there for a couple more weeks. That would have been my original statement to these guys - they come up when they dominate the league completely. Eloy's getting there, but he hasn't crossed my line yet.

6 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Agree.  But Tilson?  Cordell sure.  But tilson?

Since you asked, TBH, if Cordell were healthy, I'd prefer him to Engel.

But, given who is available NOW, I prefer Tilson to Engel. My view is less about being a Tilson fan, than it is having seen enough of Engel. 

 

On a "micro level," Engel v. Tilson is a minor event. Trivial, even. But, on the "macro level," in terms of managing the AAAA assets, I believe its well past time to give Tilson a full look. And by "full look," I don't even believe that 610 PA would be required. Get him to ~400 PA or so, and see where he is.  He was cromulent after having been away from the game for ~1 1/2 years, maybe he improves and can be part of a package for other assets. Or, more likely, he's as bad as Engel.

We simply don't know after 120 PA that came after a protracted injury absence. Let's find out what  he and other AAAA types are/aren't, BEYOND Engel. We already know what Engel is, IMO.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by Two-Gun Pete

6 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

And what are the repercussions of pissing him off?  Pretty much none. Maybe he won't re sign 7 years from now, but if he's as good as we hope, then he probably wouldn't anyway, yet provided 6 years of dominance for the Sox. He cant hold out or stop playing.

Unless he hits .500 at AAA,  its justified to wait.  The Cubs did the same with Bryant,  they filed a grievance,  it disappeared like a fart in the wind.  ( Shawshank)

It sucks for the players that's what the rules are, but that's another discussion. 

Obviously, you don't feel the players have emotions. You can bet Bryant was angered by the tactics. It remains to be seen if there are repercussions. For all you know the repruccsiobs are he will never resign with the team. Is it worth the chance that he won't sign with the team to gain an extra year of control.

24 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Obviously, you don't feel the players have emotions. You can bet Bryant was angered by the tactics. It remains to be seen if there are repercussions. For all you know the repruccsiobs are he will never resign with the team. Is it worth the chance that he won't sign with the team to gain an extra year of control.

I also wonder if other players (free agents) look at the tactics of management as well when making negotiations with other players, and if that is a big deciding factor for who they play for.

31 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Obviously, you don't feel the players have emotions. You can bet Bryant was angered by the tactics. It remains to be seen if there are repercussions. For all you know the repruccsiobs are he will never resign with the team. Is it worth the chance that he won't sign with the team to gain an extra year of control.

You don't feel the players care about money. When he hits free agency, he is gonna take the biggest deal. It's his one and only chance to sign a massive deal. If the Cubs offer him more than any other team, he will not pass them up because of the service team issue that happened 7 years ago. 

11 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

You don't feel the players care about money. When he hits free agency, he is gonna take the biggest deal. It's his one and only chance to sign a massive deal. If the Cubs offer him more than any other team, he will not pass them up because of the service team issue that happened 7 years ago. 

I don't know. I can't think of another case where the team so blatantly kept the player from free agency. It may be worth him leaving depending on the offer of course. I don't think he would leave 50 million on the table but I doubt the Cubs will be 50 million over the next offer. It may be worth 10 million on a 300 million deal.

The point is are you willing to take that chance?

1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said:

You don't feel the players care about money. When he hits free agency, he is gonna take the biggest deal. It's his one and only chance to sign a massive deal. If the Cubs offer him more than any other team, he will not pass them up because of the service team issue that happened 7 years ago. 

Apparently, not all players reach for every last dollar. Here is part of an article about Jimenez.

Sammy Sosa is actually part of why Jimenez signed for $2.8 million with the Cubs, passing up higher bonus offers from the Astros and Rangers. The Cubs were his favorite team because of all the Dominican players who starred at Wrigley Field.

I don’t see Delmonico in the Charlotte lineup tonight. Most likely getting called up 

14 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said:

And what are the repercussions of pissing him off?  Pretty much none. Maybe he won't re sign 7 years from now, but if he's as good as we hope, then he probably wouldn't anyway, yet provided 6 years of dominance for the Sox. He cant hold out or stop playing.

Unless he hits .500 at AAA,  its justified to wait.  The Cubs did the same with Bryant,  they filed a grievance,  it disappeared like a fart in the wind.  ( Shawshank)

It sucks for the players that's what the rules are, but that's another discussion. 

+1.

The last thing you want to do is delay their development. If you're talking about a couple weeks like with Bryant, then who cares. But while you want to pay him less and keep him longer, you also want to compete sooner. You don't know how long he'll need to play in MLB before he's going to play good. Avisail Garcia needed about 300 games before he was ready.

If Eloy posts something like an .800 OPS in AAA the rest of the year, we'll feel okay not promoting him yet. But it will also leave us in a situation where half the board wants to delay his call-up next year until the Super 2 deadline or maybe just punt the whole year.

Eloy and Kopech will have all of 2019 (minus 2-3 weeks) to get their feet wet at the big league level.  The Sox aren't competing for anything next season other than maybe trying to be a .500ish team.  The whole "lets get them up here for fan excitement and developmental reasons" is silly, IMO.  Just do this thing the right way from the long term betterment of the organization.  

59 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Eloy and Kopech will have all of 2019 (minus 2-3 weeks) to get their feet wet at the big league level.  The Sox aren't competing for anything next season other than maybe trying to be a .500ish team.  The whole "lets get them up here for fan excitement and developmental reasons" is silly, IMO.  Just do this thing the right way from the long term betterment of the organization.  

By the time you factor in September and April, that is two MONTHS being not used.

They’ll both be up 9 months from now. Nine months is nothing. Kopech will be a couple weeks from 23. Jimenez will be 22. Finish the season out in Charlotte, play the roster game at the start of another playoff-less 2019 season, and let them be true rookies around April 15th to get the extra year. To me, it’s common sense.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by flavum

10 minutes ago, flavum said:

They’ll both be up 9 months from now. Nine months is nothing. Kopech will a couple weeks from 23. Jimenez will be 22. Finish the season out in Charlotte, play the roster game at the start of another playoff-less 2019 season, and let them be true rookies around April 15th to get the extra year. To me, it’s common sense.

It’s common sense, but I just feel like they won’t do it.  I really think Kopech will be up in a few weeks if he has a couple more dominant starts.

15 hours ago, elrockinMT said:

I don’t see Delmonico in the Charlotte lineup tonight. Most likely getting called up 

I see that Avisail is eligible to come off the DL. I change my opinion and I think he gets activated for tonight’s game 

1 minute ago, elrockinMT said:

I see that Avisail is eligible to come off the DL. I change my opinion and I think he gets activated for tonight’s game 

Delmonico was not with the team in Charlotte the past couple of days.  He is the one coming up.

Engel should of been sent down before Tilson.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Delmonico was not with the team in Charlotte the past couple of days.  He is the one coming up.

You are right. I was just practicing to be a baseball beat writer LOL 

On 7/19/2018 at 3:43 PM, southsider2k5 said:

He is a prototypical 4th OF from the old days.  He isn't going to hurt you, but he isn't going to help you much either.  The choice between he and Engel is practically meaningless, as they both will be out of jobs as soon as the real players start showing up.

It reminds me of my two Baltimore Raven fan friends. They used to get into deep arguments over who was better Kyle Boller or Anthony Wright.

I had some hope for Tilson after last season but honestly he never deserved a shot with what he was doing in the ML this year to begin with. Just when our OF gets healthy Garcia need to go back to CF. At least he'll give you .700 OPS with mediocre defense.