What if things changed in 26

[MiddleCoastBias]

18 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

If we are talking about a mere year into the future, I am pouring millions into turning White Sox operations into the developement envy of the league. Poach the best minds in scouting, developement, data, etc. Whatever it takes. I leave FA alone for the most part until there is a homegrown foundation in place.

Love this. As much as I dislike the guy, I'd take the "Deion Sanders taking over Colorado" approach, basically come in and say "most of you aren't going to be here next year so you get to decide if you leave on your own or I show you the door".

Real drastic shakeup, say the Sox are open for business and overpay to build a whole system of the best and brightest. 

I'm sure it's naive to think we can actually do this (if it was so easy to just pay the best people a little more to get them to work for you, why doesn't every team try that now?) But anything to shake out the stink of the last three+ years.

[kitekrazy]

I can't get past the point that no one wants to play here.  Talk all you want of signing players but it's nothing but DFA material or late signings like a Beni which you overpaid.

All of the free agents you mention would only sign if they are DFA'd. 

These are mere hallucinations

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If I remember right the Sox have among the fewest full time scouts in MLB for one example.

You'd think this is something obvious especially if you are loath to dive into free agency and pay for superstar players which JR doesn't agree to do.

It is just bizarre how this franchise has operated particularly since 2007, they won't pay for free agents and they won't put the resources into acquiring, drafting and developing their own talent.

Maybe that's why they have had only five winning seasons since the start of 2007. 

It just never ceases to amaze me that we will drop a few million on a crappy utility back up middle infielder, when the same few million dollars in the front office could pay 100X in the future by giving you cheap players with 6 years of control so you didn't waste millions on negative WAR players to fill out a roster.

[Chisoxfn]

53 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I can't get past the point that no one wants to play here.  Talk all you want of signing players but it's nothing but DFA material or late signings like a Beni which you overpaid.

All of the free agents you mention would only sign if they are DFA'd. 

These are mere hallucinations

Money talks. They will have no problem signing people if they change in what they spend and operate and with new owner. This thing can change pretty fast if done right. 

[kitekrazy]

14 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

This was my point - and this would just get us to a middle of the road payroll. From there over another year or two - maybe get into top 10 in payroll. Shoot - I wanted them to trade for Bellinger at a discount - would have worked out nice right now flipping him!

Now I agree - I would spend some of the money building a better front office and development staff - but it would have to be under Getz watch and I would splurge on some shorter term deals for guys to flip - but if they could swing big for a young star - you do it too. 

 

That pattern of small market habitual losing baseball.  We so want that to work but it doesn't.  It's not like other organization haven't done this. We believe in it so much but the results are not there. Plus it doesn't spread good will to wanting players to sign here other than hopefully I'm good enough to be traded.  We tend to individualize this sport.  Stats from one team doesn't equal stats with  the new team.  If there are no existing players to compliment that player they suck when they get here.  It doesn't happen with the habitual winning teams.  These solutions never work for an organization that is bad in scouting in all aspects of the game.   You would not get the same Naylor in a Sox lineup as you do in the D'Backs.  If Ohatni were a Sox you get a different one. This organization would bat a Vaughn or Vargas after him and all they have to do is walk him.  

 We seem to believe in the trade frenzy practice and it never produces sustained winning.  Bad teams - what are we going to get in the future by giving up, good teams what future are we going to give up ti win now.

I'll bet the discussions are much different with the North Siders.

[Chisoxfn]

16 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

That pattern of small market habitual losing baseball.  We so want that to work but it doesn't.  It's not like other organization haven't done this. We believe in it so much but the results are not there. Plus it doesn't spread good will to wanting players to sign here other than hopefully I'm good enough to be traded.  We tend to individualize this sport.  Stats from one team doesn't equal stats with  the new team.  If there are no existing players to compliment that player they suck when they get here.  It doesn't happen with the habitual winning teams.  These solutions never work for an organization that is bad in scouting in all aspects of the game.   You would not get the same Naylor in a Sox lineup as you do in the D'Backs.  If Ohatni were a Sox you get a different one. This organization would bat a Vaughn or Vargas after him and all they have to do is walk him.  

 We seem to believe in the trade frenzy practice and it never produces sustained winning.  Bad teams - what are we going to get in the future by giving up, good teams what future are we going to give up ti win now.

I'll bet the discussions are much different with the North Siders.

If Shohei were a White Sox - he would still be the single greatest player in baseball.

[kitekrazy]

13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

If Shohei were a White Sox - he would still be the single greatest player in baseball.

They would put him on the mound and the way the Sox ball bounces he would need TJ surgery.

[Chisoxfn]

19 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

That pattern of small market habitual losing baseball.  We so want that to work but it doesn't.  It's not like other organization haven't done this. We believe in it so much but the results are not there. Plus it doesn't spread good will to wanting players to sign here other than hopefully I'm good enough to be traded.  We tend to individualize this sport.  Stats from one team doesn't equal stats with  the new team.  If there are no existing players to compliment that player they suck when they get here.  It doesn't happen with the habitual winning teams.  These solutions never work for an organization that is bad in scouting in all aspects of the game.   You would not get the same Naylor in a Sox lineup as you do in the D'Backs.  If Ohatni were a Sox you get a different one. This organization would bat a Vaughn or Vargas after him and all they have to do is walk him.  

 We seem to believe in the trade frenzy practice and it never produces sustained winning.  Bad teams - what are we going to get in the future by giving up, good teams what future are we going to give up ti win now.

I'll bet the discussions are much different with the North Siders.

I do agree with you on the core and I think fundamentally for things to change - far larger investments needs to happen - both in terms of spending money on on field talent, but just as importantly (and I would agree and echo everything everyone here has said) in the front office, development, scouting, medicine, and anlaytics paths.   The club has to do both - I actually think Getz has done some in these department and he's been smart here - he's trying to buy goodwill to JR in how he's doing it and I think his current pitch (when JR was the sole owner and technically he still has full control) had to be very limited in how you did it because JR doesn't buy this stuff - so Getz has to take bite sized paths forward to show the benefits and let JR see them.  I expect we will see more of that play out - but hopefully with the infusion of funding - we can see that path start to accelerate in the off-season (and maybe reality is none of this changes until ownership fully changes hands) and start to see a larger infusion in these areas.  Again - money talks and if the tone from the top is changing and people see it - you can absolutely hire stronger talent.

I actually would start by hiring a president above Getz - purely to oversee the bigger philosophical movements and I'd go get someone from a far more advanced org to do it and right him a check and than let him work with Getz to continue to build out that evolution (and they can also assess whether Getz is that right person or not). 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I do agree with you on the core and I think fundamentally for things to change - far larger investments needs to happen - both in terms of spending money on on field talent, but just as importantly (and I would agree and echo everything everyone here has said) in the front office, development, scouting, medicine, and anlaytics paths.   The club has to do both - I actually think Getz has done some in these department and he's been smart here - he's trying to buy goodwill to JR in how he's doing it and I think his current pitch (when JR was the sole owner and technically he still has full control) had to be very limited in how you did it because JR doesn't buy this stuff - so Getz has to take bite sized paths forward to show the benefits and let JR see them.  I expect we will see more of that play out - but hopefully with the infusion of funding - we can see that path start to accelerate in the off-season (and maybe reality is none of this changes until ownership fully changes hands) and start to see a larger infusion in these areas.  Again - money talks and if the tone from the top is changing and people see it - you can absolutely hire stronger talent.

I actually would start by hiring a president above Getz - purely to oversee the bigger philosophical movements and I'd go get someone from a far more advanced org to do it and right him a check and than let him work with Getz to continue to build out that evolution (and they can also assess whether Getz is that right person or not). 

I think we all would have felt a lot better about this s%*# show if Tony wasn't in the picture, and someone with some actual baseball success was in charge at the top who has actually been a part of a winning organization.

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think people realize how cheap this is relative to the payroll.

The White Sox could merely pay market value (which would be well above the rest of baseball who pays under market and sells "experience"), establish a team of roughly 50-100 analysts, MLops and Data Engineers, scouts, specialists, etc at market rates and supply them with all the equipment and you're still only talking about 10-20 millionish dollars probably. I'd argue that's a high-side estimate though.

The Sox should do that regardless. This is what it costs to run a baseball team. 100 would probably be too many/overkill given that it's only a 2 billion dollar organization, but if you want to be the best.

So what are you doing with the other 80-90 million?

Yeah, it wouldn't take $20M to accomplish, but my starting point would be paying whatever it took to make the Sox FO/operations the best around. I probably then bank the remaining cash until adding pricy FA make more sense. I just feel 2026 would be too soon with where the farm system currently is.

[Chick Mercedes]

—-Rick Hahn listened to his staff and players. He refused to move Gonzalez and gave him a shot in the big leagues. But once Hahn was fired, GM Chris Getz did not have the same reverence for Gonzalez's intangibles and potential. 

The White Sox designated Romy Gonzalez for assignment on January 26, 2024. They have lived to regret that decision and the entire baseball world is now shaming them for letting Romy Gonzalez get away

 

ENTIRE BASEBALL WORLD!

 

 

https://southsideshowdown.com/white-sox-get-shamed-romy-gonzalez-underrated-mlb-star-news

 

[77 Hitmen]

4 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Cali: Fair enough.

We'll see in the next few years who proves to be more correct in their assessment.

Of course it all may not matter if something happens and ishbia gets control of the team sooner than expected. I would assume in that case much like what John Allyn did in September 1970, that he basically fires everyone on the baseball side and brings in his own people. 

Bottom line to me anyway is that the Sox are going to lose 100 games again next year, in 2027 the labor impasse is going to short circuit the season, at least to some extent, which will make an honest evaluation impossible. 

If Getz and company are still around when the 2028 season starts we'll see if all these "changes" (which admittedly the Sox desperately needed to make) prove to be of value or if the powers that be once again, chose the wrong people to be in charge and short circuited any real development. 

As an aside the Athletic has a story today in the daily newsletter that Manfred is pushing for a salary cap when directly talking to players and the MLBPA isn't buying it (along with said players).

Here's a link to that story (for those who have a NY Times subscription):

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6484590/2025/07/09/mlbpa-bruce-meyer-rob-manfred-salary-cap/

Edited July 10 by 77 Hitmen

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Here's a link to the story (for those who have a NY Times subscription):

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6484590/2025/07/09/mlbpa-bruce-meyer-rob-manfred-salary-cap/

It's wild to see Manfred claim the players are getting cheated out 9f revenue,  but also owners are losing tons of money.  If the players share of revenue went up, wouldn't owners be losing more money?  

[77 Hitmen]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think people realize how cheap this is relative to the payroll.

The White Sox could merely pay market value (which would be well above the rest of baseball who pays under market and sells "experience"), establish a team of roughly 50-100 analysts, MLops and Data Engineers, scouts, specialists, etc at market rates and supply them with all the equipment and you're still only talking about 10-20 millionish dollars probably. I'd argue that's a high-side estimate though.

The Sox should do that regardless. This is what it costs to run a baseball team. 100 would probably be too many/overkill given that it's only a 2 billion dollar organization, but if you want to be the best.

So what are you doing with the other 80-90 million?

 

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, these aren't major league salaries, especially for the day to day, non-management, crew.

 

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If I remember right the Sox have among the fewest full time scouts in MLB for one example.

You'd think this is something obvious especially if you are loath to dive into free agency and pay for superstar players which JR doesn't agree to do.

It is just bizarre how this franchise has operated particularly since 2007, they won't pay for free agents and they won't put the resources into acquiring, drafting and developing their own talent.

Maybe that's why they have had only five winning seasons since the start of 2007. 

This is quite baffling to me.  Very frustrating to us fans, too.  This is how a team makes it to 121 losses.

I can't figure out the logic in this long-standing approach.  Perhaps Jerry is just philosophically opposed to spending more money than minimally necessary on this kind of thing.  He's also very insular and wants to hire loyalists, not the best front office talent that money can buy. 

At any rate, I have always thought the way he's approached operating this team is "penny wise and dollar foolish".  He has allowed the major league payroll to rise to the top 10, so it's not that he never wants to spend money on anything.  

[nrockway]

I think Tucker and Ha-Seong Kim are the only players worth looking at for multiyear contracts. Maybe one of the pitchers, ie Bieber, on a 1/1 'prove it' sorta deal. Maybe you look at Bellinger as a guy who can actually play CF post-Robert. Pass on Bo Bichette. I feel like he is the player you would get if you combined Tim Anderson and Andrew Benintendi into one player somehow. Tim the 30+ player, Benny the 30+ terrible contract.  Or maybe just an older, less-disciplined version of Chase Meidroth. The guy couldn't play defense when he was young, will be he able to do it in his 30s? Is he a good hitter if he's not hitting at .355 BABIP?

Maybe we have too many infielders as is, but can you really trust them, and I think Kim is just a good player who will probably be paid a reasonable amount if he declines his (also reasonable) player option. Or maybe he's injured the entire time and can't play defense anymore, but his stats seem 'trustworthy' to me, like it's a performance that could be repeated for several more years, 4-5 WAR mostly with the glove...a cheaper version of Dansby Swanson but probably better at baseball. He's back from injury and has looked good in three games, so maybe he plays himself out of the Sox price range. I wouldn't break the bank for Kim whereas I think the Sox should really try to pursue Tucker...doubtful they will, but he'd be a perfect fit on the team and at the park. I don't know why that guy never got more hype, his statistics and career trajectory are eerily similar to Bryce Harper.

[Lip Man 1]

36 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's wild to see Manfred claim the players are getting cheated out 9f revenue,  but also owners are losing tons of money.  If the players share of revenue went up, wouldn't owners be losing more money?  

On Foul Territory yesterday they were talking about this with the MLBPA Director and he brought up an interesting point about having a salary cap in other leagues. He said MLB is the only one of the major pro sports in North America to have never missed a game since the other leagues had a salary cap implemented.

His point was the NFL, NBA and NHL all have salary caps and all had seasons disrupted because the players felt the owners were taking advantage of the situation. 

[The Mighty Mite]

On 7/9/2025 at 11:04 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

I'd basically put everyone on notice since the franchise is about to have its third straight 100+ loss season.

You have next year to prove your worth, period. Full stop.

That goes for the baseball side of the operations, the marketing side, the broadcasting side, the medical, training and conditioning staffs.

Everyone from scouts to equipment people to everyone in between.

The incompetence, dysfunction and ineptness needs to stop. 

Agree, 3+straight 100 loss seasons  is enough, I would be extremely happy to be competitive and play .500 baseball in 2026. I’m not an expert but with Montgomery, Meidroth, Sosa, Quero and Teel  I feel we have a nice nucleus plus some good arms on the pitching staff including the bullpen, this years ERA so far is close to league average. IMO the biggest need is some power hitting outfielders.
If you notice I left out Vargas in the nucleus, I’m worried about him, he has been struggling for about a month and is beyond a slump, I hope he figures things out soon.

 

Edited July 11 by The Mighty Mite

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Agree, 3+straight 100 loss season is enough, I would be very happy to be competitive and play .500 baseball in 2026. I’m not an expert but with Montgomery, Meidroth, Sosa, Quero and Teel  I feel we have a nice nucleus plus some good arms on the pitching staff including the bullpen, this years ERA so far is close to league average. IMO the biggest need is some power hitting outfielders.
If you notice I left out Vargas in the nucleus, I’m worried about him, he is really struggling and beyond a slump.

 

There is no where near enough talent in this org to play .500 ball next year, even if almost everything goes right.

[The Mighty Mite]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no where near enough talent in this org to play .500 ball next year, even if almost everything goes right.

What if JR decides to use some of Ishiba’s money to sign some power guys? A couple of power guys in the lineup would probably make the other guys in the lineup a bit better, that and I expect guys like Teel, Montgomery and Baldwin to get stronger and start hitting the ball out of the park. 

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

What if JR decides to use some of Ishiba’s money to sign some power guys? A couple of power guys in the lineup would probably make the other guys in the lineup a bit better, that and I expect guys like Teel, Montgomery and Baldwin to get stronger and start hitting the ball out of the park. 

I mean even if they were willing to spend A LOT, this roster just sucks.  I don't see it.

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean even if they were willing to spend A LOT, this roster just sucks.  I don't see it.

Outside of catching platoon, there’s no one on this roster I can confidently predict will be better than average.

[The Mighty Mite]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean even if they were willing to spend A LOT, this roster just sucks.  I don't see it.

I’m curious, with guys like Montgomery, Teel, Quero, Mondroith, Sosa and Baldwin do you not think that they make up a decent nucleus?

[Lip Man 1]

17 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’m curious, with guys like Montgomery, Teel, Quero, Mondroith, Sosa and Baldwin do you not think that they make up a decent nucleus?

To soon to tell about those guys. And unless Ishbia insists, JR isn't spending money this coming off season because of the distinct possibility of labor unrest derailing the 2027 season. 

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’m curious, with guys like Montgomery, Teel, Quero, Mondroith, Sosa and Baldwin do you not think that they make up a decent nucleus?

All of those guys hitting their peaks, all at once in 2026?

#1, I don't buy it.

#2, you can only start one catcher at a time, and the Sox refuse to play the other at the same time, which cuts down Teel and Quero into a combo of one player

#3, out of that list maybe you get league average-ish peaks out of Meidroth, Sosa, and Baldwin.  Maybe.  Sosa will lose time because of Meidroth and Montgomery.  Quero I feel better about being a league average guy, but I don't think he is going to play enough to put up numbers with splitting time with Teel.

#4, the only guys I see on that list would COULD have a plus league average type of career are Montgomery and Teel.  Montgomery still has some pretty big swing and miss issues, defense issues, and back problems.  Teel I feel better about as maybe an occasional all-star type peak.

#5 The pitching staff still lacks front line guys and stability.

#6, the pen is still fucking terrible.

#7, even if you spend a lot of money, you can only fill so many holes at once.

[The Mighty Mite]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

All of those guys hitting their peaks, all at once in 2026?

#1, I don't buy it.

#2, you can only start one catcher at a time, and the Sox refuse to play the other at the same time, which cuts down Teel and Quero into a combo of one player

#3, out of that list maybe you get league average-ish peaks out of Meidroth, Sosa, and Baldwin.  Maybe.  Sosa will lose time because of Meidroth and Montgomery.  Quero I feel better about being a league average guy, but I don't think he is going to play enough to put up numbers with splitting time with Teel.

#4, the only guys I see on that list would COULD have a plus league average type of career are Montgomery and Teel.  Montgomery still has some pretty big swing and miss issues, defense issues, and back problems.  Teel I feel better about as maybe an occasional all-star type peak.

#5 The pitching staff still lacks front line guys and stability.

#6, the pen is still fucking terrible.

#7, even if you spend a lot of money, you can only fill so many holes at once.

Yes, Quero needs to play more and that would happen with giving Teel a crash course at first base, can’t hurt since the 3 guys we have had at first this year have been complete busts.