26 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Everything. You don't make that trade unless you know you have a keeper at QB. In my mind, you don't  have one unless you're winning because of who is under center.  QB play is very black and white to me. Either you're winning because of who you have at QB, or you're winning in spite of who you have at QB. There is no gray area there. Either you have one, you know it, or you don't and you should be looking. Most GMs are only allowed to pick 1 QB. Either they pick the next HOF guy or they lose their job. It is getting to the point that even a great defense can't overcome shoddy QB play. 

One of the top pass rushers in the league will help them do this.

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

One of the top pass rushers in the league will help them do this.

Well sure, for a year or two. 

Go look at the teams that are annual playoff participants and tell me what they all have in common. Go look at teams that make the playoffs 7+ times in a 10 year span and tell me what they have in common. Hint: it has nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Well sure, for a year or two. 

Go look at the teams that are annual playoff participants and tell me what they all have in common. 

Defenses go further than offenses.

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Defenses go further than offenses.

The reality is to win a title you need both, but you have to have a guy who can score against a good defense or they'll get beat. Ask the Jaguars how having a top 3 defense, and a 17 point lead at halftime worked for them in the AFCCG. Great quarterbacking is the ultimate trump card. The 80s Bears had a long stretch of having one of the great defensive groups of all time. Every time they played Montana and the Niners in the playoffs they lost. That should tell you all you need to know about them. In 1985, Montana got hurt and the Niners missed the playoffs. I'm convinced the Bears are still without a Super Bowl had that not happened. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The reality is to win a title you need both, but you have to have a guy who can score against a good defense or they'll get beat. Ask the Jaguars how having a top 3 defense, and a 17 point lead at halftime worked for them in the AFCCG. Great quarterbacking is the ultimate trump card. The 80s Bears had a long stretch of having one of the great defensive groups of all time. Every time they played Montana and the Niners in the playoffs they lost. That should tell you all you need to know about them. In 1985, Montana got hurt and the Niners missed the playoffs. I'm convinced the Bears are still without a Super Bowl had that not happened. 

You just said great quarterbacking and the 80s Bears in the same post.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You just said great quarterbacking and the 80s Bears in the same post.

Said great quarterbacking was Joe Montana kicking the 80s Bears ass. All time QB vs All time Defensive group. Montana 3, Bears Defense 0.  

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

Man after yesterday I thought Steelers might take it to them. What a week for teams that came in underperforming

20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The reality is to win a title you need both, but you have to have a guy who can score against a good defense or they'll get beat. Ask the Jaguars how having a top 3 defense, and a 17 point lead at halftime worked for them in the AFCCG. Great quarterbacking is the ultimate trump card. The 80s Bears had a long stretch of having one of the great defensive groups of all time. Every time they played Montana and the Niners in the playoffs they lost. That should tell you all you need to know about them. In 1985, Montana got hurt and the Niners missed the playoffs. I'm convinced the Bears are still without a Super Bowl had that not happened. 

Every time they played San Francisco in the playoffs?  That one whole time?

love how you changed this post from “every time they played the 49ers they lost” to “every time in the playoffs”

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Said great quarterbacking was Joe Montana kicking the 80s Bears ass. All time QB vs All time Defensive group. Montana 3, Bears Defense 0.  

And the Bears have been to the Super Bowl twice without it.

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Every time they played San Francisco in the playoffs?  That one whole time?

love how you changed this post from “every time they played the 49ers they lost” to “every time in the playoffs”

They played them in 84, 88 and 89 and lost all three times. 

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And the Bears have been to the Super Bowl twice without it.

Again, if Montana doesn't get hurt and the NFC doesn't completely suck ass in 2006, the Bears never get there. the #2 seed in the NFC in 2006 was 10-6. I have never before or since seen a 10-6 team get a bye that I can remember. I've seen 11 win teams get a bye plenty of times, but not 10 wins.  

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They played them in 84, 88 and 89 and lost all three times. 

They played them in 89?  What was the score?

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Again, if Montana doesn't get hurt and the NFC doesn't completely suck ass in 2006, the Bears never get there. the #2 seed in the NFC in 2006 was 10-6. I have never before or since seen a 10-6 team get a bye. 

This is such garbage. 

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

They played them in 89?  What was the score?

That one I wasn't completely sure about. They did, in fact play them in 84 and 88 and got pantsed both times. Outscored 51-3 in both games. 

They lost 23-0 in 84 and 28-3 in 88. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Again, if Montana doesn't get hurt and the NFC doesn't completely suck ass in 2006, the Bears never get there. the #2 seed in the NFC in 2006 was 10-6. I have never before or since seen a 10-6 team get a bye that I can remember. I've seen 11 win teams get a bye plenty of times, but not 10 wins.  

No.  Just no.

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

That one I wasn't completely sure about. They did, in fact play them in 84 and 88 and got pantsed both times. Outscored 51-3 in both games. 

They lost 23-0 in 84 and 28-3 in 88. 

Two whole times that totally confirms everything you suspected

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Two whole times that totally confirms everything you suspected

They got beat by Phil Simms and Doug Williams too, who both had a great season the year they beat them. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

Think about how the mid 80s Bears played defense and think of Bill Walsh's offense. Schematically, Montana gets the ball out of his hands before the defenders have a chance to get there. This is also how today's Bears are being attacked. Eventually, it will work. Rodgers executed it to perfection in the 2nd half of the season opener. 

It is an insult to my football intelligence to argue that the 80s Bears ever had a chance vs. the Niners in a playoff game. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They got beat by Phil Simms and Doug Williams too, who both had a great season the year they beat them. 

Doug Williams is now a great quarterback?

49 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That one I wasn't completely sure about. They did, in fact play them in 84 and 88 and got pantsed both times. Outscored 51-3 in both games. 

They lost 23-0 in 84 and 28-3 in 88. 

https://www.footballdb.com/games/boxscore.html?gid=1985101304 1985 Bears played the 49ers with Montana at QB. Bears won 26-10. I'm pretty sure that was Fridge's debut as a blocking back, too. 

Just now, Middle Buffalo said:

https://www.footballdb.com/games/boxscore.html?gid=1985101304 1985 Bears played the 49ers with Montana at QB. Bears won 26-10. I'm pretty sure that was Fridge's debut as a blocking back, too. 

Ironically, that was the game that Montana got hurt in, IIRC. 

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Doug Williams is now a great quarterback?

That season he was, but not really. Which proves my point. Even a QB playing way above his head for one game can take down a great defense. QBs are the ultimate gamechanger. You can't win without them. 

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That season he was, but not really. Which proves my point. Even a QB playing way above his head for one game can take down a great defense. QBs are the ultimate gamechanger. You can't win without them. 

Or that you can win without a great QB, which Doug Williams wasn't and neither were Jim McMahon or Rex Grossman or Joe Flacco...

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Or that you can win without a great QB, which Doug Williams wasn't and neither were Jim McMahon or Rex Grossman or Joe Flacco...

Joe Flacco played out of his mind during that run. So did Doug Williams. So did Phil Simms in 1986. All average QBs who went on a hot streak and won a title. 

You have to get lucky. You can't plan for it. It just happens. I ask how many teams win 2+ superbowls with the same QB that is average and vs how many win 2+ with a HOF QB. The Raiders in 1980-83 and the Giants in 2007-11 are the only ones that pulled it off. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Joe Flacco played out of his mind during that run. So did Doug Williams. So did Phil Simms in 1986. All average QBs who went on a hot streak and won a title. 

So average QBs can win Super Bowls with great defenses.