soxfan420 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 The last thing I want is the government in control of my life. Some people want to do some things, others want to do something different. The government shouldn't have the power to control our lives. If a draft is needed because of a major major war/threat, then so be it, but to make young people more politically aware, thats freaking BS. I for one don't want to be forced to go to war or have to join the military because some other 20 year old doesn't vote. I have voted in every election and have always kept up with politics, if someone was to tell me that to be politically involved I have to join the army, I'd give them a big :fyou im goin to canada if they draft again or ill just go to med school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 a song this reminded me of... The Call Up (The Clash) It's up to you not to heed the call-up 'N' you must not act the way you were brought up Who knows the reasons why you have grown up? Who knows the plans or why they were drawn up? It's up to you not to heed the call-up I don't wanna die! It's up to you not to hear the call-up I don't wanna kill! For he who will die Is he who will kill Maybe I wanna see the wheatfields Over Kiev and down to the sea All the young people down the ages They gladly marched off to die Proud city fathers used to watch them Tears in their eyes There is a rose that I want to live for Although, God knows, I may not have met her There is a dance an' I should be with her There is a town - unlike any other It's up to you not to hear the call-up 'N' you must not act the way you were brought up Who give you work an' why should you do it? At fifty five minutes past eleven There is a rose... Yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 im goin to canada if they draft again or ill just go to med school I'd be right behind ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'd be right behind ya. our forces are still strong there wont be a draft we have so many reserves and arms that there is probally even no reason to be discussing this we havent even lost 1000 men yet do you really think our forces are that small??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Everything is done by technology these days so we wouldn't need large numbers of troops like in the past. The U.S. would just drop some bombs and missiles, while killing innocent civilians, then send small numbers of troops in to get what the bombs and missiles can't. And by small numbers I mean compared to the numbers of troops for the World Wars. We'd still be sending too many if ya ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 if we send millions of pounds of weed around the world i promise you there would be no fighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 if we send millions of pounds of weed around the world i promise you there would be no fighting This one's destined for the quotes of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Everything is done by technology these days so we wouldn't need large numbers of troops like in the past. Everything might be done by technology............in about 200 years. For now we must have American soldiers risking their lives while that s*** hole called Iraq is rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 No way. Look at our army now. Strong and motivated. Why? Cause theyre volunteers! Theyve decided on their own free will to do what theyre doing and for that reason they have motivation. Look at Vietnam and look at Gulf War II. Vietnam was an army of draftees. It could be considered our most poorly fought war to date. They had no wish to be there and it showed. Now Gulf War II was carried out by volunteers. We marched to Bagdad in what, 21 days or something like that? Thats great, to be able to take control of a foreign nations capital against the will of the world in less than a month. Howd we do it? Volunteers! Finally, after umtheenth replys did someone get it right. The military doesn't want a draft because it feels, and rightly so, that with a volunteer force we get people who are professionals and want to be there and can be screened so we get the best people for the job. I sure as hell dont want a draft back because I dont want to have to lead troops who are going to do nothing but whine about how they were forced into the service and dont want to be there. The all-volunteer force gives us strong, motivated, patriotic people and there is no reason to change that unless the sky starts falling and we face an 21st century Nazi Germany type threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 For everyone who feels this is a "free country" and mandated service would be wrong, I have a question. Do you have any responsibilty to your country? A country that provides your safety, guarantees a safety net of food, clothing, and shelter, provides education opportunities, career opportunities, and more freedoms than have ever been enjoyed before? Is it a one sided arrangement? We all have a *right* to take; but no responsibility to give? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 For everyone who feels this is a "free country" and mandated service would be wrong, I have a question. Do you have any responsibilty to your country? A country that provides your safety, guarantees a safety net of food, clothing, and shelter, provides education opportunities, career opportunities, and more freedoms than have ever been enjoyed before? Is it a one sided arrangement? We all have a *right* to take; but no responsibility to give? Its really sad but too many folks take America for granted thats why I have so much respect for anyone who's willing to raise their right hand and make a sacrifice for America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Finally, after umtheenth replys did someone get it right. The military doesn't want a draft because it feels, and rightly so, that with a volunteer force we get people who are professionals and want to be there and can be screened so we get the best people for the job. I sure as hell dont want a draft back because I dont want to have to lead troops who are going to do nothing but whine about how they were forced into the service and dont want to be there. The all-volunteer force gives us strong, motivated, patriotic people and there is no reason to change that unless the sky starts falling and we face an 21st century Nazi Germany type threat. Nuke, Aren't there volunteers who joined and in 6 minutes or 6 months knew it wasn't for them? You have soldiers now who don't want to be there, who are whining, wanting to go home. The military has a long history of effectively dealing with that. I spent a long time working near Great Lakes NAS, aka Great Mistakes, I know a lot of volunteers did not volunteer, they saw no other way out of their situation. They were told they would "see the world" and found the view from the boiler room looked the same in Hawaii as it did in the Ivory Coast. While volunteers are usually better, the screening process doesn't do a fool proof weeding out of the over the top mercenary types who are likely to get you shot and themselves. I know one young man who is leaving later this month for service. He has repeate,d over and over again, that the greatest thing is to die for your country in war. I tried to explain that the object of war isn't to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his. I fear at some point he's going to committ suicide by enemy fire. I doubt too many draftees would share that feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Nuke, it seems your fellow comrades arent too supportive of re-enlisting in the army. Here are excerpts from an AOL article: At a checkpoint on the barren plain east of Baqouba, word of a new U.S. Army plan to pay soldiers up to $10,000 to re-enlist evoked laughter from a few bored-looking troopers ''Man, they can't pay me enough to stay here,'' said a 23-year-old specialist from the Army's 4th Infantry Division as he manned the checkpoint with Iraqi police outside this city 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. Back-to-back wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have stretched the Army thin. Nearly two-thirds of its active duty brigade-sized units are deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. When the troops currently in Iraq rotate out this spring, the U.S. plans to lean heavily on the National Guard and Reserves for replacements. The Pentagon said Wednesday that the number of U.S. military reservists called to active duty jumped by more than 10,000 in the past week. ''What we're trying to do is to manage the force now so that we don't have a falloff in recruitment or retention a year from now, and then have a gap where we have to scramble to rectify that,'' Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday. Listen to how idiotic these Iraqis are....... At the checkpoint outside Baqouba, the 23-year-old specialist, who refused to give his name saying he feared retribution from military higher-ups, stubbed out a cigarette on the side of a Humvee. As he began to speak, he was interrupted by the blast of a Kalashnikov rifle a few yards up the road. An Iraqi policeman fired the rounds in a mound of dirt for no apparent reason. ''You see what I have to put up with?'' asked the soldier. With two months left in a 12-month tour, ''there's not enough money in the world to make me stay a month longer.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Its really sad but too many folks take America for granted thats why I have so much respect for anyone who's willing to raise their right hand and make a sacrifice for America. Hey!! I went to jury duty!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 For everyone who feels this is a "free country" and mandated service would be wrong, I have a question. Do you have any responsibilty to your country? A country that provides your safety, guarantees a safety net of food, clothing, and shelter, provides education opportunities, career opportunities, and more freedoms than have ever been enjoyed before? Is it a one sided arrangement? We all have a *right* to take; but no responsibility to give? Tex, That's why I feel there should be other options included in the draft (and yes, I think women should be included in the draft--if not to the actual front, but then to other areas). Like Winodj mentioned. Civil Service, or humanitarian aid options, something like that. There is so much more to war than fighting--stuff I never even realized until recently. So, to proper, and decently, wage a just war we need people with many talents. If the government asked (even though I'm looking at, hopefully, 4 or 5 more years of school) I would go to serve in the form of humanitarian aid. Or do a desk job here. Again, I don't think it ever will be re-instated, but it would change our society entirely if it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 For everyone who feels this is a "free country" and mandated service would be wrong, I have a question. Do you have any responsibilty to your country? A country that provides your safety, guarantees a safety net of food, clothing, and shelter, provides education opportunities, career opportunities, and more freedoms than have ever been enjoyed before? Is it a one sided arrangement? We all have a *right* to take; but no responsibility to give? We should all be thankful for those who put their bodies on the line in World War 1, World War 2, and the Vietnam War to giv us all the future that we hav today. If it came down to a situation were there was a war on and my country needed me, I would join the fight because we were all given the chacne to hav peace and that rite should not be taken away from us. Hopefully the situation in North Korea doesn't explode so we won't hav to deal with things like this for a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 it would if they end up dying. I'm not gonna be told to go kill other people by anyone, unless God pays me a visit and asks me to. But I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. you can end up dying in college too...it wouldnt surprise me at all if the risk was greater in college than in the military Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 you can end up dying in college too...it wouldnt surprise me at all if the risk was greater in college than in the military I'd have to 100% disagree with this statement. How the hell is going to classes more dangerous than being in the military. We have soldiers dying everyday over in Iraq. I'd imagine it'd be even worse if it came to a point where we were drafting inexperienced soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'd have to 100% disagree with this statement. How the hell is going to classes more dangerous than being in the military. We have soldiers dying everyday over in Iraq. I'd imagine it'd be even worse if it came to a point where we were drafting inexperienced soldiers. you dont think college kids die everyday too???from binge drinking..drunk driving acidents..drug abuse..natural causes...whatever...my point is you can die just as easily walking out your door as being in the military.. i served 7 years in the army and personally witnessed one death..non related to military action...ive seen more death since i got out...vast majority of soldiers over the years never even come close to seeing combat...that actually becomes a problem at times because you get to a point where the entire military has no combat experience whatsoever...then if you have to go war you have no experienced leaders... so im of the opinion that your life can be derailed just as easily at college , work , at play as in the military Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Nuke, it seems your fellow comrades arent too supportive of re-enlisting in the army. Here are excerpts from an AOL article: Listen to how idiotic these Iraqis are....... Despite the war and all the other crap thats going on retention has not changed very much at all. People who were going to stay in anyway still are and people who were going to get out anyway also are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 you dont think college kids die everyday too???from binge drinking..drunk driving acidents..drug abuse..natural causes...whatever...my point is you can die just as easily walking out your door as being in the military.. i served 7 years in the army and personally witnessed one death..non related to military action...ive seen more death since i got out...vast majority of soldiers over the years never even come close to seeing combat...that actually becomes a problem at times because you get to a point where the entire military has no combat experience whatsoever...then if you have to go war you have no experienced leaders... so im of the opinion that your life can be derailed just as easily at college , work , at play as in the military Considering I don't drink or do drugs, I'd say my chances of dying would be much higher in the military. Natural Causes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Considering I don't drink or do drugs, I'd say my chances of dying would be much higher in the military. Natural Causes? well im f***ed then i drink like a fish, but dont smoke anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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