Guest williestokes Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 No way. Look at our army now. Strong and motivated. Why? Cause theyre volunteers! Theyve decided on their own free will to do what theyre doing and for that reason they have motivation. Look at Vietnam and look at Gulf War II. Vietnam was an army of draftees. It could be considered our most poorly fought war to date. They had no wish to be there and it showed. Now Gulf War II was carried out by volunteers. We marched to Bagdad in what, 21 days or something like that? Thats great, to be able to take control of a foreign nations capital against the will of the world in less than a month. Howd we do it? Volunteers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I should add, if there was a WWII type war, I wouldn't run, in that instance the draft would be necessary and I'd do my part and fight. But for the reasons of making young people politically better or more motivated or whatever else weak reason there is, I say hell no. I'm damn motivated and I personally don't want to spend a year in the military or civil service or anything else just to prove that. The 7 to 8 years its going to take me to graduate college and get my JD/MBA will be plenty long and having to add another year on top of that, screw that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I'm definately against the draft. As the argument has probably been repeated throughout the therad, why initiate the draft for a war that has NO effect on our national security. I'm beginning not to give a f*** what goes in in Iraq...let them govern themselves. If another radical establishment runs itself into Iraq let the middle east deal with it. Being 18 yrs old, I would be eligible for the draft. College education will not exempt anyone; in the event there was a draft I would be able to complete the remaining semester of college and then my ass would be shipped out to Iraq. In the 70's, my dad was drafted during the Vietnam war and served 2 years (was honorably discharged after being injured). From his standpoint, a veteran of war, he ABSOLUTELY disagrees with the draft. When you come home and learn your best friend was killed it tends to change your view on the topic. Sidenote to add: Women are not exempt from being drafted in this war. And Canada is not going to just allow draft-dodgers to take refuge in their country. So you better watch out Sideshowapu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 No. This is a free country and people don't need to be forced into the military. That should be someones right to chose. If we run out of willing bodies, we may not be free for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If we run out of willing bodies, we may not be free for long. But wouldnt Bush know that bringing back the draft means certain death in public opinion? And of all people, he dodged the draft himself. All I know is Bush will stay clear of the d-word during his re-election period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 No way. Look at our army now. Strong and motivated. Why? Cause theyre volunteers! Theyve decided on their own free will to do what theyre doing and for that reason they have motivation. Look at Vietnam and look at Gulf War II. Vietnam was an army of draftees. It could be considered our most poorly fought war to date. They had no wish to be there and it showed. Now Gulf War II was carried out by volunteers. We marched to Bagdad in what, 21 days or something like that? Thats great, to be able to take control of a foreign nations capital against the will of the world in less than a month. Howd we do it? Volunteers! Willie, It is difficult making statements that compare Vietnam with any other US war. First off there wasn't a unified America back home, that made a big difference. In Vietnam we had tours of duty. Finish your tour and go home. In WW2 is was go until you get the job done. There is a population of military men and women who joined because of a lack of options in their lives. They aren't as gun ho as you might imagine. They were hoping for 6 years of peace, learn a trade, move on. Vietnam was hampered by political factors we didn't face in Gulf War 1 or 2. The enemy could run into Cambodia and stick their tongues at us and we were ordered not to go after them. We tried to fight the war on two fronts, in SE Asia and at home. We made some stupid decisions to try and get a majority of the American public on the war side. The Soviet Union actually was an empire and we had to be careful of pissing them off enough to send man along with the weapons and strategy aid they were already. THere is a difference between volunteering for a war like happened in droves during WW2 and joining the military to learn computers and finding yourself in a sandstorm 3000 miles from home with women and children trying to either feed you or kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yes, yes it should. And remember, this is coming from a 16 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 We tried to fight the war on two fronts, in SE Asia and at home. We made some stupid decisions to try and get a majority of the American public on the war side Stupid decisions include the draft. Another could be ignoring veterans looking for work after Vietnam. But back to the present..... support for this war is slipping. Americans don't want to hear about their own soldiers being killed every day. Every month that goes by, support for Bush continues to slip. If he wasn't so stubborn in his "resolve" our soldies would be home right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Ignoring the vets would ahve been a step up in many cases. Getting spit on and worse was a tragic event for many of these young men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yes, yes it should. And remember, this is coming from a 16 year old. Do.....you have any reasons to back up your well thought out opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Do.....you have any reasons to back up your well thought out opinion. Do I need reasons? I didn't think so, but if you want them- fine. I consider it a privelage to live in the US. If the US needs fighters to keep the US as great as it is, take them!!! If it means I must put my life on the line to keep this country great, so be it! I don't want the lives of my family being tortured by anyone if we would lose a war. Since I consider it a privelage to live here, I think sometimes we need to give something back. If the US gets into trouble with another country, and need our help, they should be able to recieve it, in this case, a draft. People say they don't want their Freedom of Choice infiltrated, well, if you don't like the draft so much, move to Switzerland or something, where there are few wars. It's your choice to- you can. But I'd still rather live in this great country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Dunno what the situation is up there but down here Army numbers are the best they've been for quite a while I think so we certainly don't need 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 People say they don't want their Freedom of Choice infiltrated thank you yahtzee for the post it is as you say there is no such thing as a free lunch nor is this a free country nothing is free, especially America it has been purchased at great cost to say "it would interrupt my life" is to place self over country the question is, what do you value most: a year or two in the job market or service where our county needs you the answer is everything whether it is in military service or a peace witness in Palestine or a civil rights worker in Selma or a student at Kent State or on an airplane in Pennsylvania - what would you give your for? what would you give you life for? Jesus said, greater love has no person than this, to lay down one's life - what will you give your life - alive or dead - for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Jesus said, greater love has no person than this, to lay down one's life - Non Sequitur alert: See Link Below I don't know why, but I thought of this. I think it's a funny shirt. (Easily offended people DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK. People with a sense of humor, Click Away. You have been warned.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 hehee, that is kinda funny. but sooooooo wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 move to Switzerland or something, where there are few wars. It's your choice to- you can. Yahtzee, you're a good free thinking young man. But just so you know every man in Switzerland must either serve in the reserve or pay higher taxes for the rest of his life. Most men choose to serve--that might have something to do with their low involvement in wars. Well, that or their dynamite strapped bridges that come into the country. Or their Nazi gold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yahtzee, you're a good free thinking young man. But just so you know every man in Switzerland must either serve in the reserve or pay higher taxes for the rest of his life. Most men choose to serve--that might have something to do with their low involvement in wars. Well, that or their dynamite strapped bridges that come into the country. Or their Nazi gold... Yeah I was just trying to think of a spur the moment country that always pretty much kept to themselves during wars. Switzerland came to mind first. But, as you said, since Switzerland has little involvement in wars, having to serve in their reserve should be no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Yeah I was just trying to think of a spur the moment country that always pretty much kept to themselves during wars. Switzerland came to mind first. But, as you said, since Switzerland has little involvement in wars, having to serve in their reserve should be no big deal. Don't worry Yahtzee, Switzerland would prob be the first country to come into my mind as well. But most countries in Europe seem to hav one year of compulsary military service like Finland and Russia I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If the US needs fighters to keep the US as great as it is, take them!!! How in the world can anything that happens in Iraq effect daily life here in the US. Overlooking the belief of this nation that Iraq has been developing WMD programs, whether Iraq governs itself.......or launches into total anarchy you won't notice the slightest difference from here in America. Now go back on my original post if you think I'm lying, but with the Iraq war I disagree with a draft because it has not effect our national security. That doesn't mean I disagree with with ever circumstance warranting a draft. If our country was ever under a threat of being attacked I would have no problem in being drafted. If it means I must put my life on the line to keep this country great, so be it! Yahtzee......being drafted to fight in Iraq is worth putting your life on the line? For what, so some Iraqis (that dont want us there) can live in a democracy? f*** EM, don't care how politically incorrect or ignorant that sounds. For our soldiers that are over there and believe in the cause of rebuilding Iraq I give them all my respect. They voluntered to fight for our country and must follow their decision, no matter where it takes them. I supported our governments case on invading/liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein. Rebuilding is an essential part of finishing our business and it was clear from Bush the US would not abandon the Iraqi people. But are we going to have soldiers in the country for the next 20 years "rebuilding"? Iraq will always be volitale, and there will always be terrorists willing to kill US soldiers. We did our job in Iraq, now its time to bring our soldiers home and let them Iraqis begin their lives. I don't want the lives of my family being tortured by anyone if we would lose a war A little extreme to say that. Once again, I must affirm I don't disagree with a draft if Its under the proper circumstances. I doubt your family would be tortured if US troops would return from Iraq. if you don't like the draft so much, move to Switzerland or something, where there are few wars If you choose to blindly follow the draft with the mentality that you "owe your country" then I suggest you move to China. They have a great army (the largest in the world) and military service is mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Just to clear a few things up, I know that the Iraq war would have no effect on us, but say something like a World War III, that could have some serious effects. If WWIII breaks out, I'll be ready to go to fight for my country. That doesn't mean I disagree with with ever circumstance warranting a draft. If our country was ever under a threat of being attacked I would have no problem in being drafted. That's basically what I said. I nowhere mentioned agreeing to a draft for the current war, although I seemed to have misunderstood the original purpose of the topic, I took it as, "should there ever be a draft, ever again?", and said yes. Should there be a draft right now for the war in Iraq? No. But, if this does somehow break into something big scale, with lots of world powers becoming involved, then yes, start it up. Sorry for the misunderstanding, Flash, but in my whole posts I meant something more larger scale then the Iraqi War, something that could be a threat to our homeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Sorry for the misunderstanding, Flash, but in my whole posts I meant something more larger scale then the Iraqi War, something that could be a threat to our homeland. No problem. I had no concern with you disagreeing with me (as I initially thought) but was curious as to you reasons for supporting a draft. Didnt mean to come off as an ass with the "well thought out" part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 thank you yahtzee for the post it is as you say there is no such thing as a free lunch nor is this a free country nothing is free, especially America it has been purchased at great cost to say "it would interrupt my life" is to place self over country the question is, what do you value most: a year or two in the job market or service where our county needs you the answer is everything whether it is in military service or a peace witness in Palestine or a civil rights worker in Selma or a student at Kent State or on an airplane in Pennsylvania - what would you give your for? what would you give you life for? Jesus said, greater love has no person than this, to lay down one's life - what will you give your life - alive or dead - for? I didn't realize that the apocalypse was upon us and that they need my services. If it were the case, I'd join. By the way, were you in the military? NO one is going to tell me that just cause I'm 20 I need to join the army. If there was a time where it was necessary, your damn right I'd do my part, but right now isn't the time. Heck, if we had this huge drafted army right now, its just give the US more reason to invade a ton of other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 there are pro and cons on this question but i voted yes... one big problem is an army that is made up of draftees is never as motivated as one that is strickly volunteer...our preparedness and professionalism as soldiers is exponetionally better now than it was during the vietnam or any other era...so if we did institute a draft i see that as a major problem and something would have to be done to ensure our moral didnt suffer... but i think the positives outweigh the one big negative listed above...putting aside all the arguements listed above in others posts, which were very good on both sides, i feel we all have a responsibility to sacrifice a little of all the benefits we have recieved (alot of which has been paid by the blood of many great americans who came before us to give us all the opportunities that most take for granted nowadays) to ensure the country stays strong and prosperous...15 months to 2 years of service in the military would not permanently derail anyone from acheiving their goals in life...i would tend to argue that it probably would help most in the long run...there is a reason why most employers give preference to ex- military..you learn real leadership and teamwork....things you cant learn out of a book in college... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 seeing how the U.S. is not in any direct danger i say no get our troops out of there if we are running thin, iraq has never once attacked the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 15 months to 2 years of service in the military would not permanently derail anyone from acheiving their goals in life it would if they end up dying. I'm not gonna be told to go kill other people by anyone, unless God pays me a visit and asks me to. But I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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