Mistakes Made

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

Moncada and Robert also received substantial signing bonuses long before their extensions, so if that kind of money was enough to take away their motivation, it sort of already happened long before they even hit the majors.  

Of the core, Moncada gets the most grief here, but Eloy is the one major disaster, and he should have been traded to Miami who was interested along with Yermin for SP.

White Sox Positional Rankings by fWAR Across MLB by Position (2019-2022):

• 4th Relief Pitchers
• 8th Starting Pitchers

• 7th Shortstop
• 11th First Baseman
• 11th Center Field
• 12th Third Baseman
• 14th Catcher
• 27th Left Field (Hi Mom!)
• 28th Right Field
• 29th Second Baseman

[RJSox_22]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The hiring of Tony LaRussa.  Everything went to shit after he was hired.

I’ve never seen a team look like they were begging for a new manager as much as this team in this season.  
 

I wonder where they’d be if they pulled the plug on Tony back during the Rangers/Dodgers home stand earlier in the season.   I imagine 90% of the other organizations would have fired him then, if only to attempt to change the culture and desperately try to salvage a very valuable season. 
 

 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, RJSox_22 said:

I’ve never seen a team look like they were begging for a new manager as much as this team in this season.  
 

I wonder where they’d be if they pulled the plug on Tony back during the Rangers/Dodgers home stand earlier in the season.   I imagine 90% of the other organizations would have fired him then, if only to attempt to change the culture and desperately try to salvage a very valuable season. 
 

 

I have never seen a team more in need of a change, ANY CHANGE, than this group.

[Perfect Vision]

I think you can make the case that the biggest mistake made, that created a domino effect to where the team is now, was not going all in on signing Harper when the opportunity for them couldn't have been better.  The lack of a competent RF and a power lefty bat has led the organization to make a number of decisions over the last few years that have turned out poorly for the team.

[Southwest Sider]

5 hours ago, Quin said:

In order of catastrophe:

1) Hiring TLR

2) Not offering Machado the full deal

3) Letting Rodon walk

4) Keeping Menechino

5) Not even bothering with Bryce Harper

6) Not even bothering with Mookie Betts

7) Not even bothering with Juan Soto

I get that these would have been hard guys to land but one of Machado, Harper, Betts or Soto may have really helped this offense as generational talents. However, #1 and #4 probably still would have gotten in the way. 

[Southwest Sider]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The White Sox were 26-16 after the day of the 3-0 Grand Slam by Yermin Mercedes.

Since that point, this team is 129-115.

They peaked out in 2021 at 43-26 on June 17 of 2021. 

Since that point they are 113-105

This isn't even JUST a 2022 thing.  The team fell hasn't been the same for about 14-15 months now.

The roster is by and large the same roster, with a few changes.  It is the same players who were killing it in the previous years who have tanked in the ensuing time.

I'm starting to think that Yermin Mercedes game was the game the team started to understand that maybe having fun isn't actually allowed. Whether Yermin actually stuck with the team or not, it was a critical mistake to punish him for trying to be a good baseball player and earn a ML spot / salary for a longer term. Fuck TLR. 

[Quin]

4 hours ago, South Sider said:

5) Not even bothering with Bryce Harper

6) Not even bothering with Mookie Betts

7) Not even bothering with Juan Soto

I get that these would have been hard guys to land but one of Machado, Harper, Betts or Soto may have really helped this offense as generational talents. However, #1 and #4 probably still would have gotten in the way. 

The reason I didn't include these is because these four were/are all right there and pretty much within their control.

[Jnooch]

We are probably not keeping Burger and are not selling low on Eloy, Yoan or Louis Robert. Next offseason does not look promising with some dead weight contracts. (Kelly, Grandal & Garcia are owed 30 million next year and have a combined war of less than zero. Thats 30 million dead dollars before the season starts.

[ScootsMcGoots]

2 minutes ago, Jnooch said:

We are probably not keeping Burger and are not selling low on Eloy, Yoan or Louis Robert. Next offseason does not look promising with some dead weight contracts. (Kelly, Grandal & Garcia are owed 30 million next year and have a combined war of less than zero. Thats 30 million dead dollars before the season starts.

So. Much. Wasted. Money. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 hours ago, coldwatersox said:

Let's assume that the season ends without the White Sox winning the American League pennant and playing in the World Series. Miracles can occur but let's be realistic with our expectations regarding this 2022 team and its disappointing performance to date.

What major mistakes were made that brought the team to this point? 

First in a long list should be the long term contracts bestowed upon unproven players who had not demonstrated the performance (time in service in MLB games played) necessary to justify the generosity of the sums promised based upon uncertain future performance. The notable recipients of this high level of unproven charitable giving are Yoan, Eloy, and Luis. None among that trio has posted a minimum number of games played with results matching the expectations that accompanied the contract given to each player. 

Unless the player has the very rare competitive instincts of Michael Jordan, Cal Ripken, or Tom Brady, a person needs to earn his way to the reward of a large dollar contract. A hunger must fill the belly of an athlete to fuel him to go out on the field or court daily and play at the highest level of competition. Every pitch, every at bat, every run to first base must matter as if it is the most important pitch, at bat, or run to first base which will occur during that person's entire career. Apathy and loafing are never acceptable to the champion athletes. 

Giving large lengthy contracts to Yoan, Eloy, and Luis before they had proven their potential appears now to have been a mistake. Each has the financial security that reduces the heat of the flame that fuels an athlete's need to prove his worthiness to receive the award of a large long term contract. 

Maybe 2023 will be the season to replace Yoan, Eloy, and Luis with rookies who are given the opportunity to prove their worth in everyday performance. Colas, Cespedes, Montgomery, Sosa, and others are ready to have their chance to earn the opportunity to receive a future payday and a long term contract. Retain Sheets, Vaughn, Burger, Kopech, Cease, and Crochet, and give the fans an exciting and fun team to watch in 2023. And, of course, replace the manager and entire coaching staff. 

If you're asking about 2022 you're asking the wrong questions. What is wrong with the franchise is ownership's inability to do things that teams who run good franchises do.

This isn't all about money so no need to bring up the Dodgers but the Dodgers just add to their wealth by also spending money also.

It starts with hiring the best people in many areas of the organization. Scouts, analytics, bio-mechanics, coaches, executives who have built or had a big part in building other successful organizations from the ground up.

They decided to rebuild without doing any of that stuff .

I would think a business man like Reinsdorf would understand that spending on infrastructure is a small fraction of what he''ll spend on payroll for players. If he gets the right people doing the right things the farm system could've provided more talent for years. But nope, JR handicaps them because he doesn't like paying for extremely young talent . Kenny Williams should have been fired when the Wilder scandal happened. Hahn and/or Kenny convinced JR to rebuild but then someone should have convinced JR to fire Hahn and KW and hire people from Tampa Bay.

Of course it may not have mattered since JR is still the one pulling the strings. The rebuild was doomed long before the Sox hired TLR.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 hours ago, South Sider said:

5) Not even bothering with Bryce Harper

6) Not even bothering with Mookie Betts

7) Not even bothering with Juan Soto

I get that these would have been hard guys to land but one of Machado, Harper, Betts or Soto may have really helped this offense as generational talents. However, #1 and #4 probably still would have gotten in the way. 

Those guys would be throwing good money after bad. And while that is typical of the Sox to do they do it in much smaller chunks on a lot of relievers who cost waaaaaaay less .

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Those guys would be throwing good money after bad. And while that is typical of the Sox to do they do it in much smaller chunks on a lot of relievers who cost waaaaaaay less .

The money was spent.  It would wholly, categorically inaccurate to characterize us as cheapskates.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The hiring of Tony LaRussa.  Everything went to shit after he was hired.

If that's what you truly think you haven't been paying attention for 40 years.

I mean sure it's great if you want to wrap things all up and put a bow on it and think things would've much different with whoever Hahn hired.

Hahn would still be and GM and JR still the owner.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The money was spent.  It would iwholly inaccurate to characterize us as cheapskates.

 

It's easy to pay money on payroll and when it goes to hell, reduced payroll.

The hard part is spending the money for top people in the organization and paying them for many many years and acting as if you care about building an infrastructure that would allow you to win.

The problem is, if you do that and are always in a position to win then you have to keep spending large amounts to keep it running that way.

When you hire incompetents you can keep them around and say it's loyalty when it's really part of the master plan to spend less and make more because your team sucks. Winning isn't cheap. Losing is much cheaper over time as long as you can fool the masses into thinking you're really trying to build a winner.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If that's what you truly think you haven't been paying attention for 40 years.

I mean sure it's great if you want to wrap things all up and put a bow on it and think things would've much different with whoever Hahn hired.

Hahn would still be and GM and JR still the owner.

Lmao, sure.  We didn't have a high flying playoff team turn into mediocre garbage since Tony got here.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Lmao, sure.  We didn't have a high flying playoff team turn into mediocre garbage since Tony got here.

LMAO sure keep sticking your head in the sand. I'm not saying hiring TLR wasn't a major disaster but if you think he's the only problem you are extremely gullible and shortsighted and have ignored 40 years of baseball with JR as the owner.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LMAO sure keep sticking your head in the sand. I'm not saying hiring TLR wasn't a major disaster but if you think he's the only problem you are extremely gullible and shortsighted and have ignored 40 years of baseball with JR as the owner.

So the fact that we had a playoff team with until he got here is something you are going to ignore to carry the mail for Tony.  But sure, I am the one who is gullible. You do you.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So the fact that we had a playoff team with until he got here is something you are going to ignore to carry the mail for Tony.  But sure, I am the one who is gullible. You do you.

OMG how strange you are ! You just ignore everything else wrong with the organization. Then you tell me I'm carrying water for TLR when I just told you his hiring was a major disaster ! At least when I do me I don't try to twist what was obviously not carrying water for TLR into something else. I post honestly. You post untruths that try to push off as truth.

He is just a small piece of what the organization has been doing for year after year. Who hired TLR ? Oh it was JR ! Who is the chairman of the board of the White Sox ? JR ! How many playoffs have the Sox been in that advanced beyond the 1st round in 40 years ? 1

You are carrying water for  JR and that is a lot closer to the truth than me carrying water for TLR which I was zero history of. Why the hell would anyone carry water for TLR ?

[kitekrazy]

20 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Hiring TLR is definitely mistake #1. However, Frank Menechino was here before that, so hiring him is a significant mistake as well and can't be all on TLR. The metrics show that the Sox had a successful offense in 2020-21 despite his approach, not because of it.

Easy to knock the Grandal and Keuchel signings in hindsight, but they should have at least been frontloaded so it would have been easier to DFA them if/when they went bad. Any 3+ year deal given to a guy over 30 should be frontloaded.

Not giving Rodon the QO was huge. Giving Leury and Joe Kelly multiyear deals. Keeping Eloy, Abreu and Vaughn all on the same roster, forcing one of them to be in the outfield where none of them belong. Those were all things that many, included myself, thought were bad ideas beforehand and not just hindsight.

  So was Boston and McEwing.  It's their job to prevent stupid mistakes like getting picked off third.  I don't think they pay attention either.  The problem that exist in all pro sports is the GMs give the responsibility to the head coach or manager to fire anyone from their staff.    The hitting coach needs to be fired.  The problem with hiring a manager who has been out of the game he can't being in his own people because they are retired to dead.

[zisk]

12 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

  So was Boston and McEwing.  It's their job to prevent stupid mistakes like getting picked off third.  I don't think they pay attention either.  The problem that exist in all pro sports is the GMs give the responsibility to the head coach or manager to fire anyone from their staff.    The hitting coach needs to be fired.  The problem with hiring a manager who has been out of the game he can't being in his own people because they are retired to dead.

Is Pants Rowland looking for a job?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

OMG how strange you are ! You just ignore everything else wrong with the organization. Then you tell me I'm carrying water for TLR when I just told you his hiring was a major disaster ! At least when I do me I don't try to twist what was obviously not carrying water for TLR into something else. I post honestly. You post untruths that try to push off as truth.

He is just a small piece of what the organization has been doing for year after year. Who hired TLR ? Oh it was JR ! Who is the chairman of the board of the White Sox ? JR ! How many playoffs have the Sox been in that advanced beyond the 1st round in 40 years ? 1

You are carrying water for  JR and that is a lot closer to the truth than me carrying water for TLR which I was zero history of. Why the hell would anyone carry water for TLR ?

I am not sure why, but like I said you do you.  Grrr.