2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

2 starters are needed if we are going to contend.

Yes I agree. We're looking at Wheeler and someone like Alex Wood or Wacha at this point. 

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

2 starters are needed if we are going to contend.

They are going to have to be 25 games better next year to contend,  2 starters, 2 relievers, an all starish RF and DH, Robert and Madrigal learning fast, Eloy improving, TA fielding better, Cease and Lopez stepping up, Kopech showing no effects, Rodon coming back strong, and everyone else at least maintaining and staying healthy, and maybe they have a shot.

11 hours ago, Sarava said:

I said it above, but I can say it again if you somehow missed it. I think Reinsdorf is too cheap to sign a TOR starter, and that's probably the only other way we're going to get one.

We have one.
 Trading scarce prospects for these pitchers is how you clown it up like 2014-16.  You end up with a team with no depth and everything has to go right and you have a 2 year window and then need to rebuild again.

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by GreenSox

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't want to move Vaughn either, but how else are they going to fill holes? It's either him or Madrigal unfortunately. They still suck at developing anything other than top talent. The farm is barren outside of Robert, Madrigal, Kopech and Vaughn. Maybe Stiever can take another step.  3 of them will graduate next year. Where is the prospect currency going to come from to fill holes via trade? We're going to end up like the Cubs after they traded Torres, Cease and Jimenez. It's going to be hard to fill holes where they pop up in season because the farm is back to crap. They HAVE to do better at developing players.  Next year in the mid-season report they're going to be a bottom 5 system. 

Are there that many missing pieces that we couldn't sign a good portion of them?

I'll be that guy.  I would rather be worse and find out what we have in the majors than trade this early.  Show me improvement next year with Luis, Madrigal, and Kopech then we can talk about filling holes.

 

And the Cubs thing was gross mismanagement.  They never had any arms in the minors and it cost them dearly.

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by Eloy Jiménez

4 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Are there that many missing pieces that we couldn't sign a good portion of them?

I'll be that guy.  I would rather be worse and find out what we have in the majors than trade this early.  Show me improvement next year with Luis, Madrigal, and Kopech then we can talk about filling holes.

 

And the Cubs thing was gross mismanagement.  They never had any arms in the minors and it cost them dearly.

You always need relief pitching in-season. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

You always need relief pitching in-season. 

Still not justification for trading Nick Madrigal or Andrew Vaughn.  Especially not this offseason.

6 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Still not justification for trading Nick Madrigal or Andrew Vaughn.  Especially not this offseason.

There's not much out there for RF. Bumgarner is the only top LHP available for FA, and I have him going to the Angels or staying in SF. I don't trust them to spend money and I think they'd rather trade Vaughn or Madrigal than spend money in free agency. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

There's not much out there for RF. Bumgarner is the only top LHP available for FA, and I have him going to the Angels or staying in SF. I don't trust them to spend money and I think they'd rather trade Vaughn or Madrigal than spend money in free agency. 

No offense, but that's nonsense.

16 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

No offense, but that's nonsense.

It’s absolute insanity that people think this.

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s absolute insanity that people think this.

If Madrigal or Vaughn is traded this season, I'm guessing Kenny would have already fired Hahn and taken the GM job back.

Madrigal and Vaughn aren't getting traded.  Especially when their payroll is under 50 million after arb is considered and the window just cracked.

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s absolute insanity that people think this.

Some of us think its absolute insanity to believe that they'll actually pay up for anyone other than dumpster diving. 

In other words, I'l believe it when it happens. 

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

1 hour ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Are there that many missing pieces that we couldn't sign a good portion of them?

I'll be that guy.  I would rather be worse and find out what we have in the majors than trade this early.  Show me improvement next year with Luis, Madrigal, and Kopech then we can talk about filling holes.

 

And the Cubs thing was gross mismanagement.  They never had any arms in the minors and it cost them dearly.

Who do we have? All our starting pitcher prospects have had TJ. The relief pitching prospects have flopped pretty badly. 

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Who do we have? All our starting pitcher prospects have had TJ. The relief pitching prospects have flopped pretty badly. 

Stiever, and that's about it. Hopefully Thompson and Dalquist turn into something. 

1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Madrigal and Vaughn aren't getting traded.  Especially when their payroll is under 50 million after arb is considered and the window just cracked.

No way they are trading those two guys. Gosh, peeps, we tanked to get Madrigal and Vaughn for gosh sakes. That would be pure insanity to trade them.

52 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Some of us think its absolute insanity to believe that they'll actually pay up for anyone other than dumpster diving. 

In other words, I'l believe it when it happens. 

Some of you live your lives according to Murphy’s Law and assume the worst will happen at all times.

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Some of you live your lives according to Murphy’s Law and assume the worst will happen at all times.

Didn't you learn anything from last winter dude? 

It's not Murphy's law. It's protecting yourself from continual disappointment.

You've been a Sox fan long enough, I think you get it. We have to be the most cynical fans in baseball and that cynicism is well earned. 

I hope they make some moves but I'm not counting on it. Same thing I said last winter. 

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

4 hours ago, GreenSox said:

We have one.
 Trading scarce prospects for these pitchers is how you clown it up like 2014-16.  You end up with a team with no depth and everything has to go right and you have a 2 year window and then need to rebuild again.

They're already there dude. 

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Didn't you learn anything from last winter dude? 

It's not Murphy's law. It's protecting yourself from continual disappointment.

You've been a Sox fan long enough, I think you get it. We have to be the most cynical fans in baseball and that cynicism is well earned. 

I hope they make some moves but I'm not counting on it. Same thing I said last winter. 

Yes I did, which is don’t count on us landing a whale.  We will certainly add quality players via free agency even if their last names aren’t Cole or Rendon.  Those of you suggesting otherwise are implying we will be rocking a ridiculously low payroll and that’s not happening.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes I did, which is don’t count on us landing a whale.  We will certainly add quality players via free agency even if their last names aren’t Cole or Rendon.  Those of you suggesting otherwise are implying we will be rocking a ridiculously low payroll and that’s not happening.

If you're not expecting whales, then take Cole, Bumgarner and Strasburg off your list and replace them with Wheeler (who I know you like) and Ryu. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you're not expecting whales, then take Cole, Bumgarner and Strasburg off your list and replace them with Wheeler (who I know you like) and Ryu. 

Bumgarner is not a whale...like not even fucking close man.  Wheeler is so much better than him it’s not even funny and he’s not a whale.  Either way, anyone but Cole & Rendon should be on the table.  Strasburg is probably a long-shot, but that has to do more with how his agent will drag out the process and our need to address pitching right out the gate.

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Bumgarner is not a whale...like not even fucking close man.  Wheeler is so much better than him it’s not even funny and he’s not a whale.  Either way, anyone but Cole & Rendon should be on the table.  Strasburg is probably a long-shot, but that has to do more with how his agent will drag out the process and our need to address pitching right out the gate.

Yeah, Boras probably isn't going to let Strasburg sign until after Cole so someone who missed on Cole gets desperate. I wouldn't expect either to be signed until February. Actually, I wouldn't expect much to happen league wide until late January and February again. 

Edited September 29, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

Because so many of our guys got injured, we don't have the prospect depth to be making major trades.  I also don't think it is wise this year to sign free agents who have qualifying offers attached.  You lose your second round pick and the money associated with it.  This year it would cost us Thompson our #14 prospect.  With player graduations it would probably cost us a prospect who might be about #10.  Aside from Cole all the other pitchers offer risk I don't want to deal with.  

28 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Because so many of our guys got injured, we don't have the prospect depth to be making major trades.  I also don't think it is wise this year to sign free agents who have qualifying offers attached.  You lose your second round pick and the money associated with it.  This year it would cost us Thompson our #14 prospect.  With player graduations it would probably cost us a prospect who might be about #10.  Aside from Cole all the other pitchers offer risk I don't want to deal with.  

Wheeler is easily worth forfeiting a second pick IMO.

What kind of deal will he require?  He is at a career high in innings at 195.  WHIP 1.259 getting to pitch to pitchers.  29 years old and missed two years to injury.  This is my definition of a guy with warts/risk.  If I lose that pick, I want some degree of longevity but with his history that is a scary prospect to commit.