39 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You have been saying that Kopech is still the same pitcher that he was with the Sox in several of your posts.  Meanwhile, he put up a 1.13 ERA in 24 regular season innings and a 3 ERA in 9 postseason innings with the Dodgers.  So is Kopech still the same pitcher or is it just because you misread his stats?

Do you actually think the Dodgers changed something dramatic about kopech in a couple days? 

He's a bullpen arm who was certainly capable of having a nice 24 inning stretch. 

It's amazing how much credit some of you give to coaches or analysts instead of the players themselves. 

Edited November 1, 20241 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

10 hours ago, WestEddy said:

He's putting that out there as something that isn't a direct lie. WS2023 doesn't believe a word of what he wrote. 

It’s not what he believes!  It’s what he says the new coach could say and be plausibly believable.

Edited November 1, 20241 yr by FloydBannister1983

To follow up quickly on the above, I want to dispel the notion that Kopech was saved by the Dodgers.

The difference between Dodgers and White Sox Kopech came down to a few things:

Kopech had a 167 BABIP against with the Dodgers vs 284 with the Sox. Kopech had an LOB% of 90% when his career average is around 77% which is around league average. Historically he's HR/FB ratio was 14% and with the Dodgers is was 4%. None of those things are sustainable nor are they adjustments that the Dodgers made to Kopech.

His pitch mix was basically unchanged - he threw his slider 2% more and his fastball 2% less, but the White Sox were actually the org that scrapped the Curve and the slider generally this year and told him to throw more fastballs. The fastball itself actually had slightly more quality with the Sox than it did with the Dodgers.

Kopech was the same guy in both places he just got different results. That's baseball sometimes.

36 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Do you actually think the Dodgers changed something dramatic about kopech in a couple days? 

He's a bullpen arm who was certainly capable of having a nice 24 inning stretch. 

It's amazing how much credit some of you give to coaches or analysts instead of the players themselves. 

That’s a pretty drastic change from where Kopech was at with the Sox last season (4.74 ERA, 1.35 WHIP in 43.2 IP).  If the Sox thought he could be that good for a 33 inning stretch and that they could be the team to “fix” him, they would have kept him and traded him next season rather than selling low and dumping him for peanuts.

Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.

Edited November 1, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

12 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

That’s a pretty drastic change from where Kopech was at with the Sox last season (4.74 ERA, 1.35 WHIP in 43.2 IP).  If the Sox thought he could be that good for a 33 inning stretch and that they could be the team to “fix” him, they would have kept him and traded him next season rather than selling low and dumping him for peanuts.

Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.

No the fact is the Dodgers had some small sample luck while his sox tenure had some small sample bad luck. 

He was the exact same pitcher in both places.

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No the fact is the Dodgers had some small sample luck while his sox tenure had some small sample bad luck. 

He was the exact same pitcher in both places.

I disagree that both 43.2 IP and 33 IP are small sample sizes for a reliever but agree to disagree.

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

That’s a pretty drastic change from where Kopech was at with the Sox last season (4.74 ERA in 43.2 IP).  If the Sox thought he could be that good for a 33 inning stretch and that they could be the team to “fix” him, they would have kept him and traded him next season rather than selling low and dumping him for peanuts.

Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.

You keep saying they sold him for peanuts because that’s what Vargas’ value looks like after the fact, but they legitimately thought they were getting a big piece back in Vargas.

That trade speaks more to their (likely) swing and miss on Vargas than it does to what they thought of Kopech.

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I disagree that both 43.2 IP and 33 IP are small sample sizes for a reliever but agree to disagree.

You disagree that 33 IP is a small sample? What?

It doesn't matter what his position is, sample size is predicated on statistical boundaries not area-specific determinants.

33 IP's in the scheme of baseball is obviously a small sample as it's impact on future performance/expectations is less than 3%, even for a reliever.

What I find fascinating about you is you love to cite data/stats, but then when the data clearly dispels your anti-Sox conclusions, you decide that you disagree with it in those cases.

WSox2023 will be the first to tell you a Sox player sucks and is being lucky because he has a low BABIP, but when a guy leaves the Sox to go elsewhere and has a low BABIP driving success, WSox2023 tells us that it's sustainable in those cases.

Edited November 1, 20241 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

8 minutes ago, Snopek said:

You keep saying they sold him for peanuts because that’s what Vargas’ value looks like after the fact, but they legitimately thought they were getting a big piece back in Vargas.

That trade speaks more to their (likely) swing and miss on Vargas than it does to what they thought of Kopech.

Vargas was already terrible with the Dodgers in 434 plate appearances across three seasons.  It’s not like he was a fresh and still hyped up prospect without any major league time.  Getz took the scraps that the Dodgers offered him, and chose poorly as he usually does in his trades.

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You disagree that 33 IP is a small sample? What?

It doesn't matter what his position is, sample size is predicated on statistical boundaries not area-specific determinants.

33 IP's in the scheme of baseball is obviously a small sample as it's impact on future performance/expectations is less than 3%, even for a reliever.

What I find fascinating about you is you love to cite data/stats, but then when the data clearly dispels your anti-Sox conclusions, you decide that you disagree with it in those cases.

WSox2023 will be the first to tell you a Sox player sucks and is being lucky because he has a low BABIP, but when a guy leaves the Sox to go elsewhere and has a low BABIP driving success, WSox2023 tells us that it's sustainable in those cases.

“Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.”

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You disagree that 33 IP is a small sample? What?

It doesn't matter what his position is, sample size is predicated on statistical boundaries not area-specific determinants.

33 IP's in the scheme of baseball is obviously a small sample as it's impact on future performance/expectations is less than 3%, even for a reliever.

And one of the reasons relievers are considered so volatile year to year is that they’re working within the constraints of relatively small sample sizes by nature.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.”

You saying it's a fact doesn't make it so. Hope that clears that up!

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Maybe he still is the same guy, but the simple fact is that the Dodgers got the best out of him.  The Sox didn’t.”

Kopech strikes me as the kind of guy who mentally checked out with the Sox and then turned it up to 11 when he was dealt to an actual premiere organization. 

Feels like the same situation with Luis Robert unfortunately, he looks like he would rather be doing anything else than playing for the White Sox.

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Vargas was already terrible with the Dodgers in 434 plate appearances across three seasons.  It’s not like he was a fresh and still hyped up prospect without any major league time.  Getz took the scraps that the Dodgers offered him, and chose poorly as he usually does in his trades.

If you’re saying that Getz knew Vargas was “scraps”, you’re giving him way too much credit.

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You saying it's a fact doesn't make it so. Hope that clears that up!

It is a fact that Kopech put up better stats with the Dodgers than the Sox last year.  That is clear and irrefutable.

7 minutes ago, Snopek said:

If you’re saying that Getz knew Vargas was “scraps”, you’re giving him way too much credit.

Getz is an expert at acquiring scraps — Maldonado, Lopez, Fletcher, Vargas, etc.

Edited November 1, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

11 minutes ago, T R U said:

Kopech strikes me as the kind of guy who mentally checked out with the Sox and then turned it up to 11 when he was dealt to an actual premiere organization. 

Feels like the same situation with Luis Robert unfortunately, he looks like he would rather be doing anything else than playing for the White Sox.

But this is also not shown in any data.

Kopech actually threw more first pitch strikes, threw more strikes generally speaking, got more called and swinging strikes and etc with the Sox than he did with the Dodgers. He lived in the same spots in the strike zone, his release point was unchanged. There were no mechanical corrections or pitch-mix changes.

While it's easy to say maybe he tried harder or etc, that also implies that Kopech had something extra the Sox couldn't get out of him and that's just not shown in any of the data anywhere.

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It is a fact that Kopech put up better stats with the Dodgers than the Sox last year.  That is clear and irrefutable.

You can't argue with any of the actual facts so you'll stick to this small sample size noise. Got it. Glad we could confirm that you're as irrational as those who you critique on this board endlessly.

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

To follow up quickly on the above, I want to dispel the notion that Kopech was saved by the Dodgers.

The difference between Dodgers and White Sox Kopech came down to a few things:

Kopech had a 167 BABIP against with the Dodgers vs 284 with the Sox. Kopech had an LOB% of 90% when his career average is around 77% which is around league average. Historically he's HR/FB ratio was 14% and with the Dodgers is was 4%. None of those things are sustainable nor are they adjustments that the Dodgers made to Kopech.

His pitch mix was basically unchanged - he threw his slider 2% more and his fastball 2% less, but the White Sox were actually the org that scrapped the Curve and the slider generally this year and told him to throw more fastballs. The fastball itself actually had slightly more quality with the Sox than it did with the Dodgers.

Kopech was the same guy in both places he just got different results. That's baseball sometimes.

 

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You can't argue with any of the actual facts so you'll stick to this small sample size noise. Got it. Glad we could confirm that you're as irrational as those who you critique on this board endlessly.

So your evidence that Kopech is the same ole pitcher is that he had better stats with the Dodgers, threw his fastball less, slider more and "that's just not sustainable"

Is that the argument I'm reading?

He clearly was a better player with the Dodgers. 12 innings of work, you can maybe argue is a sample size. Or maybe "He hadn't pitched all year, came back a week before being traded and here we are". 

You are arguing that he's the same pitcher with evidence, literally pointing to the contrary.

Venable speaking on espn 1000 all but confirming Grady will be apart of his staff 

5 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

Venable speaking on espn 1000 all but confirming Grady will be apart of his staff 

Awesome.  Thanks for sharing this news.

Grady deserves a shot as a bench coach.  It’s apparent he wants a career in baseball after taking that a $15-an-hour internship with the D-backs.

33 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz is an expert at acquiring scraps — Maldonado, Lopez, Fletcher, Vargas, etc.

That’s completely not the point. Two of those guys have “scrap” level ceilings, while the other two were acquired with much higher ceilings in mind.

The fact that they are all likely to end up as scraps is irrelevant to the initial point, which was that Getz did not “dump Kopech for peanuts” because he thought he was getting much much more than that in Vargas.

Where’s @Jack Parkman been?  He knew Kopech stats inside and out.

17 hours ago, The Grinder said:

I'd like to know too. And how does it differ from bench coach? IIRC wasn't Harold bench coach,? When he wasn't sleeping 😁

 

After the explanation, I’m thinking it’s one of those meaningless titles to make people feel better about their role. Like a company having 500 vice presidents. A distinction without a difference.

This is not me trashing Venable either.

16 hours ago, hi8is said:

I didn’t see much energy 😆 Perhaps they did show some and I just did not watch said game… that’s one thing I’m forgetting here… I didn’t watch games last year with nearly as much frequency.

ALL of the games I did watch however, they looked dead.

They really jogged out those grounders.