Before the season the sox hitting and rotation were seen as promising but the pen was considered a weakness by preseason projections.

However the pen really stepped up this year and did rather well but the last 2 weeks the pen did not so well with a 5.1 ERA. Is that a regression that was expected or do you think that some of the guys stepping up are for real and that is not something you are worried about?

 

I mean there are a few guys out there that it was due for.  Even Matt Foster is living on borrowed time.  I like Matt Foster going forward, but as a 300 ERA plus guy?  Uh, no.  The loss of Bummer and failure of Herrera/Cishek are big losses for this pen.  There are a LOT of young guys out there who are trying to fill rolls a bit higher than they are probably ready for, such as Cordero being the stopper of the set up guys.

I think it'll be good enough to get us through the regular season and maybe, hopefully, a playoff run. But if we were at game 43 of a normal season, I would be really worried about the regression candidates too

I think the issue has been how overworked theyve been lately.  Jimmy biceps cant pitch every freaking game.  Bummer and now fry getting hurt puts too much pressure on detwiler too.  Heuer and foster are young and some regression can be expected with them.  

21 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

I think the issue has been how overworked theyve been lately.  Jimmy biceps cant pitch every freaking game.  Bummer and now fry getting hurt puts too much pressure on detwiler too.  Heuer and foster are young and some regression can be expected with them.  

For the live of me I still don't understand why Renteria pulled Heuer and Foster last night after they were cruising.  They both threw 15 pitches.  Sox couldn't have ridden either one for a few more outs so they didn't have to go to Marshall (another guy on borrowed time)?

Minor nitpick but Renteria never lets his relievers that are in a groove go more than "planned" or whatever.

It's all about  Bummer.  Once he was gone guys got forced into different roles. They also are pitching more innings.

Sure some them were due to regress,after all Foster and Detwiler had 0.00 ERA for a while. Once Bummer went down things changed drastically .

I mean they've been exhausted, I think they will be fine if we can get a rotation set but if we can't...the problem is if two or three guys struggle at once it gets hard to hide when you need 4 IPs a game every game that week.

Just now, bmags said:

I mean they've been exhausted, I think they will be fine if we can get a rotation set but if we can't...the problem is if two or three guys struggle at once it gets hard to hide when you need 4 IPs a game every game that week.

That's is right there.  When you have starters going 7, you need two innings, meaning only a couple of guys need to do their jobs.  When your starters goes 5 or less, you need 4 to 5 guys do all be on in one night, which is much harder to find.

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

I mean they've been exhausted, I think they will be fine if we can get a rotation set but if we can't...the problem is if two or three guys struggle at once it gets hard to hide when you need 4 IPs a game every game that week.

Right as rain which is why I'm still confused as to why Foster, who ostensibly is stretched out for 25+, wasn't used for two innings last night.  Oh well I'll let it go.

I do understand why RR is not using guys for 2 innings. He would win more games if he did that but the pen is worked hard anyway and 2 inning stints make regeneration harder.

I rather occasionally have an inferior reliever getting shelled and losing the game than working the pen aces hard and going into the postseason tired.

Ideally you would use a quick hook and use the aces more but the sox only really have two starters who can go deep regularly (giolito and Keuchel) so the pen will be used a ton in the postseason.

Winning the division would be great but the sox absolutely need a fresh pen and riding the best pen guys hard would be bad.

only 2 of our starters can go 6 innings, of course the bullpen is going to regress. 

18 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I do understand why RR is not using guys for 2 innings. He would win more games if he did that but the pen is worked hard anyway and 2 inning stints make regeneration harder.

I rather occasionally have an inferior reliever getting shelled and losing the game than working the pen aces hard and going into the postseason tired.

Ideally you would use a quick hook and use the aces more but the sox only really have two starters who can go deep regularly (giolito and Keuchel) so the pen will be used a ton in the postseason.

Winning the division would be great but the sox absolutely need a fresh pen and riding the best pen guys hard would be bad.

Lotta good points there.  Really it just comes down to not having enough SP.

Yeah, cease is not bad but as a rookie pitcher you can't hope for much more than 5.

Maybe in the post season dunning can help out as a multi inning reliever and help the pen that way.

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean there are a few guys out there that it was due for.  Even Matt Foster is living on borrowed time.  I like Matt Foster going forward, but as a 300 ERA plus guy?  Uh, no.  The loss of Bummer and failure of Herrera/Cishek are big losses for this pen.  There are a LOT of young guys out there who are trying to fill rolls a bit higher than they are probably ready for, such as Cordero being the stopper of the set up guys.

To me this post is the most correct. It is just a matter of time before Matt Foster doesn’t look like a HOFer. Same with Marshall.Detwiler is due to implode. You are getting what you need out of Colome, but losing Bummer is going to hurt, and Cishek being meat is going to take its toll. Also, Jimmy Cordero as an every day guy might work for a week or two, but it isn’t going to last,

The bullpen has outperformed its talent level, and things are regressing back to the mean IMO. Maybe Rodon can help if he gets back. Maybe Lopez becomes a scary reliever. But they were probably OK with everything working out. Cishek and Bummer not contributing is hard to overcome , although they have overcome for quite a while.

 

The bullpen, beyond a few exceptions, have exceeded expectations. The lack of length beyond the first two starters is hurting the team, with Rodon and Lopez the primary culprits. 

(2020 IP per GS) + (Most recent 30+ (or max) GS season)

Within career norms:

• Giolito: 6.1 (2019 6.1)
• Keuchel: 5.9 (2018 6.0)
• Cease: 5.1 (2019 5.2)

Below career norms:

• Gonzalez 4.3 (2018 5.3)
• Rodon 2.9 (2016 5.9)
• Lopez 2.4 (2019 5.6)

Rookie:

• Dunning 4.7

They will need at least one additional starter beyond Kopech next year, or for Rodon and or Lopez to pitch 5+ IP/GS to piece together a 162 game rotation.

Yes.