39 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

The Cubs own most of the market value in Chicago. The Sox market value is average at best for a MLB franchise while their stadium and brand value is below average (and probably near the bottom) of MLB franchises. I don't think you can make an argument where the Sox from an overall value perspective would be better off on the south side than Las Vegas.

This just isn't true, honestly. Been plenty of polls suggesting that the South and Western Suburbs are more Sox (northwest Indiana too) than Cubs. Cubs have the north, more of downtown, and obviously the far west into Iowa, middle part of the state and far north suburbs; Cubs also have a bigger national following due to their days on WGN, and they get more tourists because of their ballpark location and because for some reason fans like going to a garbage dump because it's old.

The actual split within the close suburbs and the city isn't all that varied. 

If the Sox are good they'll be around 47-48% of the split. 

Edited March 26, 20224 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

Seems to be some people here conflating liability in regards to cities (regarding moving and not having a team somewhere) with an inability to move being caused by anti-trust. 

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Ole poppysox already carrying water for the owners!

You are nothing if not predictable Ron.

Poopy Sox strikes again!

53 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

The Cubs own most of the market value in Chicago. The Sox market value is average at best for a MLB franchise while their stadium and brand value is below average (and probably near the bottom) of MLB franchises. I don't think you can make an argument where the Sox from an overall value perspective would be better off on the south side than Las Vegas.

Everything can change with an eventual new ownership. I believe the Cubs lock on this market can be challenged even with a stadium that is now over 30 years old. 

For decades now, I have heard Sox fans worry about the team leaving. Not going to happen as long as JR owns the team. At this point in his life, I don't think he wants to do something like this.

Even if the Sox moved sometime in the future, I don't think the American League will want to concede Chicago to the National League. Some other franchise will fill the void.  Regardless, I have no concerns about the Sox leaving or the Cubs being the only team in town.  

3 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Everything can change with an eventual new ownership. I believe the Cubs lock on this market can be challenged even with a stadium that is now over 30 years old. 

For decades now, I have heard Sox fans worry about the team leaving. Not going to happen as long as JR owns the team. At this point in his life, I don't think he wants to do something like this.

Even if the Sox moved sometime in the future, I don't think the American League will want to concede Chicago to the National League. Some other franchise will fill the void.  Regardless, I have no concerns about the Sox leaving or the Cubs being the only team in town.  

Not commenting on the thread topic, but there will be no American and National League in 5 years. The DH rule and playing every team next year…they’re chipping away to get to geographic realignment. My guess is the 8 teams in the Central time zone will be a division soon.

6 minutes ago, flavum said:

Not commenting on the thread topic, but there will be no American and National League in 5 years. The DH rule and playing every team next year…they’re chipping away to get to geographic realignment. My guess is the 8 teams in the Central time zone will be a division soon.

I agree that the AL and NL will go away but I don't see there being 8 team divisions. Probably 6 x 5 or 5 x 6.

3 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I agree that the AL and NL will go away but I don't see there being 8 team divisions. Probably 6 x 5 or 5 x 6.

They are going to add two more teams, so zero reason to realign before them.  But once it happens, eight four team divisions is what will happen.

14 minutes ago, flavum said:

Not commenting on the thread topic, but there will be no American and National League in 5 years. The DH rule and playing every team next year…they’re chipping away to get to geographic realignment. My guess is the 8 teams in the Central time zone will be a division soon.

It just makes sense. Let's modernize baseball.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They are going to add two more teams, so zero reason to realign before them.  But once it happens, eight four team divisions is what will happen.

4-team divisions are a bad idea. What happens if all four teams suck? It’s much more likely with 32 teams they go 4 division winners, and the rest are just playoff teams.

Here’s how realignment should work assuming news teams added in Nashville & Vegas:

• AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL
• AL North: CHW, MIN, DET, CLE
• AL South: HOU, TEX, COL, KC
• AL West: LAA, OAK, SEA, LV*
• NL East: NYM, PHI, PIT, WAS
• NL North: CHC, STL, MIL, NSH*
• NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN
• NL West: LAD, SFG, SDP, ARI

Most key rivalries kept in place and only two teams forced to change leagues and neither being legacy teams where there would be much pushback.  Really don’t see a better option.

21 minutes ago, flavum said:

4-team divisions are a bad idea. What happens if all four teams suck? It’s much more likely with 32 teams they go 4 division winners, and the rest are just playoff teams.

I seriously doubt all four teams would suck, but even so, have smaller division races is a lot more fun that eight team divisions.  

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I seriously doubt all four teams would suck, but even so, have smaller division races is a lot more fun that eight team divisions.  

1994 AL West

7 minutes ago, flavum said:

1994 AL West

So something that has happened once in the last 30 years?

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here’s how realignment should work assuming news teams added in Nashville & Vegas:

• AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL
• AL North: CHW, MIN, DET, CLE
• AL South: HOU, TEX, COL, KC
• AL West: LAA, OAK, SEA, LV*
• NL East: NYM, PHI, PIT, WAS
• NL North: CHC, STL, MIL, NSH*
• NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN
• NL West: LAD, SFG, SDP, ARI

Most key rivalries kept in place and only two teams forced to change leagues and neither being legacy teams where there would be much pushback.  Really don’t see a better option.

I really like this alignment.  If we are adding teams though I'd really want to see MLB return to Montreal, even if that's just a pipe dream. 

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here’s how realignment should work assuming news teams added in Nashville & Vegas:

• AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL
• AL North: CHW, MIN, DET, CLE
• AL South: HOU, TEX, COL, KC
• AL West: LAA, OAK, SEA, LV*
• NL East: NYM, PHI, PIT, WAS
• NL North: CHC, STL, MIL, NSH*
• NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN
• NL West: LAD, SFG, SDP, ARI

Most key rivalries kept in place and only two teams forced to change leagues and neither being legacy teams where there would be much pushback.  Really don’t see a better option.

Stealing your idea with my dream tweaks:

• AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL
• AL North: CHW, MIN, DET, CLE
• AL South: HOU, TEX, COL, KC
• AL West: LAA, OAK, SEA, Portland*
• NL East: NYM, PHI, WAS, Montreal*
• NL North: CHC, STL, MIL, PIT
• NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN
• NL West: LAD, SFG, SDP, ARI

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So something that has happened once in the last 30 years?

It was the only 4-team division for a while. The strike saved mlb from having a playoff team under .500. It would happen all the time if they went with eight 4-team divisions, especially if the keep a somewhat balanced schedule. Trust me, when they go to 32, it’s 4 divisions of 8. You can get away with the 4 team thing in football because it’s 17 games. 162…not so much.

I would do 8 pacific/mtn, 8 central, 16 eastern time zone with rotating 4-team pods.

Edited March 26, 20224 yr by flavum

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Stealing your idea with my dream tweaks:

• AL East: NYY, BOS, TOR, BAL
• AL North: CHW, MIN, DET, CLE
• AL South: HOU, TEX, COL, KC
• AL West: LAA, OAK, SEA, Portland*
• NL East: NYM, PHI, WAS, Montreal*
• NL North: CHC, STL, MIL, PIT
• NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, CIN
• NL West: LAD, SFG, SDP, ARI

That would work too.  Just need one team out west to better balance things.

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

It just makes sense. Let's modernize baseball.

If modernizing baseball means further expansion and the dilution of the playoffs that make the regular season almost meaningless, you can count me out.

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

If modernizing baseball means further expansion and the dilution of the playoffs that make the regular season almost meaningless, you can count me out.

Or a slow spiral to oblivion. It's a challenge to balance old school with modern aesthetics.

15 hours ago, Texsox said:

Or a slow spiral to oblivion. It's a challenge to balance old school with modern aesthetics.

They could stop the spiral to oblivion by not having pointless lockouts. And I am suspicious of change when its main purpose to line someone's pockets. 

22 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

They could stop the spiral to oblivion by not having pointless lockouts. And I am suspicious of change when its main purpose to line someone's pockets. 

The best thing they could do is drop the regional blackouts and make MLB & Milb games accessible to anyone anywhere on TV or streaming w/o BS platform or cable exclusivity.  That would be modern.  But those restrictions make money for certain entities and MLB likes that status quo.  Making baseball viewing universally accessible does far more to grow the game than altering anything about the game itself. 

20 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

They could stop the spiral to oblivion by not having pointless lockouts. And I am suspicious of change when its main purpose to line someone's pockets. 

 

Fans vote with their pocketbooks. They will get the league they are most willing to pay for. It's really the only way fans have any input. The millions of casual fans will out vote the hard core traditionalists every time. 

So DH? Lined players pockets. 162 game season? Lined pockets. AL and NL merger? Lined pockets. Interleague play? Lined pockets? Night games? Lined pockets. Speeding up games is better for television, lining pockets. 

I'm the opposite. If it doesn't line pockets, in others words if the fans won't buy it, then I'm suspicious. 

 

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

 

Fans vote with their pocketbooks. They will get the league they are most willing to pay for. It's really the only way fans have any input. The millions of casual fans will out vote the hard core traditionalists every time. 

So DH? Lined players pockets. 162 game season? Lined pockets. AL and NL merger? Lined pockets. Interleague play? Lined pockets? Night games? Lined pockets. Speeding up games is better for television, lining pockets. 

I'm the opposite. If it doesn't line pockets, in others words if the fans won't buy it, then I'm suspicious. 

 

You are right. Fans can vote with their pocketbooks. I think MLB was shocked after the game resumed in 1995. They thought everything would return to normal, and fans would come flocking back. They didn't, and the fans who did return were pissed. MLB loved the homer race, but that only led to a scandal. 

I am only speaking for myself. I don't want a diluted playoff system, and I think tradition still has a place. I am in no hurry to return to the ball park. If other fans want to buy into everything MLB sells, that their choice.  But right now I am now wasting my money on this shit.

Just now, NWINFan said:

You are right. Fans can vote with their pocketbooks. I think MLB was shocked after the game resumed in 1995. They thought everything would return to normal, and fans would come flocking back. They didn't, and the fans who did return were pissed. MLB loved the homer race, but that only led to a scandal. 

I am only speaking for myself. I don't want a diluted playoff system, and I think tradition still has a place. I am in no hurry to return to the ball park. If other fans want to buy into everything MLB sells, that their choice.  But right now I am now wasting my money on this shit.

 

I believe you are speaking for a lot of hard core fans. At least I hope so. But I think we've seen business take over tradition post Curt Flood.

If three fans take our place what direction should MLB go? As we know it's a business. Using the Cubs versus Sox battle for market share as an example. Most of us know intelligent, baseball fans of both teams. Those may be split fairly evenly between the teams. We joke about the idiot Cub fans but those idiots are the numbers that shift back and forth between teams. We complain about bandwagon jumpers, but same thing, those are the groups marketing is fighting over. 

All those silly promotion nights? Those are not for the hardcore fan. 

Why did the AL add the DH? Not for hardcore fans, but to add a little star power in a line up and excite the casual fan. Purists disliked it but the common fan won. Night games? Hard core fans took vacation days to watch day games, not casual fans. 

For me I enjoy watching on person two evenly matched teams go at it. I don't need bobbleheads and fireworks. I doesn't need  to be a playoff game, although meaningless September games at the MLB level seem silly.