Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: That is an unfair comparison. Moncada struggled for 3 years in the majors (one at Boston and two with the Sox) before exploding with his breakout year in 2019. Burger has only played a short amount of time in the minors and his first time up to the Sox, and so far he hasn't disappointed. We know what we have with Moncada. However the upside of Burger is so much higher IMO. I do think Burger can eventual be our starting 3rd baseman of the future. You say that like Burger is some 20/21 year old kid but he's within a year younger than Moncada. He won't be in the minors or on the bench taking over for Moncada when he leaves potentially in 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said: IMO you must keep Vaughn, Sheets and Burger. They need to be untouchable, unless you are offered an insane amount of prospects that is so amazing, you cant pass it up. You can trade Mercedes, but good luck! Sheets and Burger are both trading block guys. They don't have any position to feed into at the major league level for the next few years, and they also allow a team trading for them to look like they are getting guys ready to step in today. You don't have to trade them, but they are easy guys to move out in a deal because the Sox won't miss them, and the other team will get near ready talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It only seemed possible to people who haven't been willing to accept that Vaughn was their left fielder and he was not going down to work on things. He was going to work on things at the big league level. You could find dozens of posts from plenty of people who said if he isn't going to play every day then send him down. It was pretty apparent he wasn't going to play every day because that's what was happening before his recent stretch. There was one highly respected poster who said he has been our worst hitter against RHP by far and that his solution to play him every day was counter-intuitive . That seems like a lot of people to me. I wish it was possible to make people understand that the way he's been handled has been good for his development. If you play him every day maybe he feels the pressure to do well. By sitting him you are managing the person, not the top prospect with the expectation of greatness on his shoulders. It's the human factor. Let him know he doesn't have to be great right away , slow the game down, observe, learn. Call it fatherly or grandfatherly but it's more about learning at a slower pace ,encouraging him, letting him know they believe in him and that sitting him isn't a punishment just a way to observe to learn along with participate to learn. That's all I ever wanted. Edited July 12, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sheets and Burger are both trading block guys. They don't have any position to feed into at the major league level for the next few years, and they also allow a team trading for them to look like they are getting guys ready to step in today. You don't have to trade them, but they are easy guys to move out in a deal because the Sox won't miss them, and the other team will get near ready talent. I don't agree. Burger in time will be better than Moncada IMO. Plus Abreu doesn't have that many more great years left, Sheets and Burger will be needed and shouldn't be traded. We need bench players in the next few years before they become full time players. Btw, of course they are easy guys to move as they are extremely talented with huge upsides. My god if Sheets and Burger can look this good in a just a few games, it's scary to think in time how good they can be. Both these guys and Vaughn seem to have a great command of the zone and that is not a normal trait everybody just naturally has. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Edited July 12, 2021 by The Kids Can Play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: You say that like Burger is some 20/21 year old kid but he's within a year younger than Moncada. He won't be in the minors or on the bench taking over for Moncada when he leaves potentially in 2025. Yes they might be close in age, but that is only because Moncada never played college ball and Burger played 3 years in college. Moncada played pro baseball at the age of 17 in Cuba. Burger had several major horrific injuries, so his pro time between minors and the big leagues is so limited. Yes they are only a year apart in age, but no comparison in pro experience. Edited July 12, 2021 by The Kids Can Play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 19 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Yes they might be close in age, but that is only because Moncada never played college ball and Burger played 3 years in college. Moncada played pro baseball at the age of 17 in Cuba. Burger had several major horrific injuries, so his pro time between minors and the big leagues is so limited. Yes they are only a year apart in age, but no comparison in pro experience. Yeah I get all that but my point is he's block at 3B for the next 4 years and with him already being 25, it's a little silly to say he could be "the future" at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I don't agree. Burger in time will be better than Moncada IMO. Plus Abreu doesn't have that many more great years left, Sheets and Burger will be needed and shouldn't be traded. We need bench players in the next few years before they become full time players. Btw, of course they are easy guys to move as they are extremely talented with huge upsides. My god if Sheets and Burger can look this good in a just a few games, it's scary to think in time how good they can be. Both these guys and Vaughn seem to have a great command of the zone and that is not normal trait everybody just naturally has. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Burger has no where NEAR the ceiling that Yoan has. You might be able to quibble about how close to that ceiling that Yo will get, but let's not lose track of the fact that Burger is a pretty physically limited player who has had two MAJOR injuries already himself. I really do think Burger will be a very good hitter at the MLB level, but I don't see him having a superstar upside like Yoan does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Burger has no where NEAR the ceiling that Yoan has. You might be able to quibble about how close to that ceiling that Yo will get, but let's not lose track of the fact that Burger is a pretty physically limited player who has had two MAJOR injuries already himself. I really do think Burger will be a very good hitter at the MLB level, but I don't see him having a superstar upside like Yoan does. I don't see Moncada having this superstar upside like you do. Yes he is a good player, but the last two years he has not displayed any power. with a average far below his one good year of 2019. The good thing I will give to Moncada is he has displayed a better understanding of the zone and more walks and higher OBP. Yet I believe Burger will be a high walk guy too with more power. Plus as Steve Stone said and I agree. Moncada doesn't play with the intensity and passion like Abreu and others do. I think Burger because of his injury past, is highly motivated to work even that much harder to become a great player. Btw, Moncada is injured often too. Please don't make Moncada out to be this workhorse everyday non-injured player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, The Kids Can Play said: I don't see Moncada having this superstar upside like you do. Yes he is a good player, but the last two years he has not displayed any power. with a average far below his one good year of 2019. The good thing I will give to Moncada is he has displayed a better understanding of the zone and more walks and higher OBP. Yet I believe Burger will be a high walk guy too with more power. Plus as Steve Stone said and I agree. Moncada doesn't play with the intensity and passion like Abreu and others do. I think Burger because of his injury past, is highly motivated to work even that much harder to become a great player. Btw, Moncada is injured often too. Please don't make Moncada out to be this workhorse everyday non-injured player. Moncada has also played through some obvious power sapping injuries the last two years, and is still putting up top numbers at 3B. He also has already put up real MLB power numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I don't see Moncada having this superstar upside like you do. Yes he is a good player, but the last two years he has not displayed any power. with a average far below his one good year of 2019. The good thing I will give to Moncada is he has displayed a better understanding of the zone and more walks and higher OBP. Yet I believe Burger will be a high walk guy too with more power. Plus as Steve Stone said and I agree. Moncada doesn't play with the intensity and passion like Abreu and others do. I think Burger because of his injury past, is highly motivated to work even that much harder to become a great player. Btw, Moncada is injured often too. Please don't make Moncada out to be this workhorse everyday non-injured player. COVID definitely fucked him up last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, manbearpuig said: COVID definitely fucked him up last year. Maybe, but he cant use that excuse this year for only 5 HR's and 39 RBI's and BA of .272. Hell Leury Garcia has played less games and less at bats and has 39 RBI's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said: Maybe, but he cant use that excuse this year for only 5 HR's and 39 RBI's and BA of .272. Hell Leury Garcia has played less games and less at bats and has 39 RBI's. Hand and shoulder injuries this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I def feel like it's 2000 in here with some of these RBI and BA based hot takes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: Maybe, but he cant use that excuse this year for only 5 HR's and 39 RBI's and BA of .272. Hell Leury Garcia has played less games and less at bats and has 39 RBI's. Without knowing the long-term effects of COVID we can't say he can't use it as an excuse either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Moncada is one of only five qualified batters in MLB with an OBP of over .400 at the All-Star Break. Is he as good as he could be? No. Is he still an incredibly valuable player? Absolutely. Is it ridiculous to talk about trading him or moving him off his best position? Most certainly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Moncada is the best player on the team even without the power showing up lmao 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I have a feeling he’s going to find his power stroke in the second half and finish between 20-25 homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said: Moncada is one of only five qualified batters in MLB with an OBP of over .400 at the All-Star Break. Is he as good as he could be? No. Is he still an incredibly valuable player? Absolutely. Is it ridiculous to talk about trading him or moving him off his best position? Most certainly. I agree Moncada is a good player and valuable and we definitely don't need to trade him. My only thing was posters here in the forum who said we don't need Burger and he good trade bait. Like we have the greatest 3rd baseman in baseball with Moncada, so we are set for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I agree Moncada is a good player and valuable and we definitely don't need to trade him. My only thing was posters here in the forum who said we don't need Burger and he good trade bait. Like we have the greatest 3rd baseman in baseball with Moncada, so we are set for years. With Moncada at 3B, Abreu at 1B, and Madrigal at 2B, you really don't have a future starting spot for Jake Burger. His profile doesn't make him a super sub kind of player, as he hasn't apparently shown the defensive versatility to do much else than 3b or 1b, you really don't have somewhere to put him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said: I agree Moncada is a good player and valuable and we definitely don't need to trade him. My only thing was posters here in the forum who said we don't need Burger and he good trade bait. Like we have the greatest 3rd baseman in baseball with Moncada, so we are set for years. We are set for years lol the next 4 to be exact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: With Moncada at 3B, Abreu at 1B, and Madrigal at 2B, you really don't have a future starting spot for Jake Burger. His profile doesn't make him a super sub kind of player, as he hasn't apparently shown the defensive versatility to do much else than 3b or 1b, you really don't have somewhere to put him. This. And the poster is failing to see this. He’s acting like we will just call up Burger for 3B when Moncada’s deal is done lol I’m thinking he maybe eventually gets moved for a starter with some control in the off-season. Not a rental. Edited July 12, 2021 by manbearpuig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, manbearpuig said: This. And the poster is failing to see this. He’s acting like we will just call up Burger for 3B when Moncada’s deal is done lol That is 2024, or 2025 with his option. Jake Burger isn't marinating in AAA that long, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: I def feel like it's 2000 in here with some of these RBI and BA based hot takes. Not relevant anymore, hmmm, let's see: AL standings: Bos - 1st place - 55-36 - East CWS - 1st place - 54-35 - Central Hou - 1st place - 55-36 - West AL BA leaders Hou - 1st - .269 BOS - 3rd - .259 CWS - 4th - .257 AL Runs scored leaders Hou - 1st - 5.45 per game CWS - 2nd - 5.12 per game Bos - 4th - 5.10 per game All the sabermetrics are great, but it's still about BA, and scoring runs. So please stop with the silly sarcastic hot take remarks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: We are set for years lol the next 4 to be exact. I was being sarcastic about being set for years with Moncada. I was making fun of the posters in here who think Moncada is a superstar and we can let Burger go, like we have the best third baseman in baseball and no reason to keep Burger. Like we are set at 3B for years. We need to keep both! Again this is not about going for the WS title this year only. This is about maintaining sustained success for years to come, which obviously Theo Epstein and the Cubs screwed up. We don't want to win a WS like the Cubs did in 2016 and then have to do a major sell-off and 2nd rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, The Kids Can Play said: I was being sarcastic about being set for years with Moncada. I was making fun of the posters in here who think Moncada is a superstar and we can let Burger go, like we have the best third baseman in baseball and no reason to keep Burger. Like we are set at 3B for years. We need to keep both! Again this is not about going for the WS title this year only. This is about maintaining sustained success for years to come, which obviously Theo Epstein and the Cubs screwed up. We don't want to win a WS like the Cubs did in 2016 and then have to do a major sell-off and 2nd rebuild. Jake Burger only has so many options left. Its not reasonable to keep him stashed away forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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