Relying on your 21-23 year old athletes to accurately report pain is a lesson that should have been learned last year with Lopez.  Really just blows my mind in a billion dollar industry with a million, multi million dollar asset, possibly a triple digit million dollar asset you're not monitoring him more closely.  

There should be a dude  bro trainer on every single team that parties with these guys, is their buddy, and can accurately access their pain levels.  Failing that, they need to be doing EVERYTHING possible to inform these kids that pain is not weakness and to be honest.

The Sox failed here, they failed the minute they let him make that start and probably they failed months earlier when he was pitching with soreness in AAA and nobody did a wellness check on him.  

 

The question i have is dont they test medicals before callups to the big leagues?

How do they miss a UCL tear here? Its a gradual process isnt it? 

This is incredibly depressing news. 

You gotta look for some kind of silver lining. As Sox fans, we had a small hope that we'd be a dark horse contender next year, but that likely was not going to happen anyway. By all means, it doesn't seem like Kopech will need much extra development at the Major League level. He is developed, and when he returns and is at full strength and locked into his pitching, he should be able to pitch at a high level. 

Next year was only a small hope for a contending year, but 2020 is where we still look to get started. Adding him to the mix of what is hopefully a budding contender will be nice.

But yes, it absolutely blows to lose that service time. It is still better for it to happen now than in 2020 or 2021 when we are really looking to win a championship. 

 

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Relying on your 21-23 year old athletes to accurately report pain is a lesson that should have been learned last year with Lopez.  Really just blows my mind in a billion dollar industry with a million, multi million dollar asset, possibly a triple digit million dollar asset you're not monitoring him more closely.  

There should be a dude  bro trainer on every single team that parties with these guys, is their buddy, and can accurately access their pain levels.  Failing that, they need to be doing EVERYTHING possible to inform these kids that pain is not weakness and to be honest.

The Sox failed here, they failed the minute they let him make that start and probably they failed months earlier when he was pitching with soreness in AAA and nobody did a wellness check on him.  

 

Its not necessarily to accurately report it, its just report it. After they report it you do the physical tests. With his stature I would guess if he reported any issues he would have been in an MRI unit that evening. You're making your own case against you. 

Do you really think if there was any indication of an issue from him, that they wouldn't have been very careful with him? 

This is one of the most experienced medical staffs in the MLB. They wouldn't take the chance. 

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by ptatc

Trading Chris Sale should be a fireable offense.

45 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This particular activity is all legs and is fine. I cant say that I agree with them all.

No it's not. Deadlifting is really tough on your biceps and back. People tear biceps every day deadlifting. As I said, it's not related, but I wouldn't let my stud prospect deadlift. 

Im with some of you here, if your stud future ace is grimacing on the mound during warmups and is throwing 7 mph slower than what hes used to, why is he pitching? To appease the ratings?

The tear already happened so its a moot point. Its still indicative of a larger problem. Didnt Lopez battle through and obvious injury last season?

29 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It doesn't sounds like there was any indication from kopech that there was an issue. It depends on what he was reporting and I dont think its been reported.

Pointing fingers is hardly constructive. Blame the system. 

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

No it's not. Deadlifting is really tough on your biceps and back. People tear biceps every day deadlifting. As I said, it's not related, but I wouldn't let my stud prospect deadlift. 

That's why I qualified it with if they use good form. The injuries you described only happened when it's not done properly. If done properly it's all legs.

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by ptatc

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

No it's not. Deadlifting is really tough on your biceps and back. People tear biceps every day deadlifting. As I said, it's not related, but I wouldn't let my stud prospect deadlift. 

Whats your background?

People can tear their shit up with any exercise if its incorrectly performed. Post some data about deadlifts being unsafe please

17 minutes ago, bryank1202 said:

Trading Chris Sale should be a fireable offense.

And he would be on the DL right now and people would be saying if only their medical staff were more like the Red Sox.....

 

I don't know how anyone pins this on the White Sox. No team avoids these, and Kopech seemed like a top candidate to have this occur.

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

19 minutes ago, South Sider said:

This is incredibly depressing news. 

You gotta look for some kind of silver lining. As Sox fans, we had a small hope that we'd be a dark horse contender next year, but that likely was not going to happen anyway. By all means, it doesn't seem like Kopech will need much extra development at the Major League level. He is developed, and when he returns and is at full strength and locked into his pitching, he should be able to pitch at a high level. 

Next year was only a small hope for a contending year, but 2020 is where we still look to get started. Adding him to the mix of what is hopefully a budding contender will be nice.

But yes, it absolutely blows to lose that service time. It is still better for it to happen now than in 2020 or 2021 when we are really looking to win a championship. 

 

Dan O' Dowd says don't expect the guy to show up in 2020 and start pitching like he has been. You move forward and put Kopech on the back burner. 

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Pointing fingers is hardly constructive. Blame the system. 

It's not pointing fingers. Just justifying why it's not anyone screwing up here. Injuries happen.

1 minute ago, pcq said:

Dan O' Dowd says don't expect the guy to show up in 2020 and start pitching like he has been. You move forward and put Kopech on the back burner. 

You definitely move forward and kinda forget about him until he’s back. The game always moves on and doesn’t care about any one player.

3 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Whats your background?

People can tear their shit up with any exercise if its incorrectly performed. Post some data about deadlifts being unsafe please

I'm a physical therapist and athletic trainer. I've been treating athletes for 30 years. If you read the previous posts, I'm the one defending deadlifts and say they aren't an issue.

It's better that this issue can be addressed now when the season is winding down rather than waiting until next year when we're in serious contention for the division.

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I'm a physical therapist and athletic trainer. I've been treating athletes for 30 years. If you read the previous posts, I'm the one defending deadlifts and say they aren't an issue.

I was responding to TaylorStSox there 

7 minutes ago, pcq said:

Dan O' Dowd says don't expect the guy to show up in 2020 and start pitching like he has been. You move forward and put Kopech on the back burner. 

 

4 minutes ago, flavum said:

You definitely move forward and kinda forget about him until he’s back. The game always moves on and doesn’t care about any one player.

Yeah, and for all of those complaining about service time they can get a year back if they make him go to AAA until the ASB in 2020 and make him prove he's healthy. 

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

This is huge set back I'm not sure how you can spin it otherwise.  You just lost anywhere from 5-20 WAR over the next 4 years off your club.   

This is how I'm feeling right now, You guys?

6 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I was responding to TaylorStSox there 

Oops. Sorry. On my mobile and must have been off one.

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by ptatc

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

This is huge set back I'm not sure how you can spin it otherwise.  You just lost anywhere from 5-20 WAR over the next 4 years off your club.   

He isn't dead yet, and this creates an opportunity.  Maybe someone steps up.

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

This is huge set back I'm not sure how you can spin it otherwise.  You just lost anywhere from 5-20 WAR over the next 4 years off your club.   

There is absolutely no reason not to expect him back in 2020. 

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Oops. Sorry. In on my mobile and must have been off one.

Back on Kopech 

Do UCL tears like this gradually happen over a long timeframe or does it happen quickly? In other words, was his UCL messed up in Charlotte as well?

19 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Whats your background?

People can tear their shit up with any exercise if its incorrectly performed. Post some data about deadlifts being unsafe please

I never said deadlifts were "unsafe," however the likelihood of injury deadlifting is higher than pretty much any other movement. My background is just as a hobbyist in powerlifting. A moderately strong deadlift is moving 3x your weight, so the margin for error is really small. He's actually doing rack pulls in that picture, but it's pretty much the same movement. I'm guessing he's doing them with a hexbar because it's really easy to tear your bicep with an over/under grip, which he would most likely need to use when moving that much weight. 

Edited September 8, 20187 yr by TaylorStSox