5 minutes ago, T R U said:

No one expected a competitive team, we expected an actual hiring process to fix this mess of an organization and we didn't get it because the owner claimed he couldn't waste a year when that's what happened anyways.

As a fan I would be much more at peace with this thing if JR had just fired everyone who had a hand in this and said "Sorry, we can do better than this" and made an effort.

Because let's be honest here.  If we were ACTUALLY rebuilding from the ground up, Chris Getz would have been just as unemployed as everyone else responsible for this mess.

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

1. I'm not exactly sure what industry you are referring to, I'm assuming you mean other GM's in the league, and if that's the case....um, so what? And also...no you wouldn't. Using your logic, because Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams were here in 2005, they have earned lifetime contracts? They can never be fired? The architects of 2005 went 655-802 from 2011-2019. That should absolutely be enough to get canned, but because they won in 2005, they get to be here forever? 

2. When Chris Getz, or any industry executive gets in front of a microphone, they aren't speaking to the media. They are speaking to the fans, the media are just the vehicle for that communication, and that role has been significantly diminished  with social media and teams controlling more of their own messaging. The point is, there was, in my opinion, a failure to set fan expectation and made the job and mission more difficult for the White Sox. And could have been solved with a simple change in messaging. 

You are free to make any excuse you would like for Getz and the White Sox. "Yeah, but..." is very easy to do. 

I happen to believe organizational transparency is important and in most cases is well received. The original tweet of this thread, the quote from Getz..I think is the right message. I think he's getting better with quotes. I also believe saying "We're committed to building from the ground up" is a year too late.

I agree that it's critical to set fans' expectations. Spitting on Hahn and KW (and others) as they carry a cardboard box of their belongings out the door would resonate in subsequent hirings. You can play it down all you want, but there were baseball players who vowed to never play for the White Sox (Jim Edmonds, Curt Schilling) based on JR's labor stances. Jim Leyland wouldn't consider a job with the Sox for the way Gene Lamont was treated. It's naive to pretend that kicking executives out the door has no ramifications. I suppose I should insert the inverse of "defending Chris Getz" here. What would that be? Cub-fan?

Most of what you said was fine. But you added a line that everybody on this board would repeat ad infinitum had JR said it. I understand that if you admitted that, you would probably melt. 

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, you might like getting talked to like you are stupid, but most people don't.  If my kid gets up and lies to my face, I usually give them one chance to reconsider and offer them an out to stop digging the hole.  As often as this happens, they have either chose to keep lying to us, or were so completely disconnected from reality, they believed what they were saying.  Honestly, I am not even worse which is better, but neither is very good for a relationship with the fans.  Either get up and say you were wrong, or tell me the truth.

The entire advertising world speaks to you like you're stupid 24 hours a day. How many TeeVees do you go through in a month? Oh, you never break a TeeVee? Then you must love being talked to like you're stupid. 

Chris Getz just gave an interview on the REKAP podcast which was about as perfect an interview he could have given. And the usual suspects here clowned on it. 

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

“We have to make some adjustments to improve in 2024. … When I say I don’t like our team, we’ve got pieces that are talented and attractive and they can be part of a winning club, but obviously, we haven’t gone out there and performed. It’s not a well-rounded club right now. We have to find players to come in here and help get us in the right direction.”

“Yeah, we’re going to have to create runs,” Getz said. “We’re putting a lot on Marcus Thames and our hitting coaches to get the most out of these guys. But most importantly, I think these players are ready to go. They know the adjustments they need to make. It’s going to be a battle out there. And we’re gonna push these guys and we’re going to do everything we can to score runs.”

“The team does need to come together, they need to go out there and perform,” Getz said. “There’s no secret about that. But you know, that’s kind of the beauty of baseball, and there’s plenty of optimism going around with our club.”

 

I certainly don't think they were as forthcoming and transparent as they could have been...

It also doesn't jive with their actions last year.  If they REALLY thought this was a 110 loss team in the 2024 off-season, why the hell didn't they trade Luis Robert at his absolute peak value to try get players on this full rebuild timeline?  Either it is negligence by the GM, or he thought he could do something quick to win some games and get some good well.  Which is it?

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, fans expectations aren't equal to what we were told by management.  The fact that fans already knew this team would suck (well most of us did anyway) and they STILL tried to feed us the company line is what makes it even worse, not better.  This excuse doesn't help at all.  It makes the insult even more grave.

Getz's signings last winter certainly weren't "build from the ground up" moves. It was pretty clear that Getz thought some vets and some defense would have them competitive in the division. Or at least better than the 101 loss team he took over.

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The entire advertising world speaks to you like you're stupid 24 hours a day. How many TeeVees do you go through in a month? Oh, you never break a TeeVee? Then you must love being talked to like you're stupid. 

Chris Getz just gave an interview on the REKAP podcast which was about as perfect an interview he could have given. And the usual suspects here clowned on it. 

These two sentences back to back.  Just perfect.  One minute we should know better, and the next we should listen to his "perfect" interview. 

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It also doesn't jive with their actions last year.  If they REALLY thought this was a 110 loss team in the 2024 off-season, why the hell didn't they trade Luis Robert at his absolute peak value to try get players on this full rebuild timeline?  Either it is negligence by the GM, or he thought he could do something quick to win some games and get some good well.  Which is it?

They didn't want to "waste a year" 

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, you might like getting talked to like you are stupid, but most people don't.  If my kid gets up and lies to my face, I usually give them one chance to reconsider and offer them an out to stop digging the hole.  As often as this happens, they have either chose to keep lying to us, or were so completely disconnected from reality, they believed what they were saying.  Honestly, I am not even worse which is better, but neither is very good for a relationship with the fans.  Either get up and say you were wrong, or tell me the truth.

In 1997, the Sox could not get out of their own way. That team was maddening. And after every freaking loss, a half dozen guys could only talk about trade rumors after the game, and not the game they just lost. It was a good team that was poorly managed. There were not going to catch Cleveland. They took 4 from KC in July, then couldn't string together three wins for the rest of the month. They traded Alvarez, Hernandez and Darwin. Reinsdorf gave a brutally honest interview on sports radio, and "White Flag Trade" was thrown in his face regularly until the world series victory. 

So, you're talking about a fanbase that has openly told the owner to never speak the truth to them. He did, and they went nuts on him. Liptak still hasn't gotten over it. 

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

These two sentences back to back.  Just perfect.  One minute we should know better, and the next we should listen to his "perfect" interview. 

This is when I come to the conclusion that you have nothing valuable to say. You can't stay on subject, and wander off to personal attacks. 

Reasonable people think Getz walked the line between being honest and not burning people like the Dodgers and KW/Hahn pretty well in the REKAP interview. He didn't promise a World Series tomorrow, or that Eloy, Yoan and Robert would all be in the lineup well past game 11. 

Edited January 24, 20251 yr by WestEddy

34 minutes ago, T R U said:

No one expected a competitive team, we expected an actual hiring process to fix this mess of an organization and we didn't get it because the owner claimed he couldn't waste a year when that's what happened anyways.

As a fan I would be much more at peace with this thing if JR had just fired everyone who had a hand in this and said "Sorry, we can do better than this" and made an effort.

I was rooting for that. It didn't happen. Getz is the guy, now, and I want him to succeed, because that means the Sox succeed. 

He's actually overhauling the organization. Being hyper-critical at this point is about hurt feelings, and not actual baseball. 

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I was rooting for that. It didn't happen. Getz is the guy, now, and I want him to succeed, because that means the Sox succeed. 

He's actually overhauling the organization. Being hyper-critical at this point is about hurt feelings, and not actual baseball. 

Not about actual baseball? Wow! The only one ignoring the baseball is you.

 

You actually named Seby Zavala as a Chris Getz accomplishment. If people didn't know any better, they would think you are trolling.

Edited January 24, 20251 yr by Dick Allen

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This is when I come to the conclusion that you have nothing valuable to say. You can't stay on subject, and wander off to personal attacks. 

Reasonable people think Getz walked the line between being honest and not burning people like the Dodgers and KW/Hahn pretty well in the REKAP interview. He didn't promise a World Series tomorrow, or that Eloy, Yoan and Robert would all be in the lineup well past game 11. 

Right, as you were lobbing insults in your previous post.  Run along then.

22 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This is when I come to the conclusion that you have nothing valuable to say. You can't stay on subject, and wander off to personal attacks. 

Reasonable people think Getz walked the line between being honest and not burning people like the Dodgers and KW/Hahn pretty well in the REKAP interview. He didn't promise a World Series tomorrow, or that Eloy, Yoan and Robert would all be in the lineup well past game 11. 

29 minutes ago, Tony said:

They didn't want to "waste a year" 

"Of attendance" was the rest of that sentence 

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Not about actual baseball? Wow! The only one ignoring the baseball is you.

 

You actually named Seby Zavala as a Chris Getz accomplishment. If people didn't know any better, they would think you are trolling.

Getz could have brought back Seby’s studly ass if he wanted to.  He was DFA by the Mariners twice last season and no other team claimed him.  The Red Sox signed him to a minor league deal in November.

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I was rooting for that. It didn't happen. Getz is the guy, now, and I want him to succeed, because that means the Sox succeed. 

He's actually overhauling the organization. Being hyper-critical at this point is about hurt feelings, and not actual baseball. 

He is telling you he is overhauling the organization, and you accept that as 100 percent fact and get mad at anyone who says “you know what?  I’m not seeing it”  we have no results to go on except the worst season in the history of the league, in a season where nobody even considered the idea that they might not have 10 wins at the end of April.

it’s not about hurt feelings.  I just don’t think these people are going to come through, and nothing they have done has changed my mind.  Sorry that bothers you so much but every time you talk about everyone else’s hurt feelings and bro dudes and every other strawman name you have for all these villains that ruin your life, it makes your argument worse.

32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Not about actual baseball? Wow! The only one ignoring the baseball is you.

 

You actually named Seby Zavala as a Chris Getz accomplishment. If people didn't know any better, they would think you are trolling.

Zavala was an example of an achievement in developing the defensive game of catchers. Seriously, bringing up half an example to lie is actual trolling. I sure hope you recover from the devastating injury of a 41 win season. Thoughts and prayers. 

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Zavala was an example of an achievement in developing the defensive game of catchers. Seriously, bringing up half an example to lie is actual trolling. I sure hope you recover from the devastating injury of a 41 win season. Thoughts and prayers. 

You realize he has been one of the most loyal season ticket holders and game attendees around until recently???...this is not the "dunking on" you think it is, when a lot of die hards in their 40s 50s and 60 and their children have given up entirely on this franchise.  It's just sad it has come to this, actually.

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You realize he has been one of the most loyal season ticket holders and game attendees around until recently???...this is not the "dunking on" you think it is, when a lot of die hards in their 40s 50s and 60 and their children have given up entirely on this franchise.  It's just sad it has come to this, actually.

Did a helluva job with Collins.

52 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I was rooting for that. It didn't happen. Getz is the guy, now, and I want him to succeed, because that means the Sox succeed. 

He's actually overhauling the organization. Being hyper-critical at this point is about hurt feelings, and not actual baseball. 

It's ok to be frustrated with your favorite team being the worst of all time and run by an unqualified GM. Its also ok if you don't care, but why do you find it necessary to try to dunk on everyone that does care?

39 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

He is telling you he is overhauling the organization, and you accept that as 100 percent fact and get mad at anyone who says “you know what?  I’m not seeing it”  we have no results to go on except the worst season in the history of the league, in a season where nobody even considered the idea that they might not have 10 wins at the end of April.

it’s not about hurt feelings.  I just don’t think these people are going to come through, and nothing they have done has changed my mind.  Sorry that bothers you so much but every time you talk about everyone else’s hurt feelings and bro dudes and every other strawman name you have for all these villains that ruin your life, it makes your argument worse.

Here's a paraphrasing of what you're responding to:

I didn't recall people being "duped", here, by the press conference. 

TRU responded, complaining about the hiring process and the "waste a year" comment.

I agreed with him on hiring process, but I said I moved on, and now want the team to succeed. 

You come in and accuse me of being mad. There isn't any anger in my words. People have said that they're hyper-critical because of the hiring. That's not about observing the actual process of what's going on. 

"Ruining my life" is you engaging in hyperbole, and deciding that you want to attack somebody. I believe I'm participating in a discussion about Getz rebuilding from the ground up. Surprise!! That's in the name of the string. So I think I'm good. 

Anyway...

A rebuild does not start with a world series victory. 

I'm not mad at people saying they don't see it. There are obvious results. You just saw two of our minor league teams compete in their league's championships this year. You saw the Sox rise to a top 5 farm system. You saw the Sox clock in with the 2 top left-handed pitching prospects in the game, #1 taken late in the 1st round, and developed. No, those aren't major league wins and losses. But judging the overhaul of an organization in it's first year by the major league product is mistaken. Those statements don't get me angry, I just figure those are people not really engaged in what the Sox are doing as an organization, and will complain about anything.

Again, screaming about "dumpster-diving" a guy off of waivers, then tying it back to a sentence from a press conference 18 months ago has nothing to do with criticism of how Getz is overhauling the organization. 

47 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz could have brought back Seby’s studly ass if he wanted to.  He was DFA by the Mariners twice last season and no other team claimed him.  The Red Sox signed him to a minor league deal in November.

And Getz was the one who waived him. His trophy development.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, you might like getting talked to like you are stupid, but most people don't.  If my kid gets up and lies to my face, I usually give them one chance to reconsider and offer them an out to stop digging the hole.  As often as this happens, they have either chose to keep lying to us, or were so completely disconnected from reality, they believed what they were saying.  Honestly, I am not even worse which is better, but neither is very good for a relationship with the fans.  Either get up and say you were wrong, or tell me the truth.

It's not a lie if you believe it.

4 minutes ago, T R U said:

It's ok to be frustrated with your favorite team being the worst of all time and run by an unqualified GM. Its also ok if you don't care, but why do you find it necessary to try to dunk on everyone that does care?

I think I generally stay away from the drive-bys, and people like you who are frustrated, and for the most part, talk baseball. When Caulfield or WS2023 do their BS, yeah, I'll get sucked in and argue. I believe that's the point of their behavior. 

I come here because it's probably the best gathering of rumors and sports talk/blogs/etc. I ignore what I can, but the negative stuff builds up, and I respond sometimes. 

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Getz's signings last winter certainly weren't "build from the ground up" moves. It was pretty clear that Getz thought some vets and some defense would have them competitive in the division. Or at least better than the 101 loss team he took over.

Build from the ground up isn't singular to the ML roster.