6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even if he never plays defense, his OPS+ last year was good for 24th of the same 34 OFs. He plugs in at 24th of 31 DHs with his LY OPS+.

He's trash.

How much would he even get (as of today) as a FA on a one year deal?

Like a house that homeowners in 07-09 just dumped the keys in the mail box and walked away from. Way underwater.

Edited Thursday at 12:11 AM5 days by caulfield12

Just now, caulfield12 said:

How much would he even get (as of today) as a FA on a one year deal?

Going for a MiLB with invite to ST and a couple million if he makes the team. Looking around baseball where would he go and where would he play? Hell bring me back Kelenic back even.

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Even if he never plays defense, his OPS+ last year was good for 24th of the same 34 OFs. He plugs in at 24th of 31 DHs with his LY OPS+.

He's trash.

Doesn't change anything I said. Being 24th of 31 almost further iterates my point.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Doesn't change anything I said. Being 24th of 31 almost further iterates my point.

He's league average if you ignore the fact he can't carry a glove. If you place him with his peers he is not average. It's not like he is playing 2nd or catching with that bat.

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's league average if you ignore the fact he can't carry a glove. If you place him with his peers he is not average. It's not like he is playing 2nd or catching with that bat.

At least at DH he isn’t hurting his value even more by playing defense. But then he’s still a weak DH offensively.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's league average if you ignore the fact he can't carry a glove. If you place him with his peers he is not average. It's not like he is playing 2nd or catching with that bat.

The league avg OPS+ for all DH AB's last year was 110. Benetendi was 6% worse than that.

What I said was he was better than league average as a hitter, therefore not some black hole in the lineup.

Given that DH really isn't an assigned position on most teams, if you look at guys with >100 AB's at the position last year, he would be about 23 out of 61 players. If you remove Shoehei from the sample, Benetendi is basically league average (2% worse).

Edited Thursday at 12:26 AM5 days by Look at Ray Ray Run

Is he still a good influence on young players, though?

At the end of the 2024 season, definitely.

But surely he'd rather be almost anywhere else the next two seasons.

As long as he isn't in the field Benintendi has some value in the lineup. He hit 20 home runs last year, ideally he should be hitting 6th or 7th and not clean up

24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The league avg OPS+ for all DH AB's last year was 110. Benetendi was 6% worse than that.

What I said was he was better than league average as a hitter, therefore not some black hole in the lineup.

Given that DH really isn't an assigned position on most teams, if you look at guys with >100 AB's at the position last year, he would be about 23 out of 61 players. If you remove Shoehei from the sample, Benetendi is basically league average (2% worse).

At best, if this dude is your DH, you are actively looking for options to replace him. I am looking at full time DHs because that's what we were talking about. If he isn't DHing, but still playing, he is actively hurting the team which is worse than full time DH. The other half of that being the obvious thing that there is no reason the Sox couldn't ditch him for a more active rotation of DHs around this roster and get that same wonderful "league average" production with someone like Sosa as a "primary" and the rotating the other OF, Mune, Vargas, Colson, and anyone else for a day off of defense, into DH.

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, my implication is this front office has no idea how to target talent they can maximize or find undervalued/utilized assets.

Maybe there amateur scouting has improved, but their pro scouting is a continued disaster.

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't think he should be here anymore, but that's because over 3 years he's been worth .6 WAR total. It's time to move on.

That said, guy had a 104 OPS+ last year. He was a slightly above league average hitter. People talk about him like he's some black hole in a lineup which isn't really true.

The above is fair but it's tough to assume that the Sox didn't take the best offer for Houser "just because" though. I don't think they turned down a bunch of good offers and panicked to settle on the TB package with 5 minutes left in the deadline.

Benintendi had a 97 wRC+ vs RHP last year.

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Benintendi had a 97 wRC+ vs RHP last year.

10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Unfortunately, neither of us know what players or prospects Getz may have turned down in his trades. But we do know the pile of turds he has acquired in some of his deals. Obviously, some of these were minor trades but it just goes back to the idea of poor scouting targeting flawed players.

Samuel Zavala

Zack DeLoach

Dominic Fletcher

Curtis Mead

Braden Shewmake

Corey Julks

Greg Jones

You failed the exercise.The point was that you expect success in exercises of futility. You expect Getz to do the impossible. Its so easy in every organization to find prospects involved in trades that fail because it happens all the time. This is not unique to Getz or baseball. The majority of prospects fail . The Yordan Alvarez'es success stories are rare. Easy to find failures .

You constantly pointing them out is like telling me the sky is blue. It doesnt take a genius to know prospects fail but you have made it an art for pointing out the obvious over and over and over and over...... while barely acknowledging how it's extremely unique pulling Shane Smith and Vasil out of thin air. Youre so consumed with alledged failures that you couldnt even be bothered to look for any successes by all the other GM's in baseball. Yet you pretend it should be so easy to find them for the likes of Adrian Houser ,Austin Slater or the corpse of Eloy Jimenez. Hey heres one for you Tanner Banks got the Sox Bergolla. Not exactly a huge success story yet but thats part of your advantage.I can't yet point out sucess stories because the drafts since Getz became GM have barely had any time yet to develop . Antonacci in the 5th round in 2024 looks promising though.

By the way I have no idea what that article was supposed to show me. To me , Houser is a White Sox success story. They got him for zilch, he pitched great for them for a couple months and they got 3 prospects for him. Sucks that Mead couldnt find his power stroke while playing last year when given the chance. But Houser didnt exactly light the world on fire with TB did he ? That trade is over for them but at least the Sox still have Peoples and Davitt. Maybe Mead clears and comes back to play in AAA. Plus the Sox revived Houser's career and despite him not being able to help TB he still got 2 yrs $22M . Glass half full kind of thing. You wouldnt understand.

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You failed the exercise.The point was that you expect success in exercises of futility. You expect Getz to do the impossible. Its so easy in every organization to find prospects involved in trades that fail because it happens all the time. This is not unique to Getz or baseball. The majority of prospects fail . The Yordan Alvarez'es success stories are rare. Easy to find failures .

You constantly pointing them out is like telling me the sky is blue. It doesnt take a genius to know prospects fail but you have made it an art for pointing out the obvious over and over and over and over...... while barely acknowledging how it's extremely unique pulling Shane Smith and Vasil out of thin air. Youre so consumed with alledged failures that you couldnt even be bothered to look for any successes by all the other GM's in baseball. Yet you pretend it should be so easy to find them for the likes of Adrian Houser ,Austin Slater or the corpse of Eloy Jimenez. Hey heres one for you Tanner Banks got the Sox Bergolla. Not exactly a huge success story yet but thats part of your advantage.I can't yet point out sucess stories because the drafts since Getz became GM have barely had any time yet to develop . Antonacci in the 5th round in 2024 looks promising though.

By the way I have no idea what that article was supposed to show me. To me , Houser is a White Sox success story. They got him for zilch, he pitched great for them for a couple months and they got 3 prospects for him. Sucks that Mead couldnt find his power stroke while playing last year when given the chance. But Houser didnt exactly light the world on fire with TB did he ? That trade is over for them but at least the Sox still have Peoples and Davitt. Maybe Mead clears and comes back to play in AAA. Plus the Sox revived Houser's career and despite him not being able to help TB he still got 2 yrs $22M . Glass half full kind of thing. You wouldnt understand.

No one likes deferring to "experts" and justifying ineptitude quite like you.

What's incredible is youre always quick to give them credit for success (claiming they turned around Houser's career when in fact, Houser used private coaching in that offseason to make his changes), but always excuse the failures.

Edited Thursday at 11:31 AM4 days by Look at Ray Ray Run

Honestly, being the 29th or 28th best team in baseball after 2 1/2 years of rebuilding is hardly some great accomplishment for one to hang their hat on.

Maybe, just maybe they’re less screwed up than the Nationals or Rockies under DePodesta.

That won’t sell many tickets, though.

59 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You failed the exercise.The point was that you expect success in exercises of futility. You expect Getz to do the impossible. Its so easy in every organization to find prospects involved in trades that fail because it happens all the time. This is not unique to Getz or baseball. The majority of prospects fail . The Yordan Alvarez'es success stories are rare. Easy to find failures .

You constantly pointing them out is like telling me the sky is blue. It doesnt take a genius to know prospects fail but you have made it an art for pointing out the obvious over and over and over and over...... while barely acknowledging how it's extremely unique pulling Shane Smith and Vasil out of thin air. Youre so consumed with alledged failures that you couldnt even be bothered to look for any successes by all the other GM's in baseball. Yet you pretend it should be so easy to find them for the likes of Adrian Houser ,Austin Slater or the corpse of Eloy Jimenez. Hey heres one for you Tanner Banks got the Sox Bergolla. Not exactly a huge success story yet but thats part of your advantage.I can't yet point out sucess stories because the drafts since Getz became GM have barely had any time yet to develop . Antonacci in the 5th round in 2024 looks promising though.

By the way I have no idea what that article was supposed to show me. To me , Houser is a White Sox success story. They got him for zilch, he pitched great for them for a couple months and they got 3 prospects for him. Sucks that Mead couldnt find his power stroke while playing last year when given the chance. But Houser didnt exactly light the world on fire with TB did he ? That trade is over for them but at least the Sox still have Peoples and Davitt. Maybe Mead clears and comes back to play in AAA. Plus the Sox revived Houser's career and despite him not being able to help TB he still got 2 yrs $22M . Glass half full kind of thing. You wouldnt understand.

I failed the exercise? You wrote an essay and didn’t really prove me wrong. I don’t expect Getz to do the impossible. I also never mentioned acquiring pitching, as the Sox seem to be able to do that fairly well. I do expect him to be able to acquire more position player talent than he has. Also, I’m not banking on a Madrigal-sized infielder in Bergolla with only 1 HR in over 1,000 MILB at bats amounting to anything in the majors. But hopefully Antonacci is the real deal.

18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I failed the exercise? You wrote an essay and didn’t really prove me wrong. I don’t expect Getz to do the impossible. I also never mentioned acquiring pitching, as the Sox seem to be able to do that fairly well. I do expect him to be able to acquire more position player talent than he has. Also, I’m not banking on a Madrigal-sized infielder in Bergolla with only 1 HR in over 1,000 MILB at bats amounting to anything in the majors. But hopefully Antonacci is the real deal.

Imagine thinking it's unique and rare to find Mike Vasil's. This guy should get his Vasoline ready for Getzy.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Imagine thinking it's unique and rare to find Mike Vasil's. This guy should get his Vasoline ready for Getzy.

I wasn’t aware of Houser’s offseason work with private coaching and training but Google confirmed it. I shared a screenshot below. Apparently, Houser also dieted and got a lot stronger.

In his previous post, Cali gave credit to the Sox for reviving Houser’s career but then mentioned how he didn’t pitch as well once he was traded to the Rays. However, Cali noted that Houser still received a nice contract this offseason from the Giants (2-years, $22 million).

But Houser was actually traded at his peak value when he was pitching great for the Sox, so why doesn’t Cali question that the headliner in the trade return has already been cut after only 8 months since the trade? Instead he simply says, “Sucks that Mead couldnt find his power stroke while playing last year when given the chance.” No, what sucks is that Getz apparently targeted yet another mediocre player who couldn’t even last on the roster until the start of the next season.

Edited Thursday at 01:02 PM4 days by WhiteSox2023

22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I wasn’t aware of Houser’s offseason work with private coaching and training but Google confirmed it. I shared a screenshot below. Apparently, Houser also dieted and got a lot stronger.

In his previous post, Cali gave credit to the Sox for reviving Houser’s career but then mentioned how he didn’t pitch as well once he was traded to the Rays. However, Cali noted that Houser still received a nice contract this offseason from the Giants (2-years, $22 million).

But Houser was actually traded at his peak value when he was pitching great for the Sox, so why doesn’t Cali question that the headliner in the trade return has already been cut after only 8 months since the trade? Instead he simply says, “Sucks that Mead couldnt find his power stroke while playing last year when given the chance.” No, what sucks is that Getz apparently targeted yet another mediocre player who couldn’t even last on the roster until the start of the next season.

I posted about it last year. I was surprised he was cut because his stuff played up in spring even if the results weren't great.

I still thought he stunk, so I don't want to pretend I was right there, but i had read about the overhaul after the Sox acquired him.

Edited Thursday at 01:19 PM4 days by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I don’t expect Getz to do the impossible.

You actually do. You expect every single waiver wire pickup that temporarily fills a hole to excel beyond our wildest fantasies. The guys who they didn't pick up and you railed on and on over, they all pretty much failed too. Alexander Canario, Canaan Smith-Njigba, Joey Bart's still a back-up catcher.

I actually think Getz did a good job over time to collect a bunch of infielders to compete for starting jobs. Out of Vargas, Meidroth, Mead and Acuña, they actually had options for 2B and 3B. Now they have a group of ex-prospects to do the same in the OF.

As far as drafting, no, they don't have a top prospect CF in the system, but we will probably see Braden Montgomery and San Antonacci taking reps in the corners this season, with guys like Bonemer and Lodise right behind them.

Also, the Sox had a pitching infrastructure in place a full season before they created the ability to work with hitters adequately.

Edited Thursday at 01:59 PM4 days by WestEddy

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Imagine thinking it's unique and rare to find Mike Vasil's. This guy should get his Vasoline ready for Getzy.

Imagine thinking that Vinnie Capra is "better" than Shane Smith because the Brewers chose to keep him on their 40-man, and exposed Smith to the Rule 5 draft. Perhaps you should listen to some "experts". Your gut sucks.

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I failed the exercise? You wrote an essay and didn’t really prove me wrong. I don’t expect Getz to do the impossible. I also never mentioned acquiring pitching, as the Sox seem to be able to do that fairly well. I do expect him to be able to acquire more position player talent than he has. Also, I’m not banking on a Madrigal-sized infielder in Bergolla with only 1 HR in over 1,000 MILB at bats amounting to anything in the majors. But hopefully Antonacci is the real deal.

Its Schroedingers Roster. Simultaneously the best, and the worst, possible roster depending on how you are trying to sell it.

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Imagine thinking that Vinnie Capra is "better" than Shane Smith because the Brewers chose to keep him on their 40-man, and exposed Smith to the Rule 5 draft. Perhaps you should listen to some "experts". Your gut sucks.

Imagine thinking this was actually said so that you could argue against it.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Imagine thinking this was actually said so that you could argue against it.

It was. You agreed with it.

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

You actually do. You expect every single waiver wire pickup that temporarily fills a hole to excel beyond our wildest fantasies. The guys who they didn't pick up and you railed on and on over, they all pretty much failed too. Alexander Canario, Canaan Smith-Njigba, Joey Bart's still a back-up catcher.

I actually think Getz did a good job over time to collect a bunch of infielders to compete for starting jobs. Out of Vargas, Meidroth, Mead and Acuña, they actually had options for 2B and 3B. Now they have a group of ex-prospects to do the same in the OF.

As far as drafting, no, they don't have a top prospect CF in the system, but we will probably see Braden Montgomery and San Antonacci taking reps in the corners this season, with guys like Bonemer and Lodise right behind them.

Also, the Sox had a pitching infrastructure in place a full season before they created the ability to work with hitters adequately.

You are referring to waiver wire pickups that cost almost nothing. I can assure you that I did not expect those guys to succeed 100% of the time, if at all. However, they would have been worth trying out considering the Sox were in the middle of 100+ loss seasons. When your team absolutely sucks, like Getz’s did, you should try out anyone and everyone with some sort of former pedigree, especially when they are basically free.

I previously mentioned several players from Getz’s trades since he became GM, not just waiver wire pickups. Only one of those guys (Samuel Zavala) is still with the team and people pretty much avoid talking about him these days, probably because he has completely fallen off the Sox top 30 prospects list.

Regarding the players you mentioned, Mead is already gone and the jury is still out on Meidroth and Acuna. Even Vargas could be in line to be replaced if he doesn’t improve.

Edited Thursday at 02:57 PM4 days by WhiteSox2023

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

It was. You agreed with it.

It never was. If you believe this, it explains a lot.