Angels sign Rendon - 7yrs 245

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Agree with all of this, but two comments:

First, Moncada has already volunteered to move to the outfield, per Renteria.

Additionally, you're right that Moncada is likely a better defender at 3B than Rendon, and that's why Rendon would be the one that I move in this hypothetical signing. 

If Moncada is actually all-in on this, and not just being a "good teammate" (which Rick would have to be able to read), then I'd absolutely consider it.

I also don't think you're going to be able to sign Rendon if you want to move him off his natural position and I don't think Rendon would be a great fit in right field; he played 2nd base for a long time prior, but again you'd be putting him at a position in which you have an elite defender coming up into. Rendon's bat would play in right, but his glove would be a question mark and he has definitely gotten value out of his glove. Madrigal's glove would play anywhere on the diamond, but his bat doesn't play in RF and I doubt his arm would.

[TomPickle]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not sure why we're using Moncada's prior defensive performance at an entirely different position to compare to Rendon's success at one position. 

I was saying Rendon at 3B in 2018 and 2017 were both better than Moncada at 3B in 2019. That's also true of Rendon's 2016 and 2014 seasons. He's good defensively. I know he's older than Moncada and there is still time for Moncada to grow at 3B. I just don't think it would really be much of a step down, if any, to have Rendon play 3B instead of Moncada.

I know some guys are just bad at reading balls off the bat in the outfield, but someone with the speed of Moncada and his arm should be able to move to RF without issue. I guess he could see it as a "demotion" defensively, like when guys don't want to move off SS to 3B, 2B or CF.

Edited December 5, 2019 by TomPickle

[steveno89]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

So we just spend a quarter billion dollars on 1 player and didn't even fill a hole?  Which is exactly this scenario is never going to happen for this organization, among other reasons.

Look, I'd love to have Rendon play for the White Sox.  But this isn't MLB the Show.  They aren't moving Moncada again (especially to a position he's never played), they aren't trading Madrigal just to create a hole at 2B to fill one elsewhere, and Rendon isn't going to sign somewhere to play somewhere other than 3B. The guy is good, but based on where we sit today, its just not a great use of limited funds. 

That being said, if the Sox actually did it - I certainly wouldn't complain -  I just don't see it as every remotely realistic.  

It does fill a hole though. It adds a legitimate veteran superstar to the organization who is in his prime right as we are looking to contend. You cannot trade for a player like Rendon, you either have to develop them or blow your wad in free agency. This is the time for the Sox to sack up and pay a star after missing badly on Machado. 

Move Moncada to RF, Madrigal goes to 2B, Robert in CF and enjoy the fireworks. It would easily be one of the strongest White Sox lineups ever. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by steveno89

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'm trading Madrigal in this scenario for SP/RF and putting Yo at 2b.

Yoan was bad at second. I'm not sure if Sox fans remember how bad he was over there; I don't think the scenario should be Yoan going back to second in any scenario.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

I was saying Rendon at 3B in 2018 and 2017 were both better than Moncada at 3B in 2019. That's also true of Rendon's 2016 and 2014 seasons. He's good defensively. I know he's older than Moncada and there is still time for Moncada to grow at 3B. I just don't think it would really be much of a step down, if any, to have Rendon play 3B instead of Moncada.

I know some guys are just bad at reading balls off the bat in the outfield, but someone with the speed of Moncada and his arm should be able to move to RF without issue. I guess he could see it as a "demotion" defensively, like when guys don't want to move off SS to 3B, 2B or CF.

Yeah, but Rendon isn't getting any younger and defense ages more quickly than offense. Moncada was excellent in his first year there with growth in the future. Rendon's defense is only heading down from here.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, steveno89 said:

It does fill a hole though. It adds a legitimate veteran superstar to the organization who is in his prime right as we are looking to contend. You cannot trade for a player like Rendon, you either have to develop them or blow your wad in free agency. This is the time for the Sox to sack up and pay a star after missing badly on Machado. 

Move Moncada to RF, Madrigal goes to 2B, Robert in CF and enjoy the fireworks. It would easily be one of the strongest White Sox lineups ever. 

Yah, don't get your hopes up.

Moncada isn't moving to the OF, so you move him back to 2B, and then trade Madrigal for a SP/RF.  And if its for SP, you still have a hole in RF.  And if its for a RF, you still have a SP hole and $250M+ less to fix it.  

Your plan sounds great if this were a video game.  But its not.  Like I said, I'd love to see it - but it just doesn't seem even remotely possible.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

It does fill a hole though. It adds a legitimate veteran superstar to the organization who is in his prime right as we are looking to contend. You cannot trade for a player like Rendon, you either have to develop them or blow your wad in free agency. This is the time for the Sox to sack up and pay a star after missing badly on Machado. 

Move Moncada to RF, Madrigal goes to 2B, Robert in CF and enjoy the fireworks. It would easily be one of the strongest White Sox lineups ever. 

Moncada's defense at 3rd base was worth about 1 WAR last year over average. If he was a below average RF'er last year (pure speculation) with the exact same batting line he goes from a 5.7 WAR player to a 4.6 WAR player. Obviously I am assuming he wouldn't be plus there, but that risk would be tied to the move and it's a risk I'm not sure I would take given that they have other holes that they'd see a much more significant net gain from than signing Rendon and moving Moncada.

I'll also add, if Moncada improves at 3rd in his second season, we're talking about an even bigger loss in value as you may be pulling 2 WAR defensively and replacing it with 0.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jose Abreu]

11 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Where would you move Rendon to? Second base? Then move Madrigal for a pitcher?

Probably, yeah. Moving Rendon to RF is also an option as I weirdly think he'd be competent out there, but I think 2B would be more likely.

9 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I would love nothing more than the White Sox twitter account announcing a surprise Rendon signing. God I hope that missing out on Wheeler has lit a fire under the front office.

Not that it means anything, but all the "source" accounts on Twitter (not the real ones like Bilek/WSD etc but the Steve Cisheks of the world) are all saying stuff like this today.

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If Moncada is actually all-in on this, and not just being a "good teammate" (which Rick would have to be able to read), then I'd absolutely consider it.

I also don't think you're going to be able to sign Rendon if you want to move him off his natural position and I don't think Rendon would be a great fit in right field; he played 2nd base for a long time prior, but again you'd be putting him at a position in which you have an elite defender coming up into. Rendon's bat would play in right, but his glove would be a question mark and he has definitely gotten value out of his glove. Madrigal's glove would play anywhere on the diamond, but his bat doesn't play in RF and I doubt his arm would.

Fair points. Definitely agree that Madrigal would have to stay at 2B (on whichever team). 

[DirtySox]

3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Probably, yeah. Moving Rendon to RF is also an option as I weirdly think he'd be competent out there, but I think 2B would be more likely.

Not that it means anything, but all the "source" accounts on Twitter (not the real ones like Bilek/WSD etc but the Steve Cisheks of the world) are all saying stuff like this today.

Fair points. Definitely agree that Madrigal would have to stay at 2B (on whichever team). 

Keith Law thinks Yoan is talented enough to even handle CF. I reckon RF wouldn't be a huge problem. From his chat below.

Quote

Josh : If the White Sox go after Rendon , would moving Moncada to RF make sense?
Keith Law: Or centerfield? Granted Robert’s there too but why couldn’t Moncada play it?

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by DirtySox

[bmags]

He's got a great arm and we have a small RF. We'd be adding not just better power, but a guy that walks almost as much as he strikes out. It would essentially finish our offense including future internal additions and allow us to make moves for pitching as they become available.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Keith Law thinks Yoan is talented enough to even handle CF. I reckon RF wouldn't be a huge problem. From his chat below.

 

Robert is a world class CF'er so no idea why you'd move anyone to that position. 

I've watched enough Robert at this point to believe we're look at an elite defensive talent.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

He's got a great arm and we have a small RF. We'd be adding not just better power, but a guy that walks almost as much as he strikes out. It would essentially finish our offense including future internal additions and allow us to make moves for pitching as they become available.

Rendon isn't signing somewhere to play RF; at least, I don't think so. You'd have to pay a hell of a surplus, I think, to get him to move positions at this point in his career.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[steveno89]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, don't get your hopes up.

Moncada isn't moving to the OF, so you move him back to 2B, and then trade Madrigal for a SP/RF.  And if its for SP, you still have a hole in RF.  And if its for a RF, you still have a SP hole and $250M+ less to fix it.  

Your plan sounds great if this were a video game.  But its not.  Like I said, I'd love to see it - but it just doesn't seem even remotely possible.  

I realize the Sox will not actually get Rendon, but you find a way to get a perennial MVP candidate into your lineup. Next season's FA class outside of Betts, Springer, Simmons, Semien, Realmuto, Bauer, Ray the pickings are pretty slim

[DirtySox]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Robert is a world class CF'er so no idea why you'd move anyone to that position. 

Right. He acknowledged Robert. I think the point is that Moncada is gifted enough to play pretty much anywhere.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Rendon isn't signing somewhere to play RF; at least, I don't think so. You'd have to pay a hell of a surplus, I think, to get him to move positions at this point in his career.

I’m talking about Moncada 

[Dick Allen]

They aren't going to sign Rendon, but Moncada did tell Renteria he can play the OF.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

I realize the Sox will not actually get Rendon, but you find a way to get a perennial MVP candidate into your lineup. Next season's FA class outside of Betts, Springer, Simmons, Semien, Realmuto, Bauer, Ray the pickings are pretty slim

Thankfully there are several RF of note, and that will likely be our only position of need at that point, assuming we sign a SP to a multiyear deal yet this offseason.  

[steveno89]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

They aren't going to sign Rendon, but Moncada did tell Renteria he can play the OF.

Beyond wishful thinking, I realize. 

But can you imagine the utter jubilation for the Sox fanbase if we signed Rendon? It would put the Sox on the map in a major way, and announce to the MLB here we come. 

It could be our roll of the dice to try and win a WS

[MeanJoeCrede]

Stras+Moncada+Joc>>>Rendon+Moncada+ Scrub Starter we have to sign after we spend "the money" on Rendon

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Beyond wishful thinking, I realize. 

But can you imagine the utter jubilation for the Sox fanbase if we signed Rendon? It would put the Sox on the map in a major way, and announce to the MLB here we come. 

It could be our roll of the dice to try and win a WS

It's one reason I was hoping for Machado or Harper last year. One less position to worry about and a ton of capital for fans and potential acquisitions.  If Harper was the Sox RF and not in Philly, maybe it isn't so important for Wheeler to be near his in laws.

Rendon and the 2 big pitchers do that this year, but it doesn't look like the Sox are interested.  Even though they claim to have the money and think they are a destination. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Dick Allen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Rendon also isnt looking for any 8 or 10 year deals. Guy wants about a 5 year contract and then wants to retire. Which is a good thing, but also leads me to believe he'll he a dodger for about 5 years 200 million

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It's one reason I was hoping for Machado or Harper last year. One less position to worry about and a ton of capital for fans and potential acquisitions.  If Harper was the Sox RF and not in Philly, maybe it isn't so important for Wheeler to be near his in laws.

Rendon and the 2 big pitchers do that this year, but it doesn't look like the Sox are interested.  Even though they claim to have the money and think they are a destination. 

The phillies are in a worse position to win than the White Sox. 

I don't think wheeler was signing to hang out with bryce.

You'll spin even the right moves (not signing Harper) into something negative.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jose Abreu]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Rendon also isnt looking for any 8 or 10 year deals. Guy wants about a 5 year contract and then wants to retire. Which is a good thing, but also leads me to believe he'll he a dodger for about 5 years 200 million

And that's the exact reason I revived this thread. The Sox have an issue with offering long contracts, but over these past two winters, they have shown a new philosophy when it comes to AAV. 5/200 might be a bit much, but you get the point

[steveno89]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Rendon also isnt looking for any 8 or 10 year deals. Guy wants about a 5 year contract and then wants to retire. Which is a good thing, but also leads me to believe he'll he a dodger for about 5 years 200 million

Take this with a huge grain of salt...

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by steveno89

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

And that's the exact reason I revived this thread. The Sox have an issue with offering long contracts, but over these past two winters, they have shown a new philosophy when it comes to AAV. 5/200 might be a bit much, but you get the point

Rendon and Timmy can sit and talk about how boring baseball is when they're not the ones playing it. Would be awesome.