19 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Maybe I am mistaken but Getz became GM with Robert coming off of the best season in his career.  Getz immediately started another rebuild, waited too long to trade Robert, and watched his value diminish into that of a utility player.

If Getz can get praised for the Crochet trade, he should definitely be dumped on for this Robert trade.

This is way too simplistic of an assessment.  First & foremost, the infrastructure of the org was complete garbage.  Look at the initial wave of trades Getz made and how bad they were.  Most of them were small stakes but failed.  He did make the Cease trade and that one looks very uninspiring at the moment.  Holding off on trading a guy who just had an insane year to allow yourself more time to make improvements in pro scouting & R&D and hopefully improve the likelihood of a good return isn’t necessarily a crazy proposition.  We also have no idea what other teams were offering back then.  This idea you can just force a trade is absurd, the market has to be there and that’s not always the case when trading a premium asset whose value is tied heavily to team control.  No doubt he should have traded him using hindsight, but that’s a really bad way to evaluate a decision making process.

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is way too simplistic of an assessment.  First & foremost, the infrastructure of the org was complete garbage.  Look at the initial wave of trades Getz made and how bad they were.  Most of them were small stakes but failed.  He did make the Cease trade and that one looks very uninspiring at the moment.  Holding off on trading a guy who just had an insane year to allow yourself more time to make improvements in pro scouting & R&D and hopefully improve the likelihood of a good return isn’t necessarily a crazy proposition.  We also have no idea what other teams were offering back then.  This idea you can just force a trade is absurd, the market has to be there and that’s not always the case when trading a premium asset whose value is tied heavily to team control.  No doubt he should have traded him using hindsight, but that’s a really bad way to evaluate a decision making process.

I'd like somebody to tell us if, when and how bad Colson Montgomery will be injured in the future so Getz could be sure to trade him when he's at his peak value. 

15 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The White Sox can't think too much of Pauley. He threw 4 innings after they passed him up 12 times.

This is entirely untrue.  The Sox went overslot on their 2nd and 4th round picks by a combined $1.1M and had to go multiple spots under slot and were limited how big of a bonus the could pay in rounds 11 & later (mostly capped at $150k).  As such, they only had six total picks with a bonus above Pauley’s and the 5th & 6th round picks within range of Pauley’s payout were generally considered better prospects.  None of that means they didn’t like Pauley at the time of the draft.

Contract the franchise imo

13 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Payroll sits at 67 million. Lowest in baseball. We had a higher payroll 22 years ago, for reference. 

Don’t let Jerry know about this thing called inflation or it’s even more embarrassing.

1 hour ago, PaleAleSox said:

Everyone else that has left has been pretty much the exact same player. 

Andrew Vaughn would like a word.

 

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is entirely untrue.  The Sox went overslot on their 2nd and 4th round picks by a combined $1.1M and had to go multiple spots under slot and were limited how big of a bonus the could pay in rounds 11 & later (mostly capped at $150k).  As such, they only had six total picks with a bonus above Pauley’s and the 5th & 6th round picks within range of Pauley’s payout were generally considered better prospects.  None of that means they didn’t like Pauley at the time of the draft.

This really doesn’t mean all that much.  The truth of the matter is that the Sox couldn’t even get a secondary piece that was on the Mets top 30 prospect list.  His perceived value does not match his supposed talent.

11 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Fully expect a 3-4 WAR season from Robert. Or he plays 30 games. Itll be one of those. 

I 100% think he rebounds with the bat, at least to slightly above league average levels.  Can’t comment on his health.  Feels like his big problem is his body is too muscular and tight and without an offseason to train differently, I’m not sure what a new club could do there.

11 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If the Sox are indeed at $67 million in payroll for 2026, I believe they currently have the lowest payroll in baseball.

It’s a fucking embarrassment.  I still think they add a bit more, but with Robert gone being close to dead last is inevitable.  Hopefully Jerry’s loser kids use that money on the Bulls one day and sneak into the luxury tax (not happening obviously).

Edited January 22Jan 22 by Chicago White Sox

11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Worst SP and worst OF in the MLB.

Can't believe some think this team can be remotely competitive.

I'm not really that interested in a guy who has a bad hit tool AND has no power. Guys like that don't exactly have a strong track record of breaking out. Speed and defense don't matter when you can't hit the ball. 

Another Fuller MEME though, so we got that going for us.

I don’t agree that he has no raw power.

51 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'd like somebody to tell us if, when and how bad Colson Montgomery will be injured in the future so Getz could be sure to trade him when he's at his peak value. 

This is not even close to a good comparison, considering the situation at the time (Getz’s own plan).  Once Getz was promoted to GM at the end of the 2023 season and the most productive season of Robert’s career, Getz began his rebuild.  Rebuilds by your own words take around 5 years to see to fruition.  At this point in time, the Sox had Robert locked up for a maximum of 4 more years which means Robert wouldn’t likely still be under contract by the next time the Sox were in competition for the division (once again, your own 5-year timeline for a rebuild).  Here were Robert’s salaries for those 4 upcoming years.

2024:  $12.5M

2025:  $15M

2026:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

2027:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

How is this a good comparison to knowing when to trade Colson Montgomery, considering he was just called up last year and is under control at cheap salaries up until he becomes a free agent in 2032, which should also be within your 5-year timeline to see Getz’s rebuild to fruition?

It is on one guy to know when to hold em and when to fold em, to know when to sell his players at the right time, and that is the GM.  Getz held onto Robert until his value declined so much that all he could get was yet another former post-hype top prospect who has already lost his luster.  No different than a Vargas or Mead.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2023 season, would he have received a better return than this?  Yes, undoubtedly.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2024 season, would he have received a better return than this?  Yes, undoubtedly.

Instead, Getz waited until Robert put up two subpar seasons in a row and got back peanuts for him.

Edited January 22Jan 22 by WhiteSox2023

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Andrew Vaughn would like a word.

 

Meh. He was hot for a good while and then was pretty bad again. 

2 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

Meh. He was hot for a good while and then was pretty bad again. 

2026 will likely tell the story, one way or another.  But I know Vaughn doesn’t get $7.65 million for next season if he is never traded to the Brewers.

6 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I don't get that last part. He was saying that Pete Fairbanks was going to get somewhere in the $40M guaranteed range. 

I was just kidding…Caulfield banned regardless!

25 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

This is not even close to a good comparison, considering the situation at the time (Getz’s own plan).  Once Getz was promoted to GM at the end of the 2023 season and the most productive season of Robert’s career, Getz began his rebuild.  Rebuilds by your own words take around 5 years to see to fruition.  At this point in time, the Sox had Robert locked up for a maximum of 4 more years which means Robert wouldn’t likely still be under contract by the next time the Sox were in competition for the division (once again, your own 5-year timeline for a rebuild).  Here were Robert’s salaries for those 4 upcoming years.

2024:  $12.5M

2025:  $15M

2026:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

2027:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

How is this a good comparison to knowing when to trade Colson Montgomery, considering he was just called up last year and is under control at cheap salaries up until he becomes a free agent in 2032, which should also be within your 5-year timeline to see Getz’s rebuild to fruition?

It is on one guy to know when to hold em and when to fold em, to know when to sell his players at the right time, and that is the GM.  Getz held onto Robert until his value declined so much that all he could get was yet another former post-hype top prospect who has already lost his luster.  No different than a Vargas or Mead.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2023 season, would he have received a better return than this?  Yes, undoubtedly.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2024 season, would he have received a better return than this?  Yes, undoubtedly.

Instead, Getz waited until Robert put up two subpar seasons in a row and got back peanuts for him.

Hard to argue with your timeline. It's good that Getz got something at all for him (and JR is VERY happy the Mets took on the entire salary) but it is a fact the Sox were going nowhere but to stinktown right after Robert had his very good year.

Why Getz decided to keep him given the state of the franchise/organization is a real mystery to me. 

4 hours ago, ChiSoxFanMike said:

The other thing I don’t understand about this is the timing. If they were going to dump Robert all along, why not do it at the beginning of the offseason? Because at this point, the free agent group is pretty picked over.

Because the team that just traded for Robert was probably waiting on other, more preferable OF options first.  I’m also assuming the Sox couldn’t find a deal with a smaller market club that warranted eating half the contract.

Timing does suck though, but most of the SP’s we could afford are still left.  Let’s see if they even go that route vs. just more dumpster diving.

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Hard to argue with your timeline. It's good that Getz got something at all for him (and JR is VERY happy the Mets took on the entire salary) but it is a fact the Sox were going nowhere but to stinktown right after Robert had his very good year.

Why Getz decided to keep him given the state of the franchise/organization is a real mystery to me. 

Sadly, once I get over the shock of this trade I’ll be happy he even got back Acuna.  But yeah, it could have been a better return regardless.

And yes, Getz’s own strategy and timeline once he was promoted have to be considered, along with the state of the team at the time, which makes your last paragraph a mystery.

5 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

I’ll also add that I don’t necessarily have a problem with Getz having held Robert this long. Obviously I’d have to see what the offers were to be certain, but the reality is that he’s been at least a reasonable bet to have a way better season than his last every year of his career. At the end of the day, he just never bounced back. It didn’t work out but the gamble was always defensible.

The issue I have is being cheap when you still had one more chance to roll the dice. $20M is a lot of money, sure, but the payroll even WITH him was set to be in the $80-something range, which is borderline malpractice to begin with.

Serious question, as someone who doesn’t follow anything but baseball really: Is there a major sports franchise that’s less fun to root for?

Fully agree.  I wouldn’t have rolled the dice once more time over this return.

25 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

This is not even close to a good comparison, considering the situation at the time (Getz’s own plan).  Once Getz was promoted to GM at the end of the 2023 season and the most productive season of Robert’s career, Getz began his rebuild.  Rebuilds by your own words take around 5 years to see to fruition.  At this point in time, the Sox had Robert locked up for a maximum of 4 more years which means Robert wouldn’t likely still be under contract by the next time the Sox were in competition for the division (once again, your own 5 year timeline for a rebuild).  Here were Robert’s salaries for those 4 upcoming years.

2024:  $12.5M

2025:  $15M

2026:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

2027:  $20M club option ($2M buyout)

How is this a good comparison to knowing when to trade Colson Montgomery, considering he was just called up last year and is under control at cheap salaries up until he becomes a free agent in 2032, which should also be within your 5-year timeline to see Getz’s rebuild to fruition?

It is on one guy to know when to hold em and when to fold em, to know when to sell his players at the right time, and that is the GM.  Getz held onto Robert until his value declined so much that all he could get was yet another former post-hype top prospect who has already lost his luster.  No different than a Vargas or Mead.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2023 season, would he have received a better return?  Yes, undoubtedly.

If Getz traded Robert after the 2024 season, would he have received a better return?  Yes, undoubtedly.

Instead, Getz waited until Robert put up two subpar seasons in a row and got back peanuts for him.

It's not a good comparison. They're 2 stupid premises. There was no rush to trade a player who just started to show his promise. You're also pretending that everything we know now was obvious then. I'll give you that Getz should have taken the Reds' offer last off-season. Was that Edwin Arroyo and a pitcher? But even with that, we're still pretending that it was obvious that Robert wasn't going to snap back and have a strong 2025. 

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Sadly, once I get over the shock of this trade I’ll be happy he even got back Acuna.  But yeah, it could have been a better return regardless.

And yes, Getz’s own strategy and timeline once he was promoted have to be considered, along with the state of the team at the time, which makes your last paragraph a mystery.

I think Getz tried to be as cautious as he could. He ended up cleaning out pro scouting after that off-season. I don't even remember what trade rumors went around with Cease, Eloy and Yoan. Vaughn. Yes, that off-season would have been the perfect time to trade Robert, just as one week before the great crash of '29 would have been a great time to divest from the stock market. 

There was no rush with Robert if he was going to be pretty much the player he just was. 

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because the team that just traded for Robert was probably waiting on other, more preferable OF options first.  I’m also assuming the Sox couldn’t find a deal with a smaller market club that warranted eating half the contract.

Timing does suck though, but most of the SP’s we could afford are still left.  Let’s see if they even go that route vs. just more dumpster diving.

Do we still even know if Jerry would have approved including cash in a Robert trade to increase the return?  Has he done this before?

And no, I’m not including the Eloy trade in which cash was sent to the Orioles.  That was still a cash dump trade in which the Sox still lowered their payroll for the season without getting anything in return (a reliever that retired).

Edited January 22Jan 22 by WhiteSox2023

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The ban bet only lasts until the offseason is over.  No one is safe for much longer…

The offseason doesn’t end until Opening Day per betting purposes, so he’s going to be in the penalty box a while longer.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The offseason doesn’t end until Opening Day per betting purposes, so he’s going to be in the penalty box a while longer.

Man, I bet he is wishing he said “until ST starts” right about now…

Over the last 4 seasons, Robert missed 195 games. More than an entire season worth of games. 

The real question should be, who’s going to play CF if Robert was still on the team.

27 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Do we still even know if Jerry would have approved including cash in a Robert trade to increase the return?  Has he done this before?

And no, I’m not including the Eloy trade in which cash was sent to the Orioles.  That was still a cash dump trade in which the Sox still lowered their payroll for the season without getting anything in return (a reliever that retired).

Closest thing I can think of is they picked up Alex Rios' waiver and then took on his salary basically "for free". Amazingly the Sox agreed to pickup the 58.7 million left on his deal just to improve the team -- 16 years ago.  

JR wasn't always such a stooge but his time is long over as anything but a dinosaur. I don't want to defend Getz' overall record, it's mixed to this point at best -- at best -- but he's not operating with any sort of fair deck relative to even the other bottom 1/4 payrolls.