I have some general questions about all of this:

Since Jerry has full controlling interest in the team, what difference does it make that Ishbia is buying up a good chunk of the non-controlling interest in the team from other shareholders?  Couldn't JR (or his sons after his death) hypothetically just decide to sell his controlling interest to someone else?  

Is Jerry's 20% or so stake in the team valued higher than the remaining non-controlling shares?  If so, how much more?

How does Ishbia buying out a majority of shareholders impact Reinsdorf's dream of a new ballpark in the South Loop?

 

Maybe some of these questions have a "well, duh!" answer to them, but just wanted get all this sorted out in my mind.  

17 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I have some general questions about all of this:

Since Jerry has full controlling interest in the team, what difference does it make that Ishbia is buying up a good chunk of the non-controlling interest in the team from other shareholders?  Couldn't JR (or his sons after his death) hypothetically just decide to sell his controlling interest to someone else?  

Is Jerry's 20% or so stake in the team valued higher than the remaining non-controlling shares?  If so, how much more?

How does Ishbia buying out a majority of shareholders impact Reinsdorf's dream of a new ballpark in the South Loop?

 

Maybe some of these questions have a "well, duh!" answer to them, but just wanted get all this sorted out in my mind.  

The thinking is if JR called him back from the Twins and convinced him to buy minority share of the Sox instead, there is zero chance this isn't a path to full ownership at some point in the near future.

Ishbia will put cash up to defray stadium costs, making a public pitch for dollars more palatable.

Jerry's stake is worth more per share, but not in total, because of the nature of control and voting attached to the agreement.

 

11 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I have some general questions about all of this:

Since Jerry has full controlling interest in the team, what difference does it make that Ishbia is buying up a good chunk of the non-controlling interest in the team from other shareholders?  Couldn't JR (or his sons after his death) hypothetically just decide to sell his controlling interest to someone else?  

Is Jerry's 20% or so stake in the team valued higher than the remaining non-controlling shares?  If so, how much more?

How does Ishbia buying out a majority of shareholders impact Reinsdorf's dream of a new ballpark in the South Loop?

 

Maybe some of these questions have a "well, duh!" answer to them, but just wanted get all this sorted out in my mind.  

1. Yes. Although would seem odd for Ishbia to abandon the Twins in that case.

2. Jerry's 20% is not the controlling shares. He owns what is  believed to be 100% of what is basically shell company above the shares in question that are the controlling shares. These shares almost certainly valued higher than the 1.8 billion that Ishbia just paid out on, making the franchise itself more valuable. How valuable is whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Who knows

3. I imagine then it's no longer Jerry's dream, but Ishbias. He's not in this to fund someone else's pet project.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's a capital gain no matter how much you own.  The ownership structure and purchaser literally have zero to do with how much Jerry pays in taxes upon his cashing out. 

It's the price he gets paid by the purchaser, minus the price he paid originally, times the gains rate.  It's not hard.  It's just like anyone else would be paying on any long term gain, such as stock or crypto.

Some (including myself) did not understand that Jerry has a minority stake, reportedly around 20%. Therefore, he could choose to keep his 20% stake after a sale and avoid capital gains.  This needed to be clarified because some posters had felt that capital gains taxes were a reason that JR might be waiting to sell until he passes.

That said, JR is Chairman of the Board and has certain powers in that role including evaluating potential offers on behalf of existing shareholders.

20 minutes ago, tray said:

Some (including myself) did not understand that Jerry has a minority stake, reportedly around 20%. Therefore, he could choose to keep his 20% stake after a sale and avoid capital gains.  This needed to be clarified because some posters had felt that capital gains taxes were a reason that JR might be waiting to sell until he passes.

That said, JR is Chairman of the Board and has certain powers in that role including evaluating potential offers on behalf of existing shareholders.

He could do it one of three ways.  Sell immediately.  Sell at some agreed upon point in the future, or sell upon his death to save on gains.

The last two options require some sort of conversation about team control that I am sure has already taken place.

22 minutes ago, tray said:

Some (including myself) did not understand that Jerry has a minority stake, reportedly around 20%. Therefore, he could choose to keep his 20% stake after a sale and avoid capital gains.  This needed to be clarified because some posters had felt that capital gains taxes were a reason that JR might be waiting to sell until he passes.

That said, JR is Chairman of the Board and has certain powers in that role including evaluating potential offers on behalf of existing shareholders.

Even that 20% is subject to capital gains.... and massively at that.

Assuming he's had 20% since 1980 (which i believe is not the case), at a sale price of $20MM, that's $4M in cost basis.

If the team is valued at $2B now, that gives him about a $200M stake in the team... that's capital gains tax on $196M of gains.

12 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Even that 20% is subject to capital gains.... and massively at that.

Assuming he's had 20% since 1980 (which i believe is not the case), at a sale price of $20MM, that's $4M in cost basis.

If the team is valued at $2B now, that gives him about a $200M stake in the team... that's capital gains tax on $196M of gains.

$400m at 20%.

1 hour ago, PaleAleSox said:

I assume he has to be fronting the money for the new stadium, but that would even moreso make me want control. JR can keep his shares. 

He can only front money for the stadium if it comes with a capital call.  And if that happens, my guess is he would be looking for a formal transfer of control since is the majority shareholder and would be footing a huge chunk of the bill.

38 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Even that 20% is subject to capital gains.... and massively at that.

Assuming he's had 20% since 1980 (which i believe is not the case), at a sale price of $20MM, that's $4M in cost basis.

If the team is valued at $2B now, that gives him about a $200M stake in the team... that's capital gains tax on $196M of gains.

Dude, he doesn't have to sell during his lifetime.

32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

$400m at 20%.

@tray Do you have a problem with the math or is this just more of your pathetic passive-aggressive ignorance?

7 minutes ago, tray said:

Dude, he doesn't have to sell during his lifetime.

You’re right, he doesn’t have to…but if he wants to max out his proceeds on a sale then doing something with Ishbia while alive is probably his best option assuming a deal can be structured in a way to avoid the capital gains hit.

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re right, he doesn’t have to…but if he wants to max out his proceeds on a sale then doing something with Ishbia while alive is probably his best option assuming a deal can be structured in a way to avoid the capital gains hit.

Which amounts to transferring control while he is alive, and Jerry giving him a ROFR upon his death for the remaining shares.

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which amounts to transferring control while he is alive, and Jerry giving him a ROFR upon his death for the remaining shares.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking would happen.

55 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which amounts to transferring control while he is alive, and Jerry giving him a ROFR upon his death for the remaining shares.

Yes, that would work plus JR's relinquishment of his chairmanship to the majority owner.  No problem with Cap Gains or anything else for JR. 

I just wanted to know why this deal hasn't happened yet and why all the secrecy?  As I said previously, the uncertainty does not help the team and is creating some unnecessary confusion for fans. Finalize this one way or another before the Opener.

 

8 minutes ago, tray said:

Yes, that would work plus JR's relinquishment of his chairmanship to the majority owner.  No problem with Cap Gains or anything else for JR. 

I just wanted to know why this deal hasn't happened yet and why all the secrecy?  As I said previously, the uncertainty does not help the team and is creating some unnecessary confusion for fans. Finalize this one way or another before the Opener.

 

If what we think is going on is going on...this isn't swapping baseball trading cards!  Not happening by writing it out on a cocktail napkin.  These things get done when they get done...and they aren't going to announce it until it gets done (if it is even happening).  Billions of dollars involved here...it isn't a handshake and a wink.  Confusion for the fans...who cares?  I am one of them and I enjoy this story...but it isn't changing anything about how I go about my day.  I hope Ishbia buys the White Sox...but I am not expecting it to be today or next week...

21 minutes ago, tray said:

Yes, that would work plus JR's relinquishment of his chairmanship to the majority owner.  No problem with Cap Gains or anything else for JR. 

I just wanted to know why this deal hasn't happened yet and why all the secrecy?  As I said previously, the uncertainty does not help the team and is creating some unnecessary confusion for fans. Finalize this one way or another before the Opener.

 

Don't confuse this deal not happening with it not being announced.  There are a lot of behind the scenes things that happen  in multi-billion dollar things, like I have tried to explain to you multiple times.

Are MLB team sales done out in the open?

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Are MLB team sales done out in the open?

It's one of those essentially unknown rules called The Tray Rule.

Thou shalt negotiate the sale of my favorite baseball team in public.

18 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Are MLB team sales done out in the open?

I laugh at the notion that any major business transaction would be done in the open.  It’s legitimately nonsenscial.

1 hour ago, tray said:

Yes, that would work plus JR's relinquishment of his chairmanship to the majority owner.  No problem with Cap Gains or anything else for JR. 

I just wanted to know why this deal hasn't happened yet and why all the secrecy?  As I said previously, the uncertainty does not help the team and is creating some unnecessary confusion for fans. Finalize this one way or another before the Opener.

 

What do you think the confusion is for fans?  There will be really bad White Sox baseball either way.

Edited March 6, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

Yeah who cares who will own and lead this franchise this season. I'm sure the GM and Manager don't wonder or care who they might be working for or whether they will be soon be terminated, and of course, most fans could care less, which is why dozens of posts speculating about this have accumulated here.  Try another line of personal attack that isn't so transparent and maybe adds something to the content here.  LMAO.

9 minutes ago, tray said:

Yeah who cares who will own and lead this franchise this season. I'm sure the GM and Manager don't wonder or care who they might be working for or whether they will be soon be terminated, and of course, most fans could care less, which is why dozens of posts speculating about this have accumulated here.  Try another line of personal attack that isn't so transparent and maybe adds something to the content here.  LMAO.

But this can happen to any random office worker at any time as well.  Mergers and acquisitions by larger companies causing the loss of jobs.  This isn’t some crazy unique situation.

Edited March 6, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

28 minutes ago, tray said:

Yeah who cares who will own and lead this franchise this season. I'm sure the GM and Manager don't wonder or care who they might be working for or whether they will be soon be terminated, and of course, most fans could care less, which is why dozens of posts speculating about this have accumulated here.  Try another line of personal attack that isn't so transparent and maybe adds something to the content here.  LMAO.

Personal attacks?  You continue to say wild stuff on a message board and then expect a free pass.  Billion dollar transactions don’t happen in the open and to suggest otherwise is either blatant trolling or a level of ignorance that’s beyond comprehension.  Ishbia & Jerry don’t owe us s%*# and they aren’t going to risk their massive deal falling through to keep you up-to-speed.

Getz has to be feeling the pressure.

In all likelihood, he gets these next two years and then is demoted (not unlike Grady) or out of the organization entirely.

It all depends on whether the team looks competitive or not heading into the second half of 2027.

Same goes for Venable, although I'm pretty sure he will get a bit more leeway as long as he holds the clubhouse together and does a solid job mentoring the young players (especially on the positional side of things).

 

There's just not much to get excited about other than the usual suspects (we have no idea how Montgomery's back will hold up) and the two big-time catching prospects in Teel and Quero.  Teel looks like he will be a key contributor...with Quero, feel he'll end up more like another version of already-rostered Omar Narvaez, which is a solid contributor to a big league roster at least.

Have almost zero expectations for anyone else (outside the Big 3 pitchers and Braden) at this point...Meidroth, Vargas, Sosa, Ramos, etc.  It's better to just be pleasantly surprised than disappointed, right?  Maybe maybe maybe Baldwin can become Chris Taylor Lite in an ideal world.

Edited March 7, 20251 yr by caulfield12

56 minutes ago, tray said:

Yeah who cares who will own and lead this franchise this season. I'm sure the GM and Manager don't wonder or care who they might be working for or whether they will be soon be terminated, and of course, most fans could care less, which is why dozens of posts speculating about this have accumulated here.  Try another line of personal attack that isn't so transparent and maybe adds something to the content here.  LMAO.

#1 Take your own advice. If you don't want attacks, stop attacking people. It's pretty freaking easy for most people. 

#2 What if I told People can care about what is going to happen, AND can understand that multiBillion dollar deals do have some level of privacy to get them done.  It's not even complex for anyone with even a Business 101 understanding of the corporate world.

#3 The next you add something productive and not either an attack or ridiculous conspiracy to this discussion it will be the first time.