53 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Getz has made moves that got this team to .500 a couple years faster than many here thought. For the first time in years we were buyers at the trade deadline and his moves didn't pan out. They were risks and I'm certain the organization knew they were risks. You can make good decisions and have them not work out. Like the lotto tickets I just threw away.

I am interested in what the organization can do with Castillo when they have an entire off season to prepare for next year. It will tell a lot about the organization if they can turn him around. It's been two decades since this sort of project worked out regularly for the team.

I hope you’re right with Castillo but he’s probably toast.

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Wait, I don't know that the ask for other, more controllable pitchers was cost-prohibitive, but you know of other pitchers that were available for cheaper? Let's have that list and what those teams were asking. This is all the same "We coulda had Keaschal!!!!" BS. The FO picks a direction, then you get to crow all of the paths not taken. They have Jesus Bart, now. Why didn't they clinch yet? I'd love to hear your excuse for that.

No, "f@#$%^ up big time" is just another excuse from the glum excuse crowd.

Waiting for a move to play out before I start screaming like a child isn't "making excuses".

We literally saw what rental starters were traded for. We know what the cost was and it wasn’t Bonemer.

The FO picked a direction so therefore it is justified in your book. Apparently they chose a stupid direction. Jokes on Sox fans.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by WhiteSox2023

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

We literally saw what rental starters were traded for. We know what the cost was and it wasn’t Bonemer.

The FO picked a direction so therefore it is justified in your book. Apparently they chose a stupid direction.

Again, it tells me the front office know this team wasn't good enough where adding a few guys could power them through. They were already playing for next year. So far Getz looks right.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, it tells me the front office know this team wasn't good enough where adding a few guys could power them through. They were already playing for next year. So far Getz looks right.

They couldn't have known Mune was going to go into the tank.

He was forecasted to hit 750-775 and then make major adjustments for his second season.

Or that Peters' second half would lead the team, along with Meidroth/Grichuk.

Nobody had Vargas in the Top Ten for MVP votes.

But starting pitching is really the main area pretty much every knomwledgeable fan knew it was going to be a struggle and it was a focus all off season long...and it's still 100% an issue, just confidently naming a G1/2 for the post season.

Relievers patchworked together might be the approach they have to resort to there as well.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

We literally saw what rental starters were traded for. We know what the cost was and it wasn’t Bonemer.

The FO picked a direction so therefore it is justified in your book. Apparently they chose a stupid direction. Jokes on Sox fans.

Yeah, I figured you'd have nothing but excuses.

Weird how I can look back on the past, and be 100% correct on everything, like I already know the outcome. Brazoban was a great trade acquisition. Then he became ineffective. That doesn't make it a bad trade. Joey Bart was a good pickup. Him getting injured doesn't make that a bad trade. Doyle is an elite defensive CF. They thought he'd at least work as a platoon bat who could be parlayed into more next season. The bat hasn't responded quickly enough. Your excuse is that you know he was going to be DFAed on 8/4. I'm not sure why I have to declare that everybody is stupid because a calculated risk hasn't shown the best possible outcome. Castillo has very specific legwork they're targeting.

When the Sox were clearly in rebuild mode, your excuse was somebody said in a speech a year earlier they weren't going to rebuild, so you got to ignore their rebuild, and demand an instant winner. Now that the team's exceeding expectations, your excuse is the team's done with the rebuild you wouldn't even acknowledge and need to trade the whole farm system for mid rentals. If they traded for Robbie Ray, your excuse would be you knew he'd suck.

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, I figured you'd have nothing but excuses.

Weird how I can look back on the past, and be 100% correct on everything, like I already know the outcome. Brazoban was a great trade acquisition. Then he became ineffective. That doesn't make it a bad trade. Joey Bart was a good pickup. Him getting injured doesn't make that a bad trade. Doyle is an elite defensive CF. They thought he'd at least work as a platoon bat who could be parlayed into more next season. The bat hasn't responded quickly enough. Your excuse is that you know he was going to be DFAed on 8/4. I'm not sure why I have to declare that everybody is stupid because a calculated risk hasn't shown the best possible outcome. Castillo has very specific legwork they're targeting.

When the Sox were clearly in rebuild mode, your excuse was somebody said in a speech a year earlier they weren't going to rebuild, so you got to ignore their rebuild, and demand an instant winner. Now that the team's exceeding expectations, your excuse is the team's done with the rebuild you wouldn't even acknowledge and need to trade the whole farm system for mid rentals. If they traded for Robbie Ray, your excuse would be you knew he'd suck.

I got to the 2nd sentence and lold

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I hope you’re right with Castillo but he’s probably toast.

Agreed. I would never bet on anyone with his stat line no matter the franchise he's going to. If someone set the odds of his being a serviceable starter next season he's probably somewhere short of a long shot, but not a favorite. The back end of the rotation will be a battle between can he do it again versus can he reach his potential?

This franchise has always had to rely on some luck to be successful.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I got to the 2nd sentence and lold

I didn’t even make it that far before LOLing.

20 hours ago, WestEddy said:

The entire offense sucks right now. Maybe Detmers and Clay Holmes pick up a couple of wins for them, but they'd cost Bonemer and more. Beyond them, pitchers at the deadline are a coinflip.

If Vargas, Colson, Meidroth and Mune weren't in the toilet for a few weeks, now, they're running away with the division. I understand why people are unhappy with the TDL, but "f@#$%^ up big time" is a bit much. He took on Castillo's salary. I think the restrictions he placed on himself were "don't spend on rentals, and don't give up top prospects". You know, you could just talk about a TDL that didn't work out as intended without shoe-horning in your favorite conspiracy theory that Reinsdorf gave orders to mess up so he could keep more money to rub all over his body.

I looked into what pitchers have done since the deadline by fWAR, and you have Kay at 0.3, Fedde at 0.2, Burke and Urquidy at 0.1, Castillo at -0.2. Of the pitchers traded, here's who would be an improvement (or match Kay):

Skubal (duh) 1.4

Mahle 1.0

Holmes, Kremer 0.5

Peralta, Soriano 0.4

Griffin, Gausman, May 0.3

Everyone else at 0 or negative. Casey Mize (-0.2) and Robbie Ray (-0.3) at the bottom.

In the absolute best case scenario, if the Sox had 100% foresight at the deadline, didn't trade for Castillo, grabbed Mahle and made the same changes the Braves did and one of Holmes/Kremer, they'd have about another win at best, maybe two (+1.6 fWAR), assuming the offense did their job. If they didn't know how to fix Mahle they might have another win. (+1.1 fWAR)

I also checked the bullpen pitchers traded, but from what I can tell the Sox bullpen hasn't been bad. about a 3.5 ERA since the break.

TL;DR - the entire team can't be slumping on offense and win.