2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Then you're actually okay being lied to if a team is 5 games over .500?

I mean you are here lying to us for free.

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So no one for years?

I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say that "people here are constantly talking about the white flag trade". Answer your own question. It's got nothing to do with me. My point was about people getting mad when Reinsdorf was brutally honest. 

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

I don't think enough people understand this. Many on here are saying that the Sox lied to them about the team. Which is true but would the reaction been any different if they were honest?

If they came out and said we are purposely going to tear the team down and lose, people would have reacted the same way. JR is cheap and doesn't  have a clue how to run an organization. Very few teams are going to say they are purposely going to lose. But fans know when it's happening. 

We'll just need to see how this version turns out.

I think it was plausible that the team last year could’ve been better than the previous season. It was one possible outcome. I guess it was predicated on Robert, moncada, Benintendi, Eloy, etc. staying healthy and playing to their potential. And Vaughn, Ramos, Sosa, whoever taking a step forward. Which obviously didn’t happen.  But it wouldn’t have necessarily been wild if Eloy/Moncada were 3WAR players. 
 

I mean I admittedly expected better and was bamboozled. But also not surprised or particularly disappointed. 

22 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The entire season up to the trade, the Sox never got more than 5 games over .500. Sure, I'll give you outrage over giving up. Thus, "White Flag". 

But my main point, which you're proving, is that people are still mad about that trade, and Reinsdorf's comments about it, which was him being honest. There really isn't an argument, here. 

Up to that point, Robin Ventura had been back for 7 games.  Again, you lied and said people were mad at JR for telling the truth. That just isn’t true.

There’s so much JR content to choose from. No need to be provincial 

35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Up to that point, Robin Ventura had been back for 7 games.  Again, you lied and said people were mad at JR for telling the truth. That just isn’t true.

They were. There was an entire interview, not just one sentence on a tape loop. I suppose you're using the rare definition of "lied" which is "WestEddy is nailing his point, again, and I don't like it".

And I said they were mad at him for being honest. You're really, you're lying. 

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by WestEddy

37 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say that "people here are constantly talking about the white flag trade". Answer your own question. It's got nothing to do with me. My point was about people getting mad when Reinsdorf was brutally honest. 

That's what I figured. This is another one of your made up things that you can't actually back up.  The idea that Jerry has to lie because he said something stupid 30 years ago so now he just automatically lies to protect himself is absurd. 

40 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

They were. There was an entire interview, not just one sentence on a tape loop. I suppose you're using the rare definition of "lied" which is "WestEddy is nailing his point, again, and I don't like it".

And I said they were mad at him for being honest. You're really, you're lying. 

No. They were mad he gave up.  And the poster who brought up the White Flag trade was you in an effort to show fans will criticize JR no matter what. But it wasn't for what you tried to spin it.

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by Dick Allen

18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

No. They were mad he gave up.  And the poster who brought up the White Flag trade was you in an effort to show fans will criticize JR no matter what. But it wasn't for what you tried to spin it.

Let me lay it out for you in more nuanced terms. Reinsdorf gave an interview right after that trade. He was honest, and people reacted to that. Yes, people were mad he gave up, some were mad he insulted them, and some were angry that he said they wouldn't catch Cleveland. 

As Reinsdorf gets older, he's restricted access to him. Maybe it's people around him sensing less of a filter, or "remember what happened in '97". But I can certainly see the brains of the organization thinking, "just blow smoke up their ass and let's get busy". 

I'm sorry that you will dig in and disagree no matter what I say. If you can prove that zero people on Earth were angry about Reinsdorf saying we couldn't catch Cleveland, then you'll be right. Otherwise, you're wrong. 

Added - and yes, everybody hated Reinsdorf after the strike. There was nothing he could do short of multiple World Series victories that would change that. 

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by WestEddy

No team in MLB history had ever given up with that much season left to play and trailing by less than five games...JR loves making history, after all.

He gave Albert Belle the biggest contract in baseball...to prove a point to other owners.  Fortunately for him he got nailed out of that one by Baltimore.

 

Let's be honest.

He just didn't want to pay Alvarez and Hernandez any longer because he thought they were underperforming.

Edited January 26, 20251 yr by caulfield12

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Let me lay it out for you in more nuanced terms. Reinsdorf gave an interview right after that trade. He was honest, and people reacted to that. Yes, people were mad he gave up, some were mad he insulted them, and some were angry that he said they wouldn't catch Cleveland. 

As Reinsdorf gets older, he's restricted access to him. Maybe it's people around him sensing less of a filter, or "remember what happened in '97". But I can certainly see the brains of the organization thinking, "just blow smoke up their ass and let's get busy". 

I'm sorry that you will dig in and disagree no matter what I say. If you can prove that zero people on Earth were angry about Reinsdorf saying we couldn't catch Cleveland, then you'll be right. Otherwise, you're wrong. 

Added - and yes, everybody hated Reinsdorf after the strike. There was nothing he could do short of multiple World Series victories that would change that. 

So now he has to lie to protect himself is one helluva branch to be out on.

6 hours ago, ptatc said:

I don't think enough people understand this. Many on here are saying that the Sox lied to them about the team. Which is true but would the reaction been any different if they were honest?

If they came out and said we are purposely going to tear the team down and lose, people would have reacted the same way. JR is cheap and doesn't  have a clue how to run an organization. Very few teams are going to say they are purposely going to lose. But fans know when it's happening. 

We'll just need to see how this version turns out.

History has already proven this out as the truth.

And if it’s so obvious to all the fans, why lie about it?  It just makes the fans think that their owner and GM are treating them like idiots.

2 hours ago, 2Deep said:

Are we really defending Jerry?

Amazing, isn’t it?  The very reason Sox fans have endured suckfest after suckfest teams.

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Let me lay it out for you in more nuanced terms. Reinsdorf gave an interview right after that trade. He was honest, and people reacted to that. Yes, people were mad he gave up, some were mad he insulted them, and some were angry that he said they wouldn't catch Cleveland. 

As Reinsdorf gets older, he's restricted access to him. Maybe it's people around him sensing less of a filter, or "remember what happened in '97". But I can certainly see the brains of the organization thinking, "just blow smoke up their ass and let's get busy". 

I'm sorry that you will dig in and disagree no matter what I say. If you can prove that zero people on Earth were angry about Reinsdorf saying we couldn't catch Cleveland, then you'll be right. Otherwise, you're wrong. 

Added - and yes, everybody hated Reinsdorf after the strike. There was nothing he could do short of multiple World Series victories that would

PT Barnum would have cleaned you out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

PT Barnum would have cleaned you out.

It's baseball, dude. I don't follow so I have something to grouse about. 

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's baseball, dude. I don't follow so I have something to grouse about. 

So instead you follow what other people are saying about baseball so you can grouse about what they are saying, but somehow that is better?

21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So instead you follow what other people are saying about baseball so you can grouse about what they are saying, but somehow that is better?

Don’t forget about all the effort in trying to justify every move Getz makes no matter how questionable.

13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Don’t forget about all the effort in trying to justify every move Getz makes no matter how questionable.

Not sure he could admit to a single mistake...

Jerry is a loser. We don’t need special reasons to hate him other than the fact that he is a lousy,  dirty, yella, filthy animal loser.

17 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Jerry is a loser. We don’t need special reasons to hate him other than the fact that he is a lousy,  dirty, yella, filthy animal loser.

Very sad baseball hasn't commented on the Sox disgraceful treatment of its fans in not trying to win. It's disgusting to look at this roster. And it's not like the guys we're waiting on in the minors are THAT great. We're waiting on some good prospects, whoopie! Are they really elite?

10 hours ago, ptatc said:

I don't think enough people understand this. Many on here are saying that the Sox lied to them about the team. Which is true but would the reaction been any different if they were honest?

If they came out and said we are purposely going to tear the team down and lose, people would have reacted the same way. JR is cheap and doesn't  have a clue how to run an organization. Very few teams are going to say they are purposely going to lose. But fans know when it's happening. 

We'll just need to see how this version turns out.

This isn’t true. You’re acting like it’s 1985. Sports fans have become conditioned to “rebuilds” in most sports leagues. Not saying it’s the way it should be, but it is. 

Look at the Bulls. They have literally been playing the same season for the last 3+ years, being 4-5 games under .500, with not even the smartest basketball minds able to figure out what their long term plan is. It’s totally hopeless. 

The Blackhawks are terrible, but at least with the Hawks, you understand the mission. Stan Bowman, like Kenny and Rick, was retained far too long. The veteran core continued to rot year after year and players weren’t being developed. When Davidson was finally brought in, fans were excited for a fresh voice and new vision. And he was fairly clear with fans that in order to fix this, they had to bottom out. And it was for a chance to land a generational type player. Which they accomplished. This year has been a disappointment for the Hawks, but they still feature one of the best prospect pools in the league and the future still looks bright. 

Championship Contender or Worst Team in the League..fans want to know there is a plan in place. What’s the plan? What am I watching right now? Are they trying to be awful, and if so, what’s the prize they are going after? People just want to know what the plan is. 
 

When you don’t have one, that’s when things get ugly. Transparency matters. 

 

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not sure he could admit to a single mistake...

I've criticized the Maldonado and Clevenger signings multiple times. Understanding why he did them isn't agreeing with or defending them. 

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've criticized the Maldonado and Clevenger signings multiple times. Understanding why he did them isn't agreeing with or defending them. 

But Fletcher was Barfield's fault and not trading intradivisionally with Fedde should be blamed on JR/"tradition".

35 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But Fletcher was Barfield's fault and not trading intradivisionally with Fedde should be blamed on JR/"tradition".

so what? Really sucks when you can't control what other people think, doesn't it?

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

History has already proven this out as the truth.

And if it’s so obvious to all the fans, why lie about it?  It just makes the fans think that their owner and GM are treating them like idiots.

Why lie about it? I think they will get in trouble with the union and probably the MLB if they come out and say it.

No team will just say "we suck and we are going to trade any talented players to purposely make our team worse " 

 

As you said we all know and they know it but they can't just say it.