ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Ptac was predictable...Eddy same. Was expecting Cali as well. 41/60 or almost 70% and a clear majority have given a C or D. One of the B votes is a Getz family member...j/k. Have never seen a "Constructive Summer" post b4. You could at least getting my name right when you want to stereotype me by your bias. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 (edited) https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/chicago-white-sox/ 2025 opening day payroll $74,108,625 (29) - Dollar Store budget 2024 opening day payroll $123,089,383 (20) Solidified manager position with Venable. +19 wins 2025 youth additions Montgomery, Quero, Meidroth, Teel, Smith, Vasil. 2025 development Sosa, Vargas 2025 - Baron's win Southern League title 2025- Bonemer named Carolina League MVP. Edited September 30 by Falstaff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The amount of B's is incredible. The past year, Getz cut payroll 50+ million to the lowest it's been in over two decades! He also had a farm system (pre-Crochet trade) that was ranked in the top 11 everywhere. One year later, that farm system is in the back half of all rankings in the league - meaning it got worse. The reason the Sox were competitive was because of a pick Getz didn't make (Colson) and since we're not giving him any blame for his tenure prior to his current role, he certainly deserves no credit. So the Sox had the 2nd worst record in baseball, they were the cheapest they've been in 20+ years, and their farm system got worse YoY despite still being the worst team in the AL. Somehow, in the mind of some fans, he's done B work. I hope you all aren't educating our youth with those standards. The Jerry/Getz strategy is working! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The amount of B's is incredible. The past year, Getz cut payroll 50+ million to the lowest it's been in over two decades! He also had a farm system (pre-Crochet trade) that was ranked in the top 11 everywhere. One year later, that farm system is in the back half of all rankings in the league - meaning it got worse. The reason the Sox were competitive was because of a pick Getz didn't make (Colson) and since we're not giving him any blame for his tenure prior to his current role, he certainly deserves no credit. So the Sox had the 2nd worst record in baseball, they were the cheapest they've been in 20+ years, and their farm system got worse YoY despite still being the worst team in the AL. Somehow, in the mind of some fans, he's done B work. I hope you all aren't educating our youth with those standards. My grade was based what he did for yhe entire organization not just the MLB team. If the question was what happened only at the MLB level the answer would be different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: My grade was based what he did for yhe entire organization not just the MLB team. If the question was what happened only at the MLB level the answer would be different. The best prospects in the system got worse, though? The system in general regressed from where it was viewed a year prior. While Teel looked great, it cost a top 5 pitcher in baseball this year to acquire him so the celebration there by Sox fans has just been odd. Montgomery wasn't even a Getz guy. Hiring middle managers and buying some belts and cameras that everyone else has isn't winning a World Series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The best prospects in the system got worse, though? The system in general regressed from where it was viewed a year prior. While Teel looked great, it cost a top 5 pitcher in baseball this year to acquire him so the celebration there by Sox fans has just been odd. Montgomery wasn't even a Getz guy. Hiring middle managers and buying some belts and cameras that everyone else has isn't winning a World Series. Some of the prospects did some excelled. Bonemer was a league MVP. Montgomery did well through the system. The changes they made with Smith didn't work early but did well later. McDougal took a massive jump forward. My overall grade is based in the fact that we all know JR isnt going to spend for big free agents. So the only real option for Getz to have a winning team is to draft well and develop them. I like all of the changes they made for development. The minors as whole are improving. I really like the draft of the two high school kids. The new complex in yhe DR will help the international players as well. The down side is that all of it takes time. Looking solely at the MLB club this year is short sighted. I get it they sucked but I think they also achieved the goals this year. First and foremost get the best odds for a top draft pick. Second show progress from the young players. What they did with Montgomery is outstanding. He looked like he may never make the MLB. We became an above average MLB shortstop after all they issues. So overall, a B for the organization progress, not necessarily the MLB club in isolation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 13 minutes ago, ptatc said: Some of the prospects did some excelled. Bonemer was a league MVP. Montgomery did well through the system. The changes they made with Smith didn't work early but did well later. McDougal took a massive jump forward. My overall grade is based in the fact that we all know JR isnt going to spend for big free agents. So the only real option for Getz to have a winning team is to draft well and develop them. I like all of the changes they made for development. The minors as whole are improving. I really like the draft of the two high school kids. The new complex in yhe DR will help the international players as well. The down side is that all of it takes time. Looking solely at the MLB club this year is short sighted. I get it they sucked but I think they also achieved the goals this year. First and foremost get the best odds for a top draft pick. Second show progress from the young players. What they did with Montgomery is outstanding. He looked like he may never make the MLB. We became an above average MLB shortstop after all they issues. So overall, a B for the organization progress, not necessarily the MLB club in isolation. In Hagen Smith's last 4 starts he threw 16.2 innings and walked 16 guys. They fixed him? All systems will have some guys get better. Some fans are acting like no other teams have guys who they draft play well. Bonemer has been good and will get his name on some top 100 lists for sure. McDougal is a 45 prospect, nothing to hang your hat on. Meanwhile Smith looks like a reliever and Schultz went from a bonafide stud to a huge question mark. Help me understand how are the minors improving when the players are regressing and the system took a step back? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: In Hagen Smith's last 4 starts he threw 16.2 innings and walked 16 guys. They fixed him? All systems will have some guys get better. Some fans are acting like no other teams have guys who they draft play well. Bonemer has been good and will get his name on some top 100 lists for sure. McDougal is a 45 prospect, nothing to hang your hat on. Meanwhile Smith looks like a reliever and Schultz went from a bonafide stud to a huge question mark. Help me understand how are the minors improving when the players are regressing and the system took a step back? You mentioned a few regressing, I mentioned a few progressing. The system isnt perfect here everyone is progressing. Both Montgomery progressed. With McDougals stuff he is more than a 45 if he maintains the control which progressed this year. I disagree Smith is a reliever. Schultz is a question mark due to health. Quero is also a positive. If you want to dive deep antonacchi looks to he an MLB piece. There are few few relievers who progressed as well. The draft philosophy is also a positive. I know we are going to agree but there are many positives especially in the lower levels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 It was mentioned that Burke and Montgomery are recruiting other members of the core to off season in Nashville. Montgomery and Vargas busting it down the line in the top of the ninth leading 8-0 in the last game of the season. They got something going with the youngsters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 hours ago, Falstaff said: Solidified manager position with Venable. The book is certainly still open on that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Hiring middle managers and buying some belts and cameras that everyone else has isn't winning a World Series. I believe I just read the most ridiculous line written here in the last year. Somebody questioned the value of having data three days earlier back in July, and this tops that plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, FloydBannister1983 said: The book is certainly still open on that... Interesting, I haven't heard that, do you have any sources? Who is being considered to replace Veneable? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 hours ago, ptatc said: You could at least getting my name right when you want to stereotype me by your bias. fine Physical/Physiological Therapy Athletic Trainer Certified/Coaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 hours ago, ptatc said: You mentioned a few regressing, I mentioned a few progressing. The system isnt perfect here everyone is progressing. Both Montgomery progressed. With McDougals stuff he is more than a 45 if he maintains the control which progressed this year. I disagree Smith is a reliever. Schultz is a question mark due to health. Quero is also a positive. If you want to dive deep antonacchi looks to he an MLB piece. There are few few relievers who progressed as well. The draft philosophy is also a positive. I know we are going to agree but there are many positives especially in the lower levels. Quero finished as a net negative in fWAR. Not very easy for a primary catcher to pull off. Maybe bWAR has a different reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Quero finished as a net negative in fWAR. Not very easy for a primary catcher to pull off. Maybe bWAR has a different reading. Quero was worth 1.2 bWAR. Baseball Prospectus had Quero near the bottom in catching defense with an overall -9.1 runs saved. Teel ranked for favorably, with 1.2 runs saved. They like his framing. Quero gets dinged mostly for his framing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Quero was worth 1.2 bWAR. Baseball Prospectus had Quero near the bottom in catching defense with an overall -9.1 runs saved. Teel ranked for favorably, with 1.2 runs saved. They like his framing. Quero gets dinged mostly for his framing. Probably why Teel won't be at a corner OF spot or 1B at least for another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 40 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: fine Physical/Physiological Therapy Athletic Trainer Certified/Coaching You are being super extra in this thread. Refusing to pick a grade because you can’t pick C- and D+ and then calling out two people specifically for issuing a B? Odd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I believe I just read the most ridiculous line written here in the last year. Somebody questioned the value of having data three days earlier back in July, and this tops that plenty. Oh yes, The cloud! How could we forget. That must have added at least 10 wins. What's ridiculous is you thinking org structures are what wins in professional sports. Garbage in is garbage out in the data world, and the Sox have a ton of garbage going in. While I don't bow at the gospel of public rankings, it's really all we have to go off of as it relates to league perspectives. The Sox farm system got worse and it had nothing to do with graduations, and their most valuable pieces lost a lot of shine. You can put your fingers and your ears and scream as to not hear the truth, but if the farm and development are the secret to the Sox success it appears they're heading in the wrong direction, and if that's what we're hanging Getz success on then IDK what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: While I don't bow at the gospel of public rankings, it's really all we have to go off of as it relates to league perspectives. So then you proceed to bow at the gospel of listicles. #18 had us gasping!! Improving communication, processes, and information gathering is the wrong direction? Your argument is always "there is no reason to be positive". Can you help me understand why, then, you feel the need to mock the people who do feel positive? When you challenge people to explain themselves and they do, you break it down to getting data earlier, wearing belts and buying a camera? Dude, you're a troll, and not even an interesting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: So then you proceed to bow at the gospel of listicles. #18 had us gasping!! Improving communication, processes, and information gathering is the wrong direction? Your argument is always "there is no reason to be positive". Can you help me understand why, then, you feel the need to mock the people who do feel positive? When you challenge people to explain themselves and they do, you break it down to getting data earlier, wearing belts and buying a camera? Dude, you're a troll, and not even an interesting one. Yet you keep responding to him like your job depends on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 6 minutes ago, WestEddy said: So then you proceed to bow at the gospel of listicles. #18 had us gasping!! Improving communication, processes, and information gathering is the wrong direction? Your argument is always "there is no reason to be positive". Can you help me understand why, then, you feel the need to mock the people who do feel positive? When you challenge people to explain themselves and they do, you break it down to getting data earlier, wearing belts and buying a camera? Dude, you're a troll, and not even an interesting one. Sports are a results centered industry, not process centered. The things you list only matter if you get results. Otherwise they're just pathways of distributing garbage. Improving "process" so it can be run by incompetent people isnt a win in any regard. My argument has not always been there's no reason to be positive, but I am honest about one of the worst GMs in professional sports. the Sox never lost more than 101 games in my lifetime until last year. Now they've done it two years in a row. Theyre running record low payrolls relatively speaking. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 (edited) WestEddy acts like he's behind the scenes with the White Sox assessing their day to day processes and value add from data implementation perspective. Sam Hinkie Jr over here. "Trust the process." No matter the results. Edited September 30 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: fine Physical/Physiological Therapy Athletic Trainer Certified/Coaching Not the licenses, the actual name. Its ptatc not ptac. Although the are my medical licenses. Edited September 30 by ptatc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 41 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Sports are a results centered industry, not process centered. The things you list only matter if you get results. Otherwise they're just pathways of distributing garbage. Improving "process" so it can be run by incompetent people isnt a win in any regard. My argument has not always been there's no reason to be positive, but I am honest about one of the worst GMs in professional sports. the Sox never lost more than 101 games in my lifetime until last year. Now they've done it two years in a row. Theyre running record low payrolls relatively speaking. I disagree with the process doesn't matter. The White Sox have been terrible with developing hitters in the past. Changing the development process is a key point. When you are drafting teenagers development is paramount. I agree in the end, results are what matter. However, expecting those results to appear overnight is short sighted and what leads to organizations having 1 good season every decade because they happen to get lucky with free agents. Look at the historically good teams over time and they are usually built around drafting and developing their own players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 11 minutes ago, ptatc said: Not the licenses, the actual name. Its ptatc not ptac. Although the are my medical licenses. FWIW in my head I pronounce it Pitatch 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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