1 minute ago, mqr said:

But they did have those guys, and did a great job in moving them which wasn't a given so who cares what would be if they didn't

My point is you are giving them just as much time or even more in a few cases to get the job done, as teams that did not have these assets to trade. The point being, it should be a little farther along. We shouldn't be reading there are only 1 or 2 guys in the line up that results matter and who will be here when they are good at this point. The pitching staff is beyond woeful, and that is with a huge surprise, Giolito, becoming really good. 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

No it's not a weird take. Look at baseball execs' quotes before the rebuild began. Many said it would be the shortest rebuild of all time because of these assets, yet the kool aid drinkers point out it should take at least as long, if not longer than teams that rebuilt and couldn't trade for multiple major league ready prospects.

The White Sox will(or at least should) be a aggressive this offseason, which leads to a contention window starting next year or 2021 at the latest. Of course injuries, like this year has shown, are always a factor, so there is some luck involved, but a 3-4 year rebuild is not outrageous and a pretty quick turnaround.

My memory isn't what it used to be, maybe you guys can help me. What has the FO done in the past two years (post Eloy trade) to help with the rebuild?

1 minute ago, Hatchetman said:

My memory isn't what it used to be, maybe you guys can help me. What has the FO done in the past two years (post Eloy trade) to help with the rebuild?

They signed Luis Robert and drafted Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn who are looking to be key pieces of next year‘s or in Vaughn‘s case of 2021‘s team.

37 minutes ago, mqr said:

You're absolutely nuts if you think a manager makes that big a difference. 

Just kidding. 

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

My point is you are giving them just as much time or even more in a few cases to get the job done, as teams that did not have these assets to trade. The point being, it should be a little farther along. We shouldn't be reading there are only 1 or 2 guys in the line up that results matter and who will be here when they are good at this point. The pitching staff is beyond woeful, and that is with a huge surprise, Giolito, becoming really good. 

The only way it was happening faster than 2020 was if literally every single prospect hit the ground running full speed and healthy. That obviously didn't happen and quite frankly is a ridiculous expectation. 

10 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

They signed Luis Robert and drafted Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn who are looking to be key pieces of next year‘s or in Vaughn‘s case of 2021‘s team.

Robert was signed before the Jiminez trade. 

14 minutes ago, Hatchetman said:

My memory isn't what it used to be, maybe you guys can help me. What has the FO done in the past two years (post Eloy trade) to help with the rebuild?

Very little outside of the draft, but they've also had very little to trade.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Robert was signed before the Jiminez trade. 

And any amateur GM could have drafted the other guys.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

And any amateur GM could have drafted the other guys.

I will happily give RH credit for them let's just see them in the big leagues having success first. Literally the exact same thing could have been said about Carlos Rodon and he's been a complete disappointment.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Very little outside of the draft, but they've also had very little to trade.

And where they have failed mightily is signing free agents they could flip for value.

So pretty much nothing in two years it seems. Every team has to draft somebody.

Just now, fathom said:

And where they have failed mightily is signing free agents they could flip for value.

Yep, hard to argue that.  

I wonder if the same people who say Hahn and co. can't evaluate talent at the ML level or bring in quality FA can give him even some credit for McCann, who could be really really important to this whole thing.

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

And where they have failed mightily is signing free agents they could flip for value.

and finding quality players in the draft.

3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I wonder if the same people who say Hahn and co. can't evaluate talent at the ML level or bring in quality FA can give him even some credit for McCann, who could be really really important to this whole thing.

I hope he is. His BABIP is down to .372 and his average had dropped 35 points. His framing stats are awful. Supposedly the staff likes throwing to him though and likes how he calls a game, but the team ERA is pretty inflated. 

He's definitely been a bargain though. Hopefully it's not a 100 game thing. 

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I wonder if the same people who say Hahn and co. can't evaluate talent at the ML level or bring in quality FA can give him even some credit for McCann, who could be really really important to this whole thing.

Let’s wait and see how he finishes up the year, as he was a great story during the first half but is quickly causing doubt about his long term outlook

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

And any amateur GM could have drafted the other guys.

But they didn‘t. I like how depending who is arguing Vaughn and Madrigal go from horrible picks with limited upside to easy BPA:

Schrodinger‘s draft picks. :loll

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Let’s wait and see how he finishes up the year, as he was a great story during the first half but is quickly causing doubt about his long term outlook

fathom, he was an all-star and he has a 2.5 WAR right now. McCann was an A++++ move considering his stats coming into this year.

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Let’s wait and see how he finishes up the year, as he was a great story during the first half but is quickly causing doubt about his long term outlook

If he ends up with his 2017 numbers that is still a shrewd pickup for $2 million.

5 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

If he ends up with his 2017 numbers that is still a shrewd pickup for $2 million.

The problem is the shrewd signings are few and far between. 

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem is the shrewd signings are few and far between. 

True that, if McCann, Kahnle and Luis Robert/Abreu (via Paddy and KW) are all that I need to keep my job for at least another five years...sign me up.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

True that, if McCann, Kahnle and Luis Robert/Abreu (via Paddy and KW) are all that I need to keep my job for at least another five years...sign me up.

Well he's made most of his acquisitions through trade, though, so that's not all he had to do. The FA signed in many cases were intentional stopgaps. Evaluating him on moves like Yonder make no sense in some regards.. When he goes out and has to get a big ticket RF then I think you can hang his legacy on that, but we are a year out from knowing.

 

14 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Well he's made most of his acquisitions through trade, though, so that's not all he had to do. The FA signed in many cases were intentional stopgaps. Evaluating him on moves like Yonder make no sense in some regards.. When he goes out and has to get a big ticket RF then I think you can hang his legacy on that, but we are a year out from knowing.

 

 When he was "going for it", the best he did was win 78 games. What has changed that makes you believe he is capable of picking the correct players to get the team over the top? Obviously, the Tatis trade was horrible, but coming in 2nd may have been the Shark trade. The Sox need pitchers. Hopefully trading for them isn't the option they choose.

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

30 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

fathom, he was an all-star and he has a 2.5 WAR right now. McCann was an A++++ move considering his stats coming into this year.

Sure was a great pickup for this year no matter what.  Just hesitant to say he’s a long term piece