An ominous future...

[caulfield12]

On 8/4/2025 at 11:19 PM, Sox guy said:

I became a fan because of Caitlin Clark, but then I saw how dreadful the level of play was.  No thanks.  and they all want raises too.  They're lucky the nba props them up. Without them, the league wouldn't exist.

 

as far as a 2027 labor stoppage goes, I do think the Sox will be good by then, so I hope things can be worked out.  I wasn't too much of a fan in 94, so I didn't really care about the wasted opportunity at the time, but now it's excruciatingly painful to see what might have been.  IMO, 1994 hurt us more than any other team, even more than the Spos.  I think we'd have won the pennant at minimum, probably the whole thing.  That year had a good ad campaign too, featuring Jim McMahon and MJ.  But it was all for naught

No longer the case with their new media rights deal, which the NBA negotiated to their own advantage due to the controlling shares in the W.

Look at the value of Golden State, Conn as there are already two competing buyers, LA, NY Liberty and the Fever.

They've all gone from tens of millions a decade ago to the top franchises now being worth between $300-400 million.

Three more teams being added and another 3-5 more on the horizon.

[The Mighty Mite]

On 7/29/2025 at 4:33 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Because despite having a rabid fan base and usually drawing very well, ownership has been cutting payroll and refuses to go after quality free agents. 

My broadcast partner is from the St. Louis area and he's furious at Cardinal ownership/management. 

Something is going on in St.Louis, failed to sell out any of this past weekend games against the Cubs. I turned on the game last night and couldn’t believe how many empty seats, only 30,000 showed up, that’s unheard of in Redbird land.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Something is going on in St.Louis, failed to sell out any of this past weekend games against the Cubs. I turned on the game last night and couldn’t believe how many empty seats, only 30,000 showed up, that’s unheard of in Redbird land.

Fed up with dumping contracts...half measures...getting left behind by Milwaukee and now the Cubs.

Collapse of the Arenado/Goldschmidt teams.

Lots of youngsters like Jordan Walker scuffling.  Dumping some of their long time studs like Helsley whole scuffling around the .500 mark go for most of the season felt like White Flag trades.  The leadership change in the front office isn't being all that well received either.

 

29% fall in attendance

2025 18th 29000

2024  7th 36000

2023  4th 40000

2022  2nd 41000

Edited August 11 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Something is going on in St.Louis, failed to sell out any of this past weekend games against the Cubs. I turned on the game last night and couldn’t believe how many empty seats, only 30,000 showed up, that’s unheard of in Redbird land.

Wasn't it pouring rain during most of the day in St. Louis?

[The Mighty Mite]

Just now, Lip Man 1 said:

Wasn't it pouring rain during most of the day in St. Louis?

I don’t know but they count seats sold not actual bodies at the game, normally there would 40,000+ seats sold for a Cubs-Cards game.

[nrockway]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

No longer the case with their new media rights deal, which the NBA negotiated to their own advantage due to the controlling shares in the W.

Look at the value of Golden State, Conn as there are already two competing buyers, LA, NY Liberty and the Fever.

They've all gone from tens of millions a decade ago to the top franchises now being worth between $300-400 million.

Three more teams being added and another 3-5 more on the horizon.

Yeah, I think the skill level is pretty good and the game is reminiscent of 90s NBA in some ways. More scoring from all across the floor rather than solely 3s and free throws. 
 

I think they’re way too physical though and the referees just let them play. It’s a finesse game. I don’t think anybody really wants to watch that. Watch ufc if you wanna see that. It’s not even just “physical” it’s a lot of cheap shots. The referees see it and ignore it. 

[Kyyle23]

20 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Yeah, I think the skill level is pretty good and the game is reminiscent of 90s NBA in some ways. More scoring from all across the floor rather than solely 3s and free throws. 
 

I think they’re way too physical though and the referees just let them play. It’s a finesse game. I don’t think anybody really wants to watch that. Watch ufc if you wanna see that. It’s not even just “physical” it’s a lot of cheap shots. The referees see it and ignore it. 

Feels like everyone is noticing how rough it’s been the last couple years.  Usually that changes a few things on the ref side that everyone will dislike equally, however it keeps players safer 

[nrockway]

10 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Feels like everyone is noticing how rough it’s been the last couple years.  Usually that changes a few things on the ref side that everyone will dislike equally, however it keeps players safer 

I guess some baseball fans miss the collisions at home plate and stuff like the following video:

but I don't. that's what football is for. 

lol at the video being age-restricted. 1974 Rangers vs Indians, Lenny Randle decking the pitcher Milt Wilcox on his way to first base.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I guess some baseball fans miss the collisions at home plate and stuff like the following video:

but I don't. that's what football is for. 

lol at the video being age-restricted. 1974 Rangers vs Indians, Lenny Randle decking the pitcher Milt Wilcox on his way to first base.

One of the craziest funniest drag bunts in history 

 

while I have to admit there was a very exciting aspect of the home plate collision, the damage that those collisions caused far outweighed the benefits.  Catchers shouldn’t get trucked while waiting and looking for the ball

[77 Hitmen]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Something is going on in St.Louis, failed to sell out any of this past weekend games against the Cubs. I turned on the game last night and couldn’t believe how many empty seats, only 30,000 showed up, that’s unheard of in Redbird land.

MLB is more and more becoming a sport for the mega metropolises where teams bring in big bucks.   Mid-market and small market teams can no longer sustain success and fan support/fan interest will suffer outside of the biggest cities.  It looks like the Cardinals are sliding into mediocrity as part of this trend.  Same with the Twins - a team that has long put together competitive teams.  Now they're deeply in debt and have blown everything up at the trade deadline.  Fan support used to be strong in the Twin Cities and it's been sliding in recent years.  

Milwaukee has been a total outlier and shouldn't be used as "proof" that there isn't a competitive balance issue in the league.  Cleveland and Tampa Bay are good at fielding winning teams, but then every couple of years they have to start all over again when most of their good players "graduate" to one of the big market teams.  The latest example of this is Shane Bieber.

[The Mighty Mite]

16 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

MLB is more and more becoming a sport for the mega metropolises where teams bring in big bucks.   Mid-market and small market teams can no longer sustain success and fan support/fan interest will suffer outside of the biggest cities.  It looks like the Cardinals are sliding into mediocrity as part of this trend.  Same with the Twins - a team that has long put together competitive teams.  Now they're deeply in debt and have blown everything up at the trade deadline.  Fan support used to be strong in the Twin Cities and it's been sliding in recent years.  

Milwaukee has been a total outlier and shouldn't be used as "proof" that there isn't a competitive balance issue in the league.  Cleveland and Tampa Bay are good at fielding winning teams, but then every couple of years they have to start all over again when most of their good players "graduate" to one of the big market teams.  The latest example of this is Shane Bieber.

At some the point high ticket prices along with the prices of everything else at the ballparks will reach a point where fans will say enough is enough, this just might be what is going on in St. Louis and other small market clubs.

Edited August 11 by The Mighty Mite

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

At some the point high ticket prices along with the prices of everything else at the ballparks will reach a point where fans will say enough is enough, this just might be what is going on in St. Louis and other small market clubs.

Eh.  The first time I remember reading this was said about baseball was when Babe Ruth got a salary that was higher than the President of the United States, and the media had a field day with it.

[The Mighty Mite]

32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Eh.  The first time I remember reading this was said about baseball was when Babe Ruth got a salary that was higher than the President of the United States, and the media had a field day with it.

If ticket prices went up, they didn’t go up much, we could go to Sox or Cubs game in the late 1950s for a dollar for an unreserved grandstand seat and 75 cents to sit in the bleachers.

Kids paid 10 cents for a bus or L ride to the ballparks.

 

 

 

Edited August 11 by The Mighty Mite

[southsider2k5]

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

If ticket prices went up, they didn’t go up much, we could go to Sox or Cubs game in the late 1950s for a dollar for an unreserved grandstand seat and 75 cents to sit in the bleachers.

Kids paid 10 cents for a bus or L ride to the ballparks.

 

 

 

Sure, and now someone making six figures doesn't make them rich either.  Times have changed.  Sports never seem to get hit.

[nrockway]

5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

One of the craziest funniest drag bunts in history 

 

while I have to admit there was a very exciting aspect of the home plate collision, the damage that those collisions caused far outweighed the benefits.  Catchers shouldn’t get trucked while waiting and looking for the ball

that O'Neil Cruz injury vs the Sox last season was tough to watch. I agree it's exciting, just not worth it. 

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, nrockway said:

that O'Neil Cruz injury vs the Sox last season was tough to watch. I agree it's exciting, just not worth it. 

By all accounts Ray Fosse was having a awesome career when Pete Rose ended it -in an all star game-

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Feels like everyone is noticing how rough it’s been the last couple years.  Usually that changes a few things on the ref side that everyone will dislike equally, however it keeps players safer 

Arguably four of the Top Ten players are out with extended injuries…Reese at least in terms of name recognition.

Clark, Collier (MVP favorite), Stewart, Reese

Paige Bueckers has been hurt a lot too…and they’re not guarding her 94 feet with double teams and traps like they do with Clark.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

MLB is more and more becoming a sport for the mega metropolises where teams bring in big bucks.   Mid-market and small market teams can no longer sustain success and fan support/fan interest will suffer outside of the biggest cities.  It looks like the Cardinals are sliding into mediocrity as part of this trend.  Same with the Twins - a team that has long put together competitive teams.  Now they're deeply in debt and have blown everything up at the trade deadline.  Fan support used to be strong in the Twin Cities and it's been sliding in recent years.  

Milwaukee has been a total outlier and shouldn't be used as "proof" that there isn't a competitive balance issue in the league.  Cleveland and Tampa Bay are good at fielding winning teams, but then every couple of years they have to start all over again when most of their good players "graduate" to one of the big market teams.  The latest example of this is Shane Bieber.

They simply couldn’t take the risk of an extension without major incentives.

Naylor gone, Kwan likely out soon (trade in offseason) as they turn to impressive minor league depth.

 

Baltimore broke through for two years…Cleveland could make the WC.

Seattle and SD are decidedly not first tier markets.  Detroit as well this year.

But it’s really really tough now at below a $150 million payroll.

Fwiw the A’s will be a real interesting case with their young lineup.

[Sox guy]

I don't know what I'd do if the Sox blew it up again, it's already painful to see Sale, Cease, Crochet, etc. on other teams. If they take this current crop away from us, I might be done.  Having aaa teams within MLB is ridiculous.  

On 8/11/2025 at 3:24 PM, The Mighty Mite said:

 

Kids paid 10 cents for a bus or L ride to the ballparks.

 

 

 

I'll never forget the first time I was informed that the South Side used to be different in the old days.  I was a kid, and an older person told me about how kids and teens would take the 63rd street bus all the way to the lake for a day at the beach.  He said the busses were packed with youth with their beach gear, a festive atmosphere going past streets like Kedsie, California, Western, Halsted, on the way east.  It was anathema to me that those areas were safe enough for kids from out west to travel thru there on the cta.  Mind blowing even, I couldn't imagine those spots looking any different.  When I think of streets like Racine and Loomis, I definitely get a different picture based on experience.

 

Recently, another viet nam vet told me about where he grew up on the SE side, and my response was "oh, the Wild Hunneds", as it's known today. It wasn't like that in his day, polarly different.  

Edited August 14 by Sox guy