White Sox projected at a $67.1 million OD payroll, 29th in all of MLB

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

List all the premium free agents he has signed...

The answer is just one, Albert Belle.

Which was a big F U to other owners he thought were out of control like Steinbrenner and a shot across the MLBPA's bow moreso than anything.

Although Fisk, Dunn and Hendriks would be possible responses as well.

JR signed Albert Belle. But that was bad. He signed Adam Dunn. But that was bad. He signed Benintendi for more money and years than he was worth just to prove he wanted to win. But that was bad. He signed Grandal, the catcher the data-nerds crushed on. But that was bad. They traded for a top closer in Kimbrel. But that was bad. I'm sure you can explain why the Fisk signing was bad, too. C'mon, I know you have it in you. 

Can you explain to me why a big F U to other owners is bad? Aren't the Dodgers jamming it up and breaking it off in the rest of the owners with their payroll manipulations? 

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

He may start to win people over when he signs a player to a contract over $100 million, you know, like every other franchise 

No, he won't. The wheels have already been installed on the goalposts for the eruption of whining when JR inks that first $100M free agent. You just did it, there. 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

JR signed Albert Belle. But that was bad. He signed Adam Dunn. But that was bad. He signed Benintendi for more money and years than he was worth just to prove he wanted to win. But that was bad. He signed Grandal, the catcher the data-nerds crushed on. But that was bad. They traded for a top closer in Kimbrel. But that was bad. I'm sure you can explain why the Fisk signing was bad, too. C'mon, I know you have it in you. 

Can you explain to me why a big F U to other owners is bad? Aren't the Dodgers jamming it up and breaking it off in the rest of the owners with their payroll manipulations? 

Dodgers are following the rules and creating their own along?the way until someone stops them.

Fisk was great...but that was forty years ago and he still identified more with Boston than the Sox despite more games w/ Chicago because of the way he was treated by Harrelson and JR.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But the A's...well they're technically sold out for the season in Sacramnto, are in the Top 10-12 teams for new spending this offseason and are showing up on a growing number of playoff prediction lists.

Now, pretend JR is the owner of the As and did the same thing. You would be crowing about how JR had to spend that money, or he'd lose the league profit-sharing, thus, making that spending bad. I couldn't give a s%*# about how much people b**** about Reinsdorf and this team. You keep trying to argue both sides of the argument. You can't say that JR never spends, except that one time when he was doing it out of spite. Oh, and that one time he did it to prove another point. Oh, and that other time he did because it was a no brainer. 

[WestEddy]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You mean like Dick Allen here?

That was only 22 years of support though...doesn't qualify as a true fan.

 

And sex slaves to JR?  Well, that conjures up such a lovely vision.  Sounds more like a PizzaGate conspiracy theory.

Aiyo.

What would kneeling down and licking boots be, to you? A healthy dynamic relationship? Some mods, here, accuse any positive people of that. 

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Dodgers are following the rules and creating their own along?the way until someone stops them.

Fisk was great...but that was forty years ago and he still identified more with Boston than the Sox despite more games w/ Chicago because of the way he was treated by Harrelson and JR.

I knew you could pull a negative out of the Fisk signing. Good boy!!

But Reinsdorf wasn't "following the rules" and "creating his own" along the way? I really need for you to explain to me why the Belle signing was bad, bad, bad. You listed it as such. Like, we should all bow our heads in shame. And lick more boots. 

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I knew you could pull a negative out of the Fisk signing. Good boy!!

But Reinsdorf wasn't "following the rules" and "creating his own" along the way? I really need for you to explain to me why the Belle signing was bad, bad, bad. You listed it as such. Like, we should all bow our heads in shame. And lick more boots. 

It wasn't about building a winning, sustainable team with excellent chemistry...that much is for sure.

[Tony]

43 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Now, pretend JR is the owner of the As and did the same thing. You would be crowing about how JR had to spend that money, or he'd lose the league profit-sharing, thus, making that spending bad. I couldn't give a s%*# about how much people b**** about Reinsdorf and this team. You keep trying to argue both sides of the argument. You can't say that JR never spends, except that one time when he was doing it out of spite. Oh, and that one time he did it to prove another point. Oh, and that other time he did because it was a no brainer. 

lol, who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, tray said:

I am not an authority or arbiter of fandom, but, by definition, a sports fan is an ardent and enthusiastic supporter of a team. If you choose to withdraw your support, which some suggest they will do, you are by definition, not a fan of the team. Some have even suggested they are the opposite - that they hope for failure of the team and will not attend games. That nonsense only hurts current fans who support the team and young pitchers and players trying to motivate to win games for the WSox and us, the fan base. I don't know where the foolhardy notion that not spending a dime to support Jerry Reinsdorf came from, but it is selfish, stupid (and maybe worse if it includes personal hatred for the owner, as in, he is cheap). Just a few years ago many so-called current fans were all in on the team when the WSox added Grandal to what looked to be a strong line-up. Things didn't work out and some just bailed on the team. The historic losing season invited sarcastic trolls, cub fans, know-it-alls, and big mouths to claim that they only now have withdrawn support for the team. I understand what happened with multiple key (and some expensive) players disappointing us. I largely blame Ken Williams and Rick Hahn for putting together those teams, as did the ownership, which is why Hahn and KW were fired.

IMO our new GM, Manager and all the young pitchers and players deserve a fvking break from fans and their fvking support, especially before the first game of Spring training begins.  Whoever claimed that somehow hurting Reinsdorf will have any positive impact on the team now or in the future sold you on a stupid idea.

This entire post is a long winded justification to you acting like you are better than everyone else and get to gatekeep every one else who doesn't.  With all due respect, I don't know why you think this is your job, but lecturing people after the worst season in the history of baseball is the ultimate in entitlement. 

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It wasn't about building a winning, sustainable team with excellent chemistry...that much is for sure.

Oh, okay. So the largest contract in MLB history, at the time, wasn't good, because it was only about winning, not winning in a happy, fulfilled way. 

If Reinsdorf sells, and the next owner starts signing big names, I'll await your biometric charts on happiness of the signings until I feel good about them. 

 

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This entire post is a long winded justification to you acting like you are better than everyone else and get to gatekeep every one else who doesn't.  With all due respect, I don't know why you think this is your job, but lecturing people after the worst season in the history of baseball is the ultimate in entitlement. 

Maybe as a fellow lecturer, you can put together a symposium on why some opinions about sports' teams are better than others. 

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, Tony said:

lol, who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? 

You seem to view life as a binary of "trying to fool people and succeeding", and "trying to fool people and failing". Yes, there is negativity. Yes, it is sometimes irksome. My issue is with comments like yours that tell the story of a lie, all in one sentence, where you pretend there is a move that might start to assuage the anger, but your setup hints at pulling the rug as soon as it may happen. 

[Tony]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

You seem to view life as a binary of "trying to fool people and succeeding", and "trying to fool people and failing". Yes, there is negativity. Yes, it is sometimes irksome. My issue is with comments like yours that tell the story of a lie, all in one sentence, where you pretend there is a move that might start to assuage the anger, but your setup hints at pulling the rug as soon as it may happen. 

1. You have no idea what the response of the fan base would be if they signed a prime Bryce Harper, or Aaron Judge, or Juan Soto. Partly because there is literally no history of it to speak of. 

2. Conversely, there is a TON of history, on this site, of you caring very much what people think, and turning them into 12 page threads with the same arguments about Getz, Jerry, Donald Lucy and a host of others. So when you puff your chest and say “I couldn’t give a s%*# about how much people b**** about Reinsdorf and this team” I’m absolutely going to call bullshit on that one, because it’s objectively false, as much as you want to tell everyone it’s not. If your statement was true, you’d have about 1/8 of the post volume you have here. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Maybe as a fellow lecturer, you can put together a symposium on why some opinions about sports' teams are better than others. 

Ask Tray, he's the one excluding people. 

[WestEddy]

30 minutes ago, Tony said:

1. You have no idea what the response of the fan base would be if they signed a prime Bryce Harper, or Aaron Judge, or Juan Soto. Partly because there is literally no history of it to speak of. 

2. Conversely, there is a TON of history, on this site, of you caring very much what people think, and turning them into 12 page threads with the same arguments about Getz, Jerry, Donald Lucy and a host of others. So when you puff your chest and say “I couldn’t give a s%*# about how much people b**** about Reinsdorf and this team” I’m absolutely going to call bullshit on that one, because it’s objectively false, as much as you want to tell everyone it’s not. If your statement was true, you’d have about 1/8 of the post volume you have here. 

1. This is a weird attack. We all have a general idea how a fan base would react to a big signing. Fisk, Seaver and Belle were acquisitions like that. Are you saying that White Sox fandom is unique from all other fanbases in the country, or even in Chicago?

2. The 12 page threads are pretty much drive-by nonsense, and me saying the same thing over and over, to moderators deliberately misinterpreting it for their own joy. 

Me giving a s%*# is pretty much limited to me making a statement, and then the odd comment coming at me with "oh, so your saying...." with some purposeful misinterpretation, then my good faith clarification. All I have to wait for, now, is SS2k5 to come barreling in and accusing me of "whining" just because I answered your comment in earnest. 

I find common ground with most people disgusted with the current state of the team. The people who blame me for not hating JR as vociferously as they do are the ones I have issue with.

Edited February 2 by WestEddy

[Tony]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

1. This is a weird attack. We all have a general idea how a fan base would react to a big signing. Fisk, Seaver and Belle were acquisitions like that. Are you saying that White Sox fandom is unique from all other fanbases in the country, or even in Chicago?

2. The 12 page threads are pretty much drive-by nonsense, and me saying the same thing over and over, to moderators deliberately misinterpreting it for their own joy. 

Me giving a s%*# is pretty much limited to me making a statement, and then the odd comment coming at me with "oh, so your saying...." with some purposeful misinterpretation, then my good faith clarification. All I have to wait for, now, is SS2k5 to come barreling in and accusing me of "whining" just because I answered your comment in earnest. 

I find common ground with most people disgusted with the current state of the team. The people who blame me for not hating JR as vociferously as they do are the ones I have issue with.

That’s a lot of words to say your comment was wrong and you do, in fact, give a s%*#. 

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

That’s a lot of words to say your comment was wrong and you do, in fact, give a s%*#. 

Willful misrepresentation, as if right on cue. You could do a lot to pare down these 12 page back-and-forths by not pretending to be too thick to understand what the words I used mean. 

[Tony]

4 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Willful misrepresentation, as if right on cue. You could do a lot to pare down these 12 page back-and-forths by not pretending to be too thick to understand what the words I used mean. 

But that’s just it. And what MANY of us have tried to explain to you. 

You THINK you’re smarter than everyone here, but we all have eyes and brains, and have come to conclusion that’s simply not the case. 

See, in your post defending Jerry, you listed out signings like Adam Dunn, Andrew Benintendi, Grandal, Kimbrel…there is a pretty common theme there, which I’m sure even you could spot. Grandal was probably the best one, and he produced a total of 2.5 WAR over 4 years. 73 million for 2.5 WAR. 

Now, Jerry isn’t the one acquiring the players. But he is responsible for employing the FO who have the job of player acquisition, and has a nasty little habit with both his teams of keeping executives FAR past their expiration dates.  

But you used the term “willful misrepresentation” in your last post, which again seems fitting given this notion that fans will be upset at Jerry for anything, even if he signs a player to a $100 million dollar contract.  Again, this narrative the fan is in the wrong, not Jerry & the White Sox. A franchise that set the MLB record in futility in 2024 and currently, Vegas odds have the Sox O/U set at 51 wins for 2025, by far the lowest win total in the league. Oh, and 2023 saw them post a robust 61-101 record.

If the Vegas odds come true, from 2023-2025, the White Sox will go 153-333. And I really don’t think anyone needs a history lesson on the last 15 years of White Sox baseball. 

So maybe fans do have a little more to gripe about with the owner of the White Sox than just contract value. But I’m just guessing. 

 

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

But that’s just it. And what MANY of us have tried to explain to you. 

You THINK you’re smarter than everyone here, but we all have eyes and brains, and have come to conclusion that’s simply not the case. 

See, in your post defending Jerry, you listed out signings like Adam Dunn, Andrew Benintendi, Grandal, Kimbrel…there is a pretty common theme there, which I’m sure even you could spot. Grandal was probably the best one, and he produced a total of 2.5 WAR over 4 years. 73 million for 2.5 WAR. 

Now, Jerry isn’t the one acquiring the players. But he is responsible for employing the FO who have the job of player acquisition, and has a nasty little habit with both his teams of keeping executives FAR past their expiration dates.  

But you used the term “willful misrepresentation” in your last post, which again seems fitting given this notion that fans will be upset at Jerry for anything, even if he signs a player to a $100 million dollar contract.  Again, this narrative the fan is in the wrong, not Jerry & the White Sox. A franchise that set the MLB record in futility in 2024 and currently, Vegas odds have the Sox O/U set at 51 wins for 2025, by far the lowest win total in the league. Oh, and 2023 saw them post a robust 61-101 record.

If the Vegas odds come true, from 2023-2025, the White Sox will go 153-333. And I really don’t think anyone needs a history lesson on the last 15 years of White Sox baseball. 

So maybe fans do have a little more to gripe about with the owner of the White Sox than just contract value. But I’m just guessing. 

 

After literally the worst season in the 125 year history of MLB the only "willful misrepresentation" going on here is the gaslighting of fed up fans masquerading as friendly advice .

[Tony]

48 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

After literally the worst season in the 125 year history of MLB the only "willful misrepresentation" going on here is the gaslighting of fed up fans masquerading as friendly advice .

I’m just tired of having the same “debate” over and over again, and hand up, that’s on me more than anyone. 
 

But when I look at the state this city is in right now across the sports landscape, seeing an owner like Jerry have actual “fans” come to his defense with “Ugh, no matter what he does, you guys will always be unhappy with him!” Just boggles the mind. And I suppose in some ways, the statement is correct. No matter what Jerry does with his two teams, fans DO find a way to be upset….

Since end of the 2014-15 season…
Bulls have 330-428 record (.435) 
25th in NBA.

Sox 666-851 record (.439). 
2nd worst in MLB ahead of only the Marlins at .435. 

Jerry’s teams are a combined  996-1279
 

But the fans are the assholes. 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, Tony said:

I’m just tired of having the same “debate” over and over again, and hand up, that’s on me more than anyone. 
 

But when I look at the state this city is in right now across the sports landscape, seeing an owner like Jerry have actual “fans” come to his defense with “Ugh, no matter what he does, you guys will always be unhappy with him!” Just boggles the mind. And I suppose in some ways, the statement is correct. No matter what Jerry does with his two teams, fans DO find a way to be upset….

Since end of the 2014-15 season…
Bulls have 330-428 record (.435) 
25th in NBA.

Sox 666-851 record (.439). 
2nd worst in MLB ahead of only the Marlins at .435. 

Jerry’s teams are a combined  996-1279
 

But the fans are the assholes. 

Remember when we (and KW/JR via proxy) used to blame the fans for lower attendance dragging down payroll?

That's no longer an easily defensible position...except for 3 specific posters and PTAC/Texsox.

Then recently, JR's crap about the lack of 3 million attendance years when that's literally impossible to achieve with a big chunk of the upper deck cut off.

We're a lot closer to one million than three million right now, anyway...especially actual butts in the seats numbers.

Edited February 3 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

lol, who are you trying to fool here? Yourself? 

Ok, I'll back up to this one. The whole context was

 

12 minutes ago, Tony said:

I’m just tired of having the same “debate” over and over again, and hand up, that’s on me more than anyone. 
 

But when I look at the state this city is in right now across the sports landscape, seeing an owner like Jerry have actual “fans” come to his defense with “Ugh, no matter what he does, you guys will always be unhappy with him!” Just boggles the mind. And I suppose in some ways, the statement is correct. No matter what Jerry does with his two teams, fans DO find a way to be upset….

Since end of the 2014-15 season…
Bulls have 330-428 record (.435) 
25th in NBA.

Sox 666-851 record (.439). 
2nd worst in MLB ahead of only the Marlins at .435. 

Jerry’s teams are a combined  996-1279
 

But the fans are the assholes. 

And you walked into a single sentence of me responding to Caulfield's new pet troll, touting Oakland's spending. 

I agree with you. The Sox and Bulls have sucked for the past decade, 15 years for the Sox. I also agree that Reinsdorf is the problem. Machado is a perfect microcosm. "Let's be cute, hear him ask for $300M, and we'll creep up to $290 in incentives, etc."

I don't agree with Tray's take that if you don't go to games and buy hats, you're not a fan. 

 

[Kyyle23]

17 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Is calling somebody a "boot-licker" an explanation of something? 

In this scenario the idea that we must all declare absolute fealty to this organization otherwise we are not to be considered fans of the organization, and at the same time considering yourself to be better than those who question what’s happening or have dissatisfaction with the results, and also telling those people they must just be happy with the team they are provided I would consider that a bootlicker, yes.  
 

Definitions vary but in Trays time here all he has done has defended Reinsdorf at pretty much every turn while acting like fans playing the one card they actually have to play, financial support, is somehow beyond the pale for him and makes anyone less of a fan to him.  Well, if that’s how he feels about me and others who aren’t happy with the ownership, I guess he is just gonna have to deal with it

[tray]

13 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I don't agree with Tray's take that if you don't go to games and buy hats, you're not a fan. 

 

No problem with anyone who chooses to not wear a Sox hat or go to games or switch allegiance to the Cubs. That said, comments like  "I am never giving another dime to Reinsdorf " (just as one example) go beyond that.  I am not surprised by the animosity, vindictiveness and even an apparent need for retribution by some, even in a sports setting.  It is something that has unfortunately become more common in our society.

 

[southsider2k5]

13 hours ago, Tony said:

I’m just tired of having the same “debate” over and over again, and hand up, that’s on me more than anyone. 
 

But when I look at the state this city is in right now across the sports landscape, seeing an owner like Jerry have actual “fans” come to his defense with “Ugh, no matter what he does, you guys will always be unhappy with him!” Just boggles the mind. And I suppose in some ways, the statement is correct. No matter what Jerry does with his two teams, fans DO find a way to be upset….

Since end of the 2014-15 season…
Bulls have 330-428 record (.435) 
25th in NBA.

Sox 666-851 record (.439). 
2nd worst in MLB ahead of only the Marlins at .435. 

Jerry’s teams are a combined  996-1279
 

But the fans are the assholes. 

Look, some fans, sure they will be upset all of the time.  But the idea that this is some kind of unjustified because we just haven't given this a fair chance is absurd.  It's been nearly 50 years of this ownership group and it's style of operation.  We have moved the pieces around before, and been told all of these same blue sky claims of just wait and see.  We heard it with Kenny, and we heard it with Rick, who were both way more experience and successful in the jobs they had previously done.  Kenny at least won something.  Since then?  Yeah.