JoeC Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 7 hours ago, ptatc said: No team will just say "we suck and we are going to trade any talented players to purposely make our team worse " You can say ". . . to restock our farm system and compete in 3 years," and it would be completely valid. Sucking is a side effect of having to rebuild - not the primary objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 12 minutes ago, JoeC said: You can say ". . . to restock our farm system and compete in 3 years," and it would be completely valid. Sucking is a side effect of having to rebuild - not the primary objective. Or 2-3 years just to be more rosily optimistic but not completely out of the really of possibility. 2027 is realistic depending on the progress of a Top 3 farm system. Belief in supplementing it with FA spending is the most elusive part, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 11 hours ago, WestEddy said: It's baseball, dude. I don't follow so I have something to grouse about. You spend most of your time grousing. I love the White Sox. Had season tickets over 30 years. 30 years, I've given them plenty of passes, but not anymore. Go back to the 2024 season prediction thread. We both predicted the exact same number. 41 wins bothered me, especially given the reasons we were told there was no search for a real GM. You couldn't care less. Not everyone is the same. Sorry you think my way is stupid. I think belng happy the team is the laughingstock of the league is stupid. Edited January 27 by Dick Allen 3 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: You spend most of your time grousing. I love the White Sox. Had season tickets over 30 years. 30 years, I've given them plenty of passes, but not anymore. Go back to the 2024 season prediction thread. We both predicted the exact same number. 41 wins bothered me, especially given the reasons we were told there was no search for a real GM. You couldn't care less. Not everyone is the same. Sorry you think my way is stupid. I think belng happy the team is the laughingstock of the league is stupid. The age-old Sox debate...which is worse, complaining or complaining about the complaining? Of course, if they didn't have one of the three worst records in baseball from 2013-2024...over a full decade now...there wouldn't be nearly AS MUCH to complain about. Like Cub fans...more obsessed with debating if the owner only cares about lining his pockets with profits and not actually winning. Oops. That sounds oddly familiar. Well, we don't even have the joy of "there's always next year" and annual spring predictions of first place from sports writers. It might be another two seasons before we can realistically aspire to even fourth place in the he division...which just might still be considered a success to JR. Edited January 27 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 hours ago, ptatc said: No team will just say "we suck and we are going to trade any talented players to purposely make our team worse " As you said we all know and they know it but they can't just say it. Of course no team would say that because team front offices aren’t made up of children. Why are we pretending like there’s not a professional and semi intelligent way to communicate this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 26 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The age-old Sox debate...which is worse, complaining or complaining about the complaining? Of course, if they didn't have one of the three worst records in baseball from 2013-2024...over a full decade now...there wouldn't be nearly AS MUCH to complain about. Like Cub fans...more obsessed with debating if the owner only cares about lining his pockets with profits and not actually winning. Oops. That sounds oddly familiar. Well, we don't even have the joy of "there's always next year" and annual spring predictions of first place from sports writers. It might be another two seasons before we can realistically aspire to even fourth place in the he division...which just might still be considered a success to JR. The sad part was, we were promised so much. 2020 was a revelation, however, we couldn't go to games, the playoffs were expanded, and if they played a full schedule, with the state of the pitching staff, the team would have probably been average, which was great at the time. 2021. they make the playoffs, but have obvious holes. We think this is just the beginning, but the reality was, it was the end. Now, we get to do it again. How fun. Just trust the White Sox. They know what they are doing. Just look at their track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Or 2-3 years just to be more rosily optimistic but not completely out of the really of possibility. 2027 is realistic depending on the progress of a Top 3 farm system. Belief in supplementing it with FA spending is the most elusive part, though. Yep.... and the "top 3 farm system" needs to restock and double down on player development funding and strategy to continually restock the top end of the farm without having to tear it down. Look at what teams like Cleveland and Tampa do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: You spend most of your time grousing. I love the White Sox. Had season tickets over 30 years. 30 years, I've given them plenty of passes, but not anymore. Go back to the 2024 season prediction thread. We both predicted the exact same number. 41 wins bothered me, especially given the reasons we were told there was no search for a real GM. You couldn't care less. Not everyone is the same. Sorry you think my way is stupid. I think belng happy the team is the laughingstock of the league is stupid. No, a team doesn't have to be a laughingstock when it is a rebuilding. A veteran presence is still needed although the veterans last year didn't show much leadership. Regardless, last season was the worst baseball I have ever seen, and fans shouldn't have to put up with that. Some fans on the board are attempting to guess when the Sox will be a good team. I can't see how anyone can do that. That makes it hard to be a fan. I have nothing against Getz but I ignore most of what he says. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: You spend most of your time grousing. I love the White Sox. Had season tickets over 30 years. 30 years, I've given them plenty of passes, but not anymore. Go back to the 2024 season prediction thread. We both predicted the exact same number. 41 wins bothered me, especially given the reasons we were told there was no search for a real GM. You couldn't care less. Not everyone is the same. Sorry you think my way is stupid. I think belng happy the team is the laughingstock of the league is stupid. I don't think "your way is stupid". I don't really subscribe to the concept of "laughingstock". Edited January 27 by WestEddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 People forget the white flag trade wasn’t the only element of the white flag. They also traded Harold for a bag of balls 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 19 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: People forget the white flag trade wasn’t the only element of the white flag. They also traded Harold for a bag of balls "people" didn't forget. It's just one person misusing it to make a non-existent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 21 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: People forget the white flag trade wasn’t the only element of the white flag. They also traded Harold for a bag of balls But Baines 1 for Alvarez/Sosa/Fletcher would have been an amazing trade had they been able to pry away Juan Gonzalez instead. Ofc, his career would eventually flame out in spectacular fashion too as he turned down that massive offer from the Tigers and went the way of Ruben Sierra. At that point, Baines was fading even further, reminiscent of the treatment of Frank Thomas at the end of his Sox career. Harold kept his disappointment internalized, however. Edited January 27 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: "people" didn't forget. It's just one person misusing it to make a non-existent point. I love semantic quibbles they are so valuable. Thanks for the response 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 8 hours ago, WestEddy said: I don't think "your way is stupid". I don't really subscribe to the concept of "laughingstock". Then the word has no meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: Then the word has no meaning. It definitely has meaning and it is in the dictionary. One guy’s weird opinion doesn’t make it not have meaning. ”Laughingstock of the league” It’s definitely a thing and the Sox are now the poster child for it. Edited January 28 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It definitely has meaning and it is in the dictionary. One guy’s weird opinion doesn’t make it not have meaning. ”Laughingstock of the league” It’s definitely a thing and the Sox are now the poster child for it. I don't believe a team that suffers injuries and misfortune and loses a lot of games deserves "mockery". That's not a "weird" opinion. Claiming that a certain player was clearly obtainable in a trade without even knowing what was offered - to the point where multiple people actively make fun of that - that's more what a laughingstock is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) 35 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I don't believe a team that suffers injuries and misfortune and loses a lot of games deserves "mockery". That's not a "weird" opinion. Claiming that a certain player was clearly obtainable in a trade without even knowing what was offered - to the point where multiple people actively make fun of that - that's more what a laughingstock is. We’ve already covered the second part of your post regarding the potential Twins/Fedde/Keaschall trade. I provided two sources that said it was on the table. You simply made up your own hypothesis on what happened because you have to defend Getz to the bitter end and justify the Vargas acquisition. Regarding the first part of your post… “COLUMN: The Chicago White Sox are the laughing stock of baseball“ Also, when your fans are chanting “SELL THE TEAM” to the owner live at their own fan fest, call me fucking crazy but your team may be a “laughingstock”. 🤣 You can have your opinion, but it is definitely in the minority. Edited January 28 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 9 hours ago, WestEddy said: I don't think "your way is stupid". I don't really subscribe to the concept of "laughingstock". A national columnist used that phrase exactly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) 51 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I don't believe a team that suffers injuries and misfortune and loses a lot of games deserves "mockery". That's not a "weird" opinion. Claiming that a certain player was clearly obtainable in a trade without even knowing what was offered - to the point where multiple people actively make fun of that - that's more what a laughingstock is. I mean, the team was going to be a laughingstock regardless of the misfortunes they suffered last year. From the second they hired Tony La Russa, all of the credibility and momentum and gusto that went into "multiple parades" territory went all out the window. The confidence in the team that it had built up was suddenly flipped upside down, from an outsider's perspective, and a pretty sizeable consensus of the non-Sox world was puzzled (at its most generous) by the hiring. The Hahn rebuild had good momentum going into the 2020-2021 offseason, then Jerry Jerryed it up by getting involved and doing it "his" way by hiring TLR. Fast forward to the tail end of the failed rebuild, and they fire Hahn and KW. Everyone's thinking "OK - this is the chance the Sox turn it around," then.... they promote Getz without a legitimate GM search, and the hiring is sold to us as someone who will lead a quick turnaround. In reality, it just showed that the Sox refuse to get out of their own way and will sit and try to slam the revolving door shut over and over again. The national media has called bullshit on this since day 1. Leaving aside my belief that "luck" in the case of the 2024 White Sox was as much "luck" as a rudderless ship helplessly drifting into a storm, the process that went into the 2024 White Sox, including the hype at the tail end of the pre-2020 rebuild, as well as the comedy of executive-level errors and missteps that followed, firmly planted the Sox into "laughingstock" territory that absolutely deserves mockery. Edited January 28 by JoeC 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 To clarify, the 2024 Sox were like a rudderless ship who drifted into the path of an oncoming storm, whereas anyone who was paying attention would have said "uh - guys? we should probably have a way to steer this ship, and has anyone checked the weather forecast lately?" Sure, it's "luck" that you drift into the storm, but the point is that the Sox have done so many things to shoot themselves in the foot that the bad "luck" of a linear 5~6 win subtraction kicks you outside of a standard distribution curve and wayyyy out beyond the bell curve. The Sox, with no misfortune, would have lost 100+ last year, in a year that the team tried to sell the public as being part of a quick turnaround, "not a rebuild," etc. So it's either: a) The Sox lied to us and knew they were going to be bad but tried to sell us otherwise to defend their decisions. This is funny, because nobody who'd been paying attention at all believed their bullshit. or b) The Sox believed that the team was going to be good. This is funny because... well... they were bad, and everyone who'd been paying attention knew it. Thus, in conclusion, the White Sox absolutely are, were, and would have been laughingstock regardless of their "luck" or "misfortune," and they are, in fact, laughingstocks because of the decisions they've made, and the manner in which they've made the decisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Sorry for the long posts - in front of a physical keyboard instead of a damn phone, and I actually have a little bit of time to myself. Boredom + stress + shitty White Sox team + access to keyboard = long posts from me, apparently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 40 minutes ago, JoeC said: To clarify, the 2024 Sox were like a rudderless ship who drifted into the path of an oncoming storm, whereas anyone who was paying attention would have said "uh - guys? we should probably have a way to steer this ship, and has anyone checked the weather forecast lately?" Sure, it's "luck" that you drift into the storm, but the point is that the Sox have done so many things to shoot themselves in the foot that the bad "luck" of a linear 5~6 win subtraction kicks you outside of a standard distribution curve and wayyyy out beyond the bell curve. The Sox, with no misfortune, would have lost 100+ last year, in a year that the team tried to sell the public as being part of a quick turnaround, "not a rebuild," etc. So it's either: a) The Sox lied to us and knew they were going to be bad but tried to sell us otherwise to defend their decisions. This is funny, because nobody who'd been paying attention at all believed their bullshit. or b) The Sox believed that the team was going to be good. This is funny because... well... they were bad, and everyone who'd been paying attention knew it. Thus, in conclusion, the White Sox absolutely are, were, and would have been laughingstock regardless of their "luck" or "misfortune," and they are, in fact, laughingstocks because of the decisions they've made, and the manner in which they've made the decisions. Or c) The Sox knew they were in trouble. There was no starting rotation or bullpen. They thought that plugging a few holes could get them in the same zip code of .500 where they could claim "roll of the dice", but the wheels fell off in the first 11 games, the axles then fell off, then Mad Max road pirates took anything else they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 7 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Or c) The Sox knew they were in trouble. There was no starting rotation or bullpen. They thought that plugging a few holes could get them in the same zip code of .500 where they could claim "roll of the dice", but the wheels fell off in the first 11 games, the axles then fell off, then Mad Max road pirates took anything else they had. See - I read that and I fail to see the difference between your "C" and my option "B." In both cases, the Sox couldn't see that they were bad. In either event, I don't think it changes my assertion that the Sox made themselves laughingstocks without the misfortune of bad luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Also, the fact that we're debating if our beloved team is a national laughingstock probably means that our beloved team is a national laughingstock. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 22 minutes ago, JoeC said: See - I read that and I fail to see the difference between your "C" and my option "B." In both cases, the Sox couldn't see that they were bad. In either event, I don't think it changes my assertion that the Sox made themselves laughingstocks without the misfortune of bad luck. Okay, sure. I'll agree to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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